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Old 04-06-2017, 05:28 PM
SOTVEN SOTVEN is offline
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HELLO ALL. NEW MEMBER, AND I CAN NOT FIGURE OUT HOW TO SEARCH IF THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN BROUGHT UP BEFORE. HAS ANY OF YOU STRIPPED AN ALLOY FRAME OF A 3RD GEN FROM ITS FINISH, EITHER WITH BLASTING OR WITH CHEMICALS, OR ANY OTHER WAY? IF SO, DID YOU FIND IT NECESSARY TO ANODIZE IT AGAIN AFTERWARDS, OR DID YOU LEAVE IT LIKE THAT? IN OTHER WORDS, ASSUMING THAT A FINISH IS SO HORIBLY, BADLY WORN, AND ONE WANTS TO REMOVE IT ALL TOGETHER, WOULD IT BE OK FOR THE BARE ALLOY FRAME TO BE LEFT IN THE WHITE, OR WOULD IT DECAY WITHOUT ITS FORMER FINISH? THANX IN ADVANCE!
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Old 04-06-2017, 05:41 PM
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It will oxidize over and get dull.
The best way in my opinion to refinish one is to send it to reputable place that does a cerrakote or that type of finish.
You get the nice appearance plus durability.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:43 PM
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Don't really have anything for you on your topic but I can say this CAP LOCK

Friends don't let friends buy Taurus.
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:53 PM
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You might look into Alodine chromate conversion. Although I have not tried it on frames, I would if in your situation.
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Old 04-07-2017, 08:06 AM
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CERAKOTE MIGHT BE THE WAY TO GO PERHAPS. ALODINE??? I HAD NEVER HEARD OF THAT BEFORE! I LOOKED INTO IT, AND A THREAD FROM THE PAST CAME TO MY MIND,(PERHAPS IN THIS FORUM) WHERE A GUY HAD COME ACROSS A 6906 WITH A GOLDISH FRAME THAT HE COULD NOT UNDO, NOR SPECULATE WTH IT WAS!! HMMM... I AM THINKING NOW, THIS MIGHT HAD BEEN A CASE OF ALODINE APPLICATION. THANX FOR THE HEADS UP FRIENDS! AMCLINE 82, SORRY FOR THE CAPITALS, MY KEYBOARD DOES NOT DO LOWERCASE IN LATIN FOR SOME REASON, UNLESS I COPY PASTE THEM ONE BY ONE. SORRY.
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:35 AM
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Default Cerakote results

I picked up a police trade in 6906 that was a little rough. I had it cerakoted in "midnight bronze" by a local guy here and couldn't be more pleased with the results.

ALLOY FRAMES-img_0435-jpg ALLOY FRAMES-img_0438-jpg

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Old 05-07-2017, 01:29 PM
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Stripping an anodized aluminum alloy frame of the anodized layer can cause catastrophic failure of the frame. During the process of anodizing the frame, some of the alloy is converted to aluminum oxide. The oxide layer is hard, while the underlying alloy is relatively soft. Removing the oxide layer by mechanical means is dangerous as once the hard oxide layer is breached, the underlying soft alloy can be eroded quite quickly. Using a chemical stripper can also cause a failure of the frame. Anodizing the frame again will cause more of the alloy to be converted to the hard aluminum oxide and may not leave enough metal to not structurally compromise the frame.

If the frame must be refinished, something like CeraKote is not too bad.
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Old 05-07-2017, 03:06 PM
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I bought this 469 9mm from a friend several years ago. Never asked him how he stripped the finish off, but it has not dulled, and I am quite happy with it. It is some type of aluminum frame.

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Old 05-14-2017, 03:43 PM
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I bought this 469 9mm from a friend several years ago. Never asked him how he stripped the finish off, but it has not dulled, and I am quite happy with it. It is some type of aluminum frame.

