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Old 04-11-2017, 05:00 PM
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Default Penetrating oil

Got this from a friend...

Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts.

They treated the nuts with a variety of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them. This is what they came up with:

Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50 mix): 50 lbs=
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:15 PM
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Default That is interesting....

ATF and acetone did far more than any others, huh? Appreciate that.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:22 PM
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I'll stick with Kroil. Don't like acetone.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:04 PM
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We used the ATF/Acetone mix in our auto shop to unstick engines as well as tackle any stubborn fastener. It really is the best I have ever used.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:14 PM
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I've got some exhaust pipe nuts that I can't break loose...looks like I need to mix up some aft/acetone.
Interesting.
Thanks for posting.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:47 PM
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Interesting indeed. Especially since I just pulled some pricing and Kroil is $78 a gallon, ATF is $20 a gallon and acetone is $15 a gallon. So you can make twice the amount of Kroil for less than half the price and it works twice as well according the torque pressures!
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Old 04-12-2017, 02:45 AM
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ATF and acetone are 2 of the main components of Ed's Red bore cleaner.
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:02 PM
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I have had such success with Kroil that I would not mess with anything containing Acetone. Kroil has never failed me yet - and the ONLY complaint I have is it SMELLS bad! Unless I've got no choice on the matter, I use it outdoors. If I HAVE TO use it inside I open all the windows in my Workshop area. Other than that - it's a FANTASTIC product!
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:05 PM
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I assume the acetone is to thin out the atf. I wonder if a less volatile solvent would yield similar results?
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:06 PM
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The best penetrating oil made is S'Ok. Nothing even compares to it. Its pricey as can be but when you have horrible rusted bolts or galled threads. This stuff will make it like new smooth. We use a lot where I work.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:19 PM
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My formula for Ed's Red:
1/3 ATF
1/3 Kerosene
1/3 Acetone
There's always gallon of this stuff sitting out in the barn where the tractor and other equipment is worked on, and a couple of old fashioned oil cans of it in strategic places about the farm. It's by far the best I've ever used.
My guess is the acetone thins the lighter oils out enough for them to seep into the cracks and then evaporates quickly, leaving the oils for a lubricant.

Last edited by Leslie Sapp; 04-13-2017 at 05:03 AM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 05:43 PM
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Some of the newer ATFs won't mix with Acetone, they just stay separated. I'm not sure how to tell which ones will work right.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:35 PM
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Allegedly a spray call Free All works very well.
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Old 04-12-2017, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACORN View Post
I assume the acetone is to thin out the atf. I wonder if a less volatile solvent would yield similar results?
Kerosene and ATF works pretty well.
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
Some of the newer ATFs won't mix with Acetone, they just stay separated. I'm not sure how to tell which ones will work right.
I just use the cheap Dex/Merc brands like the Wal Mart Super-Tech line.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:07 PM
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I just use the cheap Dex/Merc brands like the Wal Mart Super-Tech line.
I bet the issue is with the newer synthetic stuff. Just use the Dexron/Mercon III. Cheaper anyway.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:59 PM
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I have used ATF, acetone and kerosene in various formulas and it may take awhile but it is effective on stuck tractor engines. If you need to use this on your guns use power steering fluid instead of ATF as the PSF does not have the red dye.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Arkansawyer View Post
I have used ATF, acetone and kerosene in various formulas and it may take awhile but it is effective on stuck tractor engines. If you need to use this on your guns use power steering fluid instead of ATF as the PSF does not have the red dye.
It really is good for this. I remember using it last on a Ford Y block that was rusted up tight. Soaked it heavy for a week, and was able to bust it loose. Always makes it easier to tear down an engine when you can get it to spin over.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:07 AM
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another vote here for kroil
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:38 AM
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I wouldn't call this test "recent". The results you mention are an exact copy of a test that has been done at least 4 years ago if not longer and has been on the web for the same. A google search will yield it. Even so, it is good info and thanks for sharing because evidently some haven't heard about it before. I believe Kerosene can be substituted for acetone too.

I know because about a year ago I needed the best to loosen a very rusted anode rod on my water heater. Half acetone and half ATF is supposedly the best and everyone who has tried it usually agrees. It worked miracles on my anode rod with 18hrs time given. Before that, an impact driver wouldn't loosen it.

