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Old 04-06-2017, 05:41 PM
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Default 22 mag out of a 617

So, I foolishly traded my 648 a few years back and miss the 22mag.

I've seen on another forum how one member installed a 22 mag cylinder assembly(with yoke and extractor) on his 617ND and was able to use 22 mag in the gun.

I can buy the whole assembly from Numrich.
Is there anything else one needs to be able to complete this?
Timing issues?

I have no interest in another gun, just looking to be able to switch to 22 mag should I want to.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:34 PM
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Should work, but cylinder would probably need some fitting and maybe a bit of timing work. Sometimes everything just goes together and works. Some times the yoke tube is to long and needs adjusted, if that happens you would have to install shims in the original cylinder assembly or the yoke tube might be a bit short and the new cylinder need a couple shims.
Then there is the barrel cylinder gap. Hopefully it come out in spec.,
If you get a brand new cylinder that was never in a gun it may need both head space and ratchet adjusted. Amazingly Most used cylinders time pretty well after everything else is taken care of.

Some people freak out at the idea of firing the slightly larger .224 bullet through a 22LR .222 bore, but I don't see a problem with it is something as robust as a K frame that can handle 357s. Guys shoot .454 bullets through .452 bores in the big throat 45 colts all the time. P. O. Ackley did some experiments shooting a .323 bullet down a .308 bore and found no increase in pressure as long as the chamber and throats were correct for the larger bullet. Thats a lot more oversized and a lot more pressure than a 22 mag.
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Old 04-06-2017, 06:42 PM
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You have received accurate information and I will reinforce that by saying you will have timing issues until you have the ratchets on both cylinders fitted to the hand and may well have a gap issue that needs corrected. A 22lr barrel is .223 and a 22mag barrel is .224. Ruger uses .224 barrels on their convertible models and usually one round is more accurate then the other.
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Old 04-06-2017, 07:02 PM
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I've had .22 Magnum cylinders fitted to my Model 35, 63, 17 and an 18...they work like a champ...very accurate and zero pressure issues.

I had a 6-shot 4" 617 for about a year and looked for a .22 Magnum cylinder for it...could not find one. A few weeks after I sold it a new one came up on ebay...and a couple of months later another one...

Bob




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Old 04-06-2017, 07:22 PM
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IMHO and experience 22 WRM works better thru a 22 LR barrel than it does thru the original 22 Mag barrel. It has been my experience that most 22LR pistol barrels run about 0.2235" bore diameter. I have two M 617s that are more accurate with 22 Mag than they are with 22 LR. I saw a M 17 with a 8" bbl that became an absolute tack driver with a 22 Mag cylinder and cartridges. ......
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Old 04-06-2017, 09:24 PM
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And .22 LR thru a .22 mag bbl, the accuracy suffers in a Smith? Larry
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Old 04-06-2017, 11:58 PM
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Default YES

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And .22 LR thru a .22 mag bbl, the accuracy suffers in a Smith? Larry
It certainly has in every 22 Mag that I ever saw with a 22 LR cylinder. The accuracy isn't too bad up close and personal, but get much beyond 40 or 50 ft. and the 22 LR goes down hill fast. I was very busy fitting 22 LR cylinders to M 48 and M 648s until the first M 617 came out and the light dawned on me that I was approaching the problem from the wrong end.

M 53s are generally fairly accurate with 22 LR, but that barrel is usually about 0.2225" in bore dia. ..............

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Old 04-07-2017, 12:07 PM
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Default Add another happy Mag shooter

Ladder 13, I too have had a M-648 cylinder fitted to my M-617 with great results, Big Cholla convinced me. My problem was finding the correct era cylinder for the M-617 I had, when the revolver and the cylinder were matched the fitting and timing went well and the results are very satisfying! Go For It!
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Old 04-07-2017, 12:54 PM
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The fitting and timing is critical for a successful conversion, if you are not familiar with doing it have a professional do the job....it will be worth the money to have it done right.
Gary
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Old 04-07-2017, 01:38 PM
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As has already been stated, the odds are against a drop in fit.

That being said, it is not too much work.