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE IN MIND DOING WITH MY WORN 5904 FRAME, FRIEND. THE GUY I TALKED TO DOES ALL SORTS OF STRIPPING FROM MAGNESIUM TO ALUMINUM ALLOYS. HE SAYS AFTER THE GLASS BLASTING, HE CAN RESEAL IT, BUT HE DOES NOT CONSIDER IT NECESSARY, AS HIS 10+ YEARS IN THIS BUSINESS SHOWS THAT THERE IS NO SUCH NEED. HIS WORK IS MOSTLY AUTOMOTIVE COMPONENTS, FOR LAND AND MARINE ENGINE PARTS, ANTIQUE CLEANUPS, AND PREETY MUCH ANYTHING THAT NEEDS MEDIA BLASTING FROM TINY THINGS TO STATUES AND CASTLE WALLS. I TOO AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE ANODIZING GOING AWAY. WILL THINK ABOUT IT, AND PERHAPS STAY AWAY FROM THE RAILS, AND OFCOURSE THE INSIDE OF THE FRAME WHERE ALL FRICTION OCCURES. THANX EVERYONE!
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Old 05-14-2017, 04:33 PM
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As an engineer I took a materials science class or two.
It is true that the anodized surface is a form of color-enhanced oxidization and that it is harder than the metal underneath.

HOWEVER, removing that surface layer - which is only a couple of molecules thick - will not in and of itself weaken the piece of metal. If you sand or sand blast away a significant layer of metal, then sure, that will weaken the piece. But removing the oxidization layer will not in and of itself weaken the metal.

After you remove the oxide layer, it will immediately begin to oxidize again. That is because we live in an atmosphere that contains 21% oxygen. Oxidization is simply the process of the oxygen molecules combining with the aluminum molecules to form aluminum oxide. It is the aluminum version of rust (iron oxide).

Where oxidized aluminum is different from oxidized iron is that even after oxidization the aluminum molecules remain tightly bounded to the other aluminum molecules in the piece - so they stay put and form a barrier layer. With NORMAL iron rust, the oxidized iron molecules lose their molecular attraction (cohesion) to the other iron molecules when they bond with oxygen - and that allows them to and flake off - leaving fresh iron atoms exposed to the air - which then also oxidize and flake off. This will continue until the piece of iron is eroded away one molecule at a time.

As we have all read, bluing is a form of rust - or oxidization. Where it is different than normal rust is that it is done with chemicals in a solution - creating a controlled environment (instead of randomly by the atmosphere) and it bonds a layer of other molecules (from the chemicals used in the solution) to the surface of the iron to keep it from flaking off and exposing fresh un-oxidized iron underneath.

So, all of that is to say that if you can remove just the anodized or oxidized layer from the aluminum WITHOUT removing a significant amount of metal, you won't weaken it and a natural oxide layer will rapidly form restoring the hardened surface and corrosion resistance. I would think bead blasting would be about the best way to gently remove the anodizing while removing the bare minimum amount of aluminum.

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Old 05-14-2017, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
As an engineer I took a materials science class or two.

I would think bead blasting would be about the best way to gently remove the anodizing while removing the bare minimum amount of aluminum.
UNLIKE YOU MY FRIEND, I AM NO ENGINEER OF ANY SORT. HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY. MY BIGEST QUESTION ABOUT REMOVING ANODIZING HAS BEEN: THE PISTOL IN ITS CURRENT STATE, HAS BARE ALLOY SHOWING ON ALL ITS FRAME EDGES AND AT RANDOM POINTS LIKE THE FRONT STRAP. THAT IS WEAR THAT HAS OCCURED FROM ITS 30 YEAR SERVICE, AND NOT FROM ANY SORT OF ABNORMAL ABUSE. ALSO, THE SLIDE RAILS ON THE FRAME ARE WORN CLEAN (NOT BLACK ANYMORE) FROM THE SLIDE RECIPROCATING. DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE FRAME HAS BECOME WEAKER BY MERE USE??? I ALSO AGREE THAT REMOVING TOO MUCH OF ANY MATERIAL WILL CAUSE ISSUES. BUT IF REMOVING MERELY WHAT A HOLSTER MAMAGED TO REMOVE, HOW WEAKER COULD IT GET? PROBABLY NOT MUCH?
ANYHOW, I AM LEANING TOWARDS TO DOING IT. SO, MOST PROBABLY I WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED WITH THE OUTCOME. THANX FOR THE INSIGHT FRIEND.
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:40 PM
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Remove the anodize and do with it what you want. The anodize coating figures nothing in the strength of the frame as manufactured.
Dispite it's harder than hell descriptors, it scratches right thru with the simplest of implements and minimum of effort. Holster abrasion wears it off as quick as anything as does simple handling.