I am not sure what the old ATF was like, but the generic Dexron/Mercon does in fact separate. When you use it, you must shake it up well right before applying. To each their own though.

Playing with acetone is nothing to be afraid of, and this mixture is something you can do only when needed and doesn't need to be made in large batches requiring storage. Given the cost savings, Kroil wouldn't even be an option compared to this, which works better.

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Old 04-14-2017, 09:17 AM
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I need something to help break the cylinder and ejector rod loose on a 15-2 cylinder. Soaked it for days in some old break free stuff I have. Any suggestions? It supposedly has left hand threads.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:53 AM
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Very much like Kroil. Ballistoil is good. Will most certainly buy some ATF, Acetone and
Kerosene and do the Ed's Red mix. Will doubtless be very useful for the lawnmower, etc. Sincerely. bruce.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
I have had such success with Kroil that I would not mess with anything containing Acetone.
If you look at the MSDS for AeroKroil, you find it indeed contains acetone, albeit in a refined form (isobutyl ketone), as do practically all other similar solvents (PB Blaster, Liquid Wrench, etc.).

Acetone, or derivatives of, is what provides the "creep" or penetrating effect for all these products. When you look at the list in the OP, we find that the more acetone the products contain, the more penetrative they are, hence requiring less torque to loosen the nuts.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:02 AM
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Default four years is pretty recent.......

A test done four years ago is pretty recent in my book.

Back when Coca Cola was the real stuff, mechanics would wrap a rag around the frozen part and soak it with Coke. Then go for lunch and when they came back it would be ready to take off.

Maybe some ATF, acetone and Coke would make a better mix.

It was probably the phosphoric acid in the Coke that did the trick.
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Old 04-14-2017, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
Some of the newer ATFs won't mix with Acetone, they just stay separated. I'm not sure how to tell which ones will work right.
Wrong type of ATF....download Ed's Red Bore Cleaner to see the specifications.
Dexron II, III ATF , General Motors spec.D20265 or later . I purchased the 4 following ingredients , one quart of each , all at wally mart for under $20.00 .

1.)SuperTech Dexron - VI. for use with type II, III (and a few other no.'s) General Motors , ATF.
2.) Kleen-Strip Acetone
3.) Crown Odorless Mineral Spirits
4.) Crown K-1 Kerosene (lamp and heater fuel)

It makes a gallon and don't look down your nose at it until you at least try it. Great for when you need a quantity of not expensive cleaner...I like it but also use the expensive ones that have a nice smell ( my wife has a sensitive nose) but for big jobs.....just try it once.
The mix I have with the above 4 ingredients , stored in clear Windex bottles spray , has shown no separation and It has been mixed for over a year . Different ingredients might make the difference with the separation , my ingredients stay mixed.
Gary

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Old 04-14-2017, 12:17 PM
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I wish someone would test straight diesel fuel. I clean all my guns with it.
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Old 04-14-2017, 12:49 PM
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I wish someone would test straight diesel fuel. I clean all my guns with it.
It would probably work fine , I have used kerosene for years, soaking rusty parts in it , the kerosene that's formulated for lamps and heaters doesn't smell that strongly .
Diesel is similar to kerosene , harder to ignite , how is the smell and how does it work in your experience....your experiences with it are just as valid as any "formal tester's "?
The reason about the smell question is I have bought products that just reeked , smelled so bad I wouldn't use them....
Guns cleaned with some products aren't allowed in the bedroom (with wife) for a day or two , until they loose the "smelly smell ".
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Old 04-14-2017, 05:04 PM
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I wish someone would test straight diesel fuel. I clean all my guns with it.
But who in their right minds wants to smell diesel fuel all the time?
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Old 04-14-2017, 07:10 PM
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I've had success soaking small rusty parts in white vinegar overnight, not sure if this would work on freeing up rusted nuts/bolts...
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:30 PM
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My dad always mixed up coal oil (kerosene) and Marvel Mystery oil about half and half to be used as penetrating oil. It would usually work, especially if you gave it some time to penetrate.
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Old 04-14-2017, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
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I wish someone would test straight diesel fuel. I clean all my guns with it.
In the early days Browning Arms Co. recommended using Diesel fuel to clean their firearms...........
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Old 04-16-2017, 09:43 PM
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white vinegar is one of the best ways to remove bluing on guns.