I usually just fit a second cylinder. I even did a convertible model 34

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Old 04-07-2017, 01:41 PM
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I have a 648 cylinder. It has the round extractor. Are there variations of the extractor on the 648 cylinder?
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:14 PM
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Default Good Question

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Originally Posted by Trooperdan View Post
I have a 648 cylinder. It has the round extractor. Are there variations of the extractor on the 648 cylinder?
It could boil down to "Dash" numbers. But, probably not, one learns to never say never when it comes to S&W past production. You would not want to take a newer cylinder for a M 617 and fit it to your frame. It can be done, but then your original cylinder wouldn't work. Stick with 'likes' when it comes to swapping in new cylinders.

The M 617 had the older style extractor assemble when introduced, but soon went to the new style "round" extractor and internal parts with what I believe became the M 617-1 or it might have been the -2. So, if you have a M 617 with the older style 'round' extractor star your M 648 could fit and work with a minimum of gunsmithing. .....
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Old 04-07-2017, 02:46 PM
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I have no interest in another gun...
What? Wait - are you sick or something? Anyone worth their salt is always interested in another gun!!!!
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Old 04-07-2017, 06:16 PM
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Default Same era is very crutial

The rest of the story: I had a M-617-1 with the round extractor, guide pins and all but the cylinders I ordered from Numrich were both later and non compatible (was originally going to have a .22LR reamed and then the M-648 cylinder) so I was forced to find another M-617 also a dash one but with the more square extractor and no guide pine under it. This was fitted and timed to the newer revolver for the final result. I'm not close to knowing what change the DASH 1 indicated but I had two dash ones and the cylinder extractors were different on each.
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Old 04-08-2017, 11:09 AM
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....as I said above when I sold my 617 two 648 cylinders came up for sale...just got notice from eBay on two more for sale... I'll find another one one day and it will be years before they come up for sale again...

Bob
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by smitholdtimer View Post
Ladder 13, I too have had a M-648 cylinder fitted to my M-617 with great results, Big Cholla convinced me. My problem was finding the correct era cylinder for the M-617 I had, when the revolver and the cylinder were matched the fitting and timing went well and the results are very satisfying! Go For It!
Hey Sam, it was you I was referring to . I'm going to try this out when I pick up the parts, if I fail, off to a gunsmith.
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Old 04-08-2017, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitholdtimer View Post
The rest of the story: I had a M-617-1 with the round extractor, guide pins and all but the cylinders I ordered from Numrich were both later and non compatible (was originally going to have a .22LR reamed and then the M-648 cylinder) so I was forced to find another M-617 also a dash one but with the more square extractor and no guide pine under it. This was fitted and timed to the newer revolver for the final result. I'm not close to knowing what change the DASH 1 indicated but I had two dash ones and the cylinder extractors were different on each.
Well, this gets more and more confusing! Different extractors on guns of the same dash number? And I don't understand how one cylinder would be incompatible doesn't the extractor just match the cylinder? Ignoring the fitting required for timing the new cylinder correctly.
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Old 04-08-2017, 05:58 PM
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Default Hello Trooper Dan

You think you are confused? My first M-617-1 must have been an early one which had the round extractor, guide pins under it. The Two New Cylinders I bought were both for later M-617's & M-648's. (Numrich had no more "Early Cylinders" and it wasn't denoted when ordering either.) Unless you get very lucky all you will find are the later type cylinders for sale so just be sure the extractor is square shaped with no guide pins on the revolver you hope to fit the cylinder to. If anyone continues to be confused I'll bring the revolver to the Symposium, with both cylinders where the explanation will be made much easier.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:34 PM
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From personal experience, the 10 shot cylinders are not capable of being reamed out to .22mag. There are clearance issues at the case head...
If anyone was thinking of trying that route.
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Old 05-07-2017, 07:53 PM
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Yup - been there, done that. I thought is would be cool to have a 10 shot .22 Mag. Bored out the chambers, everything went great until I tried to load and shoot it. Then the rims had interference when side by side, so ended up with a 5 shot .22 Mag.
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Old 05-07-2017, 09:46 PM
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Default A Little Research

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Yup - been there, done that. I thought is would be cool to have a 10 shot .22 Mag. Bored out the chambers, everything went great until I tried to load and shoot it. Then the rims had interference when side by side, so ended up with a 5 shot .22 Mag.
I did some research on this subject and found that with 90% of the 22 Mag ammo out there what you found is true. But, on inspection and careful measurement of 6 brands of 22 Mag I found that if one took several hundred individual Federal 22 Mags and measured all the rims with a good vernier mike there is about 20 to 25 % of the rims that are small enough to allow being chambered at the same time in a S&W 10 shot M 617 cylinder that has been re-chambered to 22 Mag. I thought that was too much sugar for a dime, so stopped right there with that experiment. I did find that the rim diameter of various 22 Mag depending on manufacturer varied far more than I would have guessed. I have thrown away my recorded notes, but seem to remember that one manufacturer varied from least to largest rim diameter by about 0.015" thru a sample of about 100 cartridges. ......