If the missing anodize compromised the strength of the frame or component and made it/them unsafe to use,,then every one of them that has been hand stamp marked with a Dept or some Country's Armed Forces or Security Div marking would be a wall hanger.
Plus every engraved aluminum framed gun, cut thru the couple of 10/.000" surface or stripped of it and then engraved would surely fail from the stress fractures introduced by the scroll work.

I just re-blued the bbls on an alloy framed (Dural) German mfg O/U shotgun. Deeply engraved and never coated with anything this pre-WW2 mfg shotgun looks as good as the day it was made. The frame hasn't fallen to pieces yet.

Don't over think this stuff IMO. I wouldn't remove any more mat'l than necessary of course on the pistol to avoid loose fitting, but the whisp of an anodize coating surely won't bother things.

Any I have worked over and polished up have stayed brite afterwards. I'm sure you could expose it to salt water and other stuff and get it to look like an old screen door,,but a blued gun wouldn't fair much better. Neither will an anodized one if there is the tiniest of flaws in the coating and the oxidizing agent can get at the base metal.
JMO of course.
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Old 05-14-2017, 05:41 PM
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UNLIKE YOU MY FRIEND, I AM NO ENGINEER OF ANY SORT. HOWEVER, I WOULD LIKE TO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU SAY. MY BIGEST QUESTION ABOUT REMOVING ANODIZING HAS BEEN: THE PISTOL IN ITS CURRENT STATE, HAS BARE ALLOY SHOWING ON ALL ITS FRAME EDGES AND AT RANDOM POINTS LIKE THE FRONT STRAP. THAT IS WEAR THAT HAS OCCURED FROM ITS 30 YEAR SERVICE, AND NOT FROM ANY SORT OF ABNORMAL ABUSE. ALSO, THE SLIDE RAILS ON THE FRAME ARE WORN CLEAN (NOT BLACK ANYMORE) FROM THE SLIDE RECIPROCATING. DOES THIS MEAN THAT THE FRAME HAS BECOME WEAKER BY MERE USE??? I ALSO AGREE THAT REMOVING TOO MUCH OF ANY MATERIAL WILL CAUSE ISSUES. BUT IF REMOVING MERELY WHAT A HOLSTER MAMAGED TO REMOVE, HOW WEAKER COULD IT GET? PROBABLY NOT MUCH?
ANYHOW, I AM LEANING TOWARDS TO DOING IT. SO, MOST PROBABLY I WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED WITH THE OUTCOME. THANX FOR THE INSIGHT FRIEND.
I think it unlikely that the amount of wear it has experienced has significantly weakened it in any way. They are designed to experience wear and still remain strong enough to function safely.

An essential principle of mechanical design is to build any machine with a safety factor of making it a minimum of 25% - 100% stronger than it actually needs to be in order to withstand the stresses it is expected to be subjected to.

Guns are no different. IIRC the normal "proof loads" for firearms are 150% of SAAMI max pressure for a given caliber - and quality modern firearms are designed to withstand that as a minimum.