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Old 04-17-2017, 06:41 AM
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I'll stick with Kroil. Don't like acetone.
+1 I always have a can of Kroil on my work bench.
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:46 AM
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If you use acetone in " Eds Red " be careful cleaning your guns as it will remove the finish on the wood parts . If you read his article he cautions the use of acetone . Says you can leave it out for a slightly less aggressive cleaning agent .
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Old 04-17-2017, 08:51 AM
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Kroil hasn't let me down yet.

Works great in the bore, too!
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:29 AM
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Kroil hasn't let me down yet.

Works great in the bore, too!
I'm not knocking the mixture, but Kroil has worked well for firearms and a number of other things. It got a music box working and I even used it on an anniversary clock where the pendulum had quit turning a long time ago. The pendulum has now been working for a couple of years. Seiko Anniversary Clock - Gold-Tone - Glass Dome - Rotating Pendulum – Princeton Watches
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:52 AM
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I'm not knocking the mixture, but Kroil has worked well for firearms and a number of other things. It got a music box working and I even used it on an anniversary clock where the pendulum had quit turning a long time ago. The pendulum has now been working for a couple of years. Seiko Anniversary Clock - Gold-Tone - Glass Dome - Rotating Pendulum – Princeton Watches
Your post has given me an idea that has not before come to me. I've got a grandfather clock for which the clockwork hasn't worked for years.

This afternoon, I'm going to spray the clockwork with Kroil to see if that frees anything up. Nothing to lose by trying since it's not working anyway!

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Old 04-17-2017, 10:56 AM
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Interesting indeed. Especially since I just pulled some pricing and Kroil is $78 a gallon, ATF is $20 a gallon and acetone is $15 a gallon. So you can make twice the amount of Kroil for less than half the price and it works twice as well according the torque pressures!
...and you thought you wouldn't use algebra!
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:14 PM
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I have used the ATF and Acetone mixture, and it does work very well as a penetrant. MEK (chemically similar to Acetone) will also work instead of Acetone. Two cautions - Acetone may attack some wood finishes, especially oil finishes, and Acetone has a very low flash point so there is a fire hazard. I have a pint or so of some ancient penetrating oil my father had when I was a kid, but I have yet to use any of it. I remember he used it to clean his guns with, like Hoppe's. Kerosene by itself is a reasonably good penetrating oil, that was what a lot of farmers used back in the day to work on their agricultural equipment. And burn in their kerosene lanterns and lamps.
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Old 04-18-2017, 10:06 AM
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I learned about Kroil from some steam engine mechanics who were restoring the locomotives for the Catskill Mountain RR back in 1969. They bought it in 55 gal drums. I used it in my Mercedes repair shop for 30 years and never found anything better. I've tried the ATF/Acetone but you have to mix it fresh everytime since the acetone evaporates so rapidly. A single can of AeroKroil lasts an awfully long time and it is the same strength from beginning to end, if you shake the can.

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Old 04-20-2017, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zonker5 View Post
Got this from a friend...

Recently “Machinist Workshop Magazine” did a test on penetrating oils. Using nuts and bolts that they ‘scientifically rusted’ to a uniform degree by soaking in salt water, they then tested the break-out torque required to loosen the nuts.

They treated the nuts with a variety of penetrants and measured the torque required to loosen them. This is what they came up with:

Nothing: 516 lbs
WD-40: 238 lbs;
PB Blaster: 214 lbs;
Liquid Wrench: 127 lbs,
Kano Kroil: 106 lbs
(ATF)/Acetone mix (50/50 mix): 50 lbs=
Recently? The test was years ago. And it's Ed's Red base, which has been around since Hatcher's time in between the wars.

By the way, it's worked great for at least 30 years. Personal experience.