BTW; Tooguy, you still have a ten shot handgun. Some people I know regularly load 22 LR HV in 22 Mag chambers and get away with it. .... Just sayin'...........

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Old 05-08-2017, 06:27 AM
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Yup - been there, done that. I thought is would be cool to have a 10 shot .22 Mag. Bored out the chambers, everything went great until I tried to load and shoot it. Then the rims had interference when side by side, so ended up with a 5 shot .22 Mag.
So just ream out every other chamber and you can shoot both .22 Mag and .22LR without having to switch cylinders!

BANG...bang...BANG...bang...BANG...bang...BANG...bang.........
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:19 AM
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Nice idea Tom, but I already rechambered all 10. You always pay for your education one way or another.

Ancient Chinese Proverb I just made up - Experience is what you get right after you need it.
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:31 AM
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Interesting this thread came up as the other day I was wondering if my 63-5 could be rechambered in 22 mag. Would 8 shots of mag fit the J frame cylinder?
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Old 05-08-2017, 08:41 AM
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On the 10 shot, adjacent chambers are .280 center to center. The center to center distance would need to be more than the diameter of the largest cartridge head.

Last edited by Toolguy; 05-08-2017 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 05-08-2017, 09:10 AM
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OK..... I love the .22mag out of my CZ 452FS/mannlicher..... it's my favorite "walking in Penn's Woods" rifle.

But out of a 6inch barrel how does .22mag preform FPS/fpe vs a .22lr ?????



My favorite .22lr pest load is the CCI's Veclocitor ...... at 1093fps/140fpe ( Ballistics by the Inch) .......from a 6 inch barrel

Ballistics by the Inch rates the ..22magnum ......CCI Maxi-mag...... from a 6 inch barrel at 1575fps/ approx 200fpe.

Guess it might be worth looking for a .22 mag revolver
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Old 05-10-2017, 07:16 AM
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" Experience is what you get right after you need it."

One of the best Chinese proverbs that I have read! Thanks Toolguy, Rick.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:20 PM
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Glad to see this post. Bought pre-17 with a bulged bbl and wanted to make a 3" field gun out of it to carry hunting small game. Got a 4" model 53 barrel off Ebay. Since it has the barrel shroud, if I cut it to 3 1/2" it would look like a mini 27. Glad Big Cholla gave the bore diameter of the 53 barrels and said it would shoot OK. It's stamped 22 mag but the bore is smaller than the regular.22 mag barrels. On with the project, Larry
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:50 PM
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L

Go check out "Ballistics by the inch" at 3-3.5 inches ...... is the .22mag really any better than a good .22lr ? Is the custom build worth the cost???

Maybe.......
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:52 PM
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I'm watching this thread closely.
I have an 8 3/8" 17 that I would love having a mag cylinder for.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:06 PM
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Glad to see this post. Bought pre-17 with a bulged bbl and wanted to make a 3" field gun out of it to carry hunting small game. Got a 4" model 53 barrel off Ebay. Since it has the barrel shroud, if I cut it to 3 1/2" it would look like a mini 27. Glad Big Cholla gave the bore diameter of the 53 barrels and said it would shoot OK. It's stamped 22 mag but the bore is smaller than the regular.22 mag barrels. On with the project, Larry
Please give us a detailed write-up on this project. I'm very interested. I think that you are going to be very pleased with the results.

And, if anyone else has a spare M 53 barrel, please consider offering it to me. You do realize that because the M 53 cylinder is longer than the standard length of a "K" cylinder that to use this barrel with a "K" cylinder it will have to be set back a turn or two. No real big deal for the competent pistolsmith, but still a consideration. ....
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:06 PM
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Bam-Bam, it will stay a .22 long rifle. No need for a .22 mag. Larry
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Old 05-11-2017, 09:35 PM
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After reading this do I understand I can take a 10 shot 617 and find the right cylinder from a 648 and end up with both a 6 shot magnum and a 10 shot 22? This seams like having your cake and eating it too. Those other guys who make a convertible revolver have a nice gun but it is single action and I prefer a double action.
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