So I think it very unlikely that your gun is worn to the point of being unsafe, and even more unlikely that you would weaken it enough to make it unsafe by removing the finish.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:03 PM
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I have done at least 10 Colt and Star lowers on Commanders and PDs. I glass beaded the black off and shot them with clear poly. Never any problem of any kind.
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:05 PM
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Remove the anodize and do with it what you want. The anodize coating figures nothing in the strength of the frame as manufactured.
Dispite it's harder than hell descriptors, it scratches right thru with the simplest of implements and minimum of effort. Holster abrasion wears it off as quick as anything as does simple handling.

If the missing anodize compromised the strength of the frame or component and made it/them unsafe to use,,then every one of them that has been hand stamp marked with a Dept or some Country's Armed Forces or Security Div marking would be a wall hanger.
Plus every engraved aluminum framed gun, cut thru the couple of 10/.000" surface or stripped of it and then engraved would surely fail from the stress fractures introduced by the scroll work.
ARE COLT M4 MADE WITH ALLOY RECEIVERS? I DO NOT KNOW REALLY, BUT LAST YEAR WE HAPPENED TO CO-PARADE WITH SOME SPECIAL FORCES UNITS. THEIR M4 HAD SOME REMAINS OF ORIGINAL FINISH ONLY IN THE DEEPEST CREVICES, WHILE THE REST WAS A DULL/SHINY PATINA. IF THEY ARE INDEED ALLOYS, THEN I GUESS THAT IS ANOTHER TESTAMENT TO WHAT YOU SAY MY FRIEND. AND YES, THAT BLACK FRAME ANODIZING (OR BLACK COLOR IN GENERAL IF YOU MAY ON THE 5904) SEEMS TO HAVE GONE AWAY BY SCRATCHING ON THE FRONT STRAP FROM RUBING AGAINST A WEDDING RING??
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:09 PM
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I have done at least 10 Colt and Star lowers on Commanders and PDs. I glass beaded the black off and shot them with clear poly. Never any problem of any kind.

"ALEA IACTA EST!" ANOTHER S&W IS ABOUT TO GO FRAME NAKED! LOL! EXPECT PICTURES BEFORE JUNE! LOL! THANK YOU ALL FOR YOUR HELP FRIENDS!
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Old 05-14-2017, 06:13 PM
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I think it unlikely that the amount of wear it has experienced has significantly weakened it in any way. They are designed to experience wear and still remain strong enough to function safely.

An essential principle of mechanical design is to build any machine with a safety factor of making it a minimum of 25% - 100% stronger than it actually needs to be in order to withstand the stresses it is expected to be subjected to.

Guns are no different. IIRC the normal "proof loads" for firearms are 150% of SAAMI max pressure for a given caliber - and quality modern firearms are designed to withstand that as a minimum.

So I think it very unlikely that your gun is worn to the point of being unsafe, and even more unlikely that you would weaken it enough to make it unsafe by removing the finish.
ANYHOW, NOT ONLY WHAT YOU SAY MAKES SENSE IN MY HEAD, BUT FURTHERMORE, THIS BLASTING TECHNITIAN SAID HE WILL START WITH THE LEAST ABRASIVE MEDIUM HE HAS (I THINK WALNUT SHELL CRUMBS), AND WILL MOVE UP IF NEEDED. WILL KEEP YOU ALL POSTED. BY THE WAY, HE HAS REDONE A FILTHY TILOTSON CARBURATOR FROM AN ANCIENT CHAINSAW, AND HAS HAD IT ON HIS OFFICE 3 OR 4 YEARS NOW. THAT THING STILL LOOKS AS WHEN HE FIRST BLASTED IT.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:41 AM
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UPDATE!! HERA ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE FINISH CONDITION ON MY 5904 FRAME. ACTUALLY, THE PICTURES DONT LOOK AS BAD AS IT REALLY WAS.
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:46 AM
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AND HERE IS THE BASTED RESULT. THE GUY USED A MEDIUM THAT WAS NOT COARSER THAN THE HOUSEHOLD DUST. (OR THE HOUSEHOLD DUST THAT ACCUMULATES ON MY PLACE AT LEAST! LOL) THE WHOLE PROCESS TOOK 6 - 7 MINUTES FOR THE FRAME!
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Old 05-24-2017, 09:55 AM
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AS FOR THE ANODIZING GOING AWAY, I REALLY DO NOT KNOW WHAT TO TELL YOU. AS YOU MAY SEE FOR YOUR SELF, THE RED "FIRE" INDICATING DOTS ARE THERE INTACT! EVENTHOUGH THEY WERE NOT COVERED WITH ANYTHING! IF THE DROP OF PAINT MADE IT THROUGH BLASTING, AND THE ANODIZING DIDN'T, THEN I GUESS S&W SHOULD COAT THEIR ALUMINUM FRAMES IN THAT RED PAINT. ALSO, I HAD HIM HIT THE OLD BROKEN GRIP, AND YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE BLASTED SURFACE AND THE OLD WORN, (UNDER THE FINGER MARK.) FINALLY, SOME BITS THAT NEEDED A BIT OF SUPER BLUE HERE AND THERE. MORE PHOTOS SOON!!
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Old 05-24-2017, 07:35 PM
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Companies that do hard chrome plating of aluminum guns usually refuse to plate the frame.
The reason is that if a hard chrome layer gets dented the softer aluminum under the plating may dent enough to allow even hard chrome to chip or flake off a piece.