Jeff

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Old 04-20-2017, 03:56 PM
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I'll stick with Kroil....mostly because I bought a small can on sale some time ago and it appears that it'll last about 3 lifetimes.....
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:00 PM
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I'll stick with Kroil....mostly because I bought a small can on sale some time ago and it appears that it'll last about 3 lifetimes.....
I was thinking the same thing until I learned how well Kroil cleans a bore. I've started bore cleaning all the firearms with it after each range outing. Looks like I'll be buying more Kroil after all.....
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Old 04-20-2017, 04:02 PM
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If you're considering using acetone remember that it has a flash point of minus 4 degrees F. If evaporated acetone accumulates it can actually blow up. Use it with a lot of ventilation.
Me, I'm a Kroil guy for over 50 years.
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Old 04-20-2017, 08:49 PM
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I have had such success with Kroil that I would not mess with anything containing Acetone. Kroil has never failed me yet - and the ONLY complaint I have is it SMELLS bad! Unless I've got no choice on the matter, I use it outdoors. If I HAVE TO use it inside I open all the windows in my Workshop area. Other than that - it's a FANTASTIC product!
I actually really enjoy that smell. They say that smell is the sense that is most linked to memory. When I sprayed my first can of Kroil this year, I was 7 years old again, playing at my friend's house down the street. I have always loved the smell, but I never knew what it was...I'm guessing his father used it for something in his work shop.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:08 PM
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WD 40 didn't surprise me as the latest WD 40 is almost useless. PB Blaster works so so. Liquid Wrench has been around like forever and it has always gave the best results of what I have tried.
Sounds like Kroil is safer to use than Acetone. I have never even seen it let alone use it before.
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Old 05-02-2017, 02:23 AM
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I always have a metal can of acetone in the garage as it is just about the most aggressive solvent you can still buy.
I used to use stuff like trichloroethylene at work to dissolve solder flux but those compounds have gone away for the most part.
Acetone is the only thing I could get to dissolve Tempilaq residue after annealing brass.
But I will never willingly use it in the house for the reasons stated above plus breathing any organic solvents is bad juju IMHO.
I use brake cleaner sometimes to degrease cylinder (and rifle) chambers and that also is done in the garage with the door open.

As far as the smelly aspect of gun juice goes, I think everyone will agree that new cars should smell like original Hoppes!
I believe that smell is mostly from isoamyl acetate, also known as banana oil.
Amyl acetate is a nitrocellulose solvent and actually is found in bananas albeit in a low concentration.
Isoamyl acetate - Wikipedia
If you really want a gun smell that will wake up the wife try Eezox.
Recommended for blind shooters as you can locate your gun 100 yards away just by the smell.
It's not a bad smell though, just pungent.
I am warming to it actually.
Probably bad for me as is everything else I like.
Now if they made a gun cleaner that smelled like single malt whisky.....
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Old 05-02-2017, 09:35 AM
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Good thread. Learning a lot.
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Old 05-02-2017, 10:29 AM
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Can of Kroil is always on my table. We use it on refineries when there is a shutdown. When we first show up on the job there is usually a couple 55 gal. drums full of it. But I do like the ideal of making up some of this atf stuff which we have plenty of that wont costs much at all.
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by stu1ritter View Post
I learned about Kroil from some steam engine mechanics who were restoring the locomotives for the Catskill Mountain RR back in 1969. They bought it in 55 gal drums. I used it in my Mercedes repair shop for 30 years and never found anything better. I've tried the ATF/Acetone but you have to mix it fresh everytime since the acetone evaporates so rapidly. A single can of AeroKroil lasts an awfully long time and it is the same strength from beginning to end, if you shake the can.

Stu
My buddy, earlier in his career, managed 2 different power plants, one an aero-derivative frame 7 turbine generator, the other a massive IC diesel the size of a big house. They used Kroil by the drum, especially to disassemble and clean turbine wheels. It would cut through the carbon build-up and free stuff up.

We all use it on our boats these days.

Now, the ED's Red type home brew, after the acetone, MEK, kerosene, whatever eventually evaporates, you are still left with the Dexron, which is about 5W20 oil with a lot of detergents and anti oxidants in it. Just fine as a leave behind lubricant.

Last edited by Racer X; 05-07-2017 at 11:30 PM.
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