What they usually do is just bead blast the aluminum to match the hard chrome finish on the steel parts.
This has been done for a good many years to all sorts of aluminum framed revolvers and pistols with no adverse results I've ever heard of.

To keep the aluminum looking good keep it lightly coat it with a lube, just like you do a blued steel gun.
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Old 05-25-2017, 01:06 PM
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GETTING THERE, SLOWLY BUT SURELY... ALL NEW SPRINGS IN THE FRAME. NOW TO TACKLE THE SLIDE, IF I HAVE TIME THIS WEEKEND. THE RESULT LOOKS BETTER THAN I ANTICIPATED.
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Old 05-25-2017, 02:44 PM
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AS YOU MAY SEE FOR YOUR SELF, THE RED "FIRE" INDICATING DOTS ARE THERE INTACT! EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE NOT COVERED WITH ANYTHING! IF THE DROP OF PAINT MADE IT THROUGH BLASTING, AND THE ANODIZING DIDN'T, THEN I GUESS S&W SHOULD COAT THEIR ALUMINUM FRAMES IN THAT RED PAINT.
Worth repeating.
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Old 05-25-2017, 03:51 PM
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Hey SOTVEN, QUIT YELLING AND TURN OFF THE FRICK'N CAP LOCKS! Thank you.
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Old 05-25-2017, 04:47 PM
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Hey SOTVEN, QUIT YELLING AND TURN OFF THE FRICK'N CAP LOCKS! Thank you.
I AM TRYING TO RENEW AN OLD CLASSIC PISTOL HERE, AND I GET COMMENTS FOR MY CAPS LOCK. WAS THIS THE ONLY THING YOU SAW WORTH COMMENTING FOR FRIEND? FOR THE GAZILLIONTH TIME, MY KEYBOARD DOES NOT SWITCH TO LOWERCASE WHEN I TURN IT TO ENGLISH!!! Μπορώ όμως να γράψω Ελληνικά άμα θέλετε!! BESIDES, HOW CAN SOMEONE EVER YELL IN WRITTEN FORM??? GEEEZ!
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Old 05-25-2017, 06:33 PM
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Μπορώ όμως να γράψω Ελληνικά άμα θέλετε!!
Καλή ιδέα, αλλά ποιος θα το διάβαζε;
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:13 PM
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Hey SOTVEN, QUIT YELLING AND TURN OFF THE FRICK'N CAP LOCKS! Thank you.
Might not be a bad idea to read the whole thread before yelling back. He's explained two or three times already that he's in another country and not using an English keyboard. Just sayin'...
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Old 05-25-2017, 08:25 PM
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I've enjoyed this so far SOTVEN!

Looking forward to seeing it completed.
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