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Old 05-10-2017, 12:26 AM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec  
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Default N 625-8 Frame extractor rod tightening torque spec

I've got a brand new 625-8. The one with the blue/white/red wood grips. Will be replacing the grips with the factory black rubber grips like those on the 629. Though SW is out of stock right now.

I'm going to replace the extractor rod and release switch with stainless steel as I don't like the blue look. I'm going with SDM thumb release stainless steel as I read you get better grip with your thumb. As I find my thumb slipping off the factory piece.

But on the extractor rod. What torque spec does that have when tightening it down? Watching this video he says there is a 45-50 inch torque spec:

Power Custom - S&W Yoke, Extractor Rod Alingment, & Endshake Correction - YouTube

I already have an inch torque wrench. And I went ahead and made a tool with a tire valve tool that I screwed a bolt into so I could put it into a torque wrench and turn it against two empty shells. With moon clips, I'll have 4 shells going into the cylinder, and have 2 shells in reverse sticking out so I have something to torque against.

I don't know what tool that guy is using on the end of his torque wrench.

I'm still deciding whether to get that Visesmith, or get a $20 vise from the hardware store and put some rubber or something on the jaws. Did try to unscrew the rod with vice grips and pieces of leather, but the vice grip chewed into rod. Didn't matter though as I'll be replacing it anyways, but don't want to damage the new rod.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:44 AM
Tyrod Tyrod is online now
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Gunsmither Vicesmith works very well.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:51 AM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Originally Posted by Tyrod View Post
Gunsmither Vicesmith works very well.
I've read of some saying you need to use rosin to keep it from rotating? Some say they didn't have to use it?

Was looking at the $20 vice press:

Drill Press Vises - Tools - IRWIN TOOLS

As I could use the vice for other things. But was thinking of putting in some rubber gasket material, or using wooden clothespins.

But I think first, I'll get some wood clothespins and clamp that with vicegrips to see how that works. I'll play around with the original rod as I'm not worried if that gets scuffed up. If the clothespins and vice grip don't work or scratch. Then I'll look at something else.

Main thing is to see what torque specs these have on them from S&W? Is it 45-50 inch pounds from the factory they tighten them to?
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:18 AM
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I found a portable drill chuck worked when nothing else would on loosening a subborn extractor rod. The one I used was even keyless. Left no marks.

Just remember to DOUBLE check your orientation before turning. It's best done with the cylinder/yoke removed from the gun.

You do remember they have reverse threads?

As far as how tight, I don't know a figure either. I just tighten it until I think it won't come loose on it's own. If it does come loose I tighten it a little harder the next time.

.
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Old 05-10-2017, 02:29 AM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Yes, I know righty is loosening it.

Main thing is to know what torque spec Smith and Wesson uses at the factory for tightening the rod on the cylinder? I'm guessing 45 to 50 inch pounds? I'm thinking of using 45 inch pounds.

Also, I've got a digital caliper. So I'll measure the length of the old rod to compare to the length of the new rod. I've read these rods are custom fit to the gun. And I guess they grind some off on the end to fix things. Will be looking more into it.

Also is it okay to take the cylinder out and remove the rod for cleaning? Or is that something that would cause these parts a lot of wear and you should only remove the rod when having to fix something and not during routine cleaning?
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Old 05-10-2017, 05:21 AM
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According to what my 627 Pro told me, whatever S&W torqued it to wasn't quite enough. Mine worked loose after a few hundred rounds and I did what BLUEDOT37 does to torque mine back when I got back from the range. I just tightened it enough to keep it from backing out again by feel. I used a wood vice instead of a drill chuck though. The wood jaws in a wood vice won't mar the extractor rod either (pine wood in jaws).
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Old 05-10-2017, 08:46 AM
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I use a drill press vice with leather to pad the jaws and have not had an issue with removal of the rod. It will sometimes turn in the leather, but that is because I try to get the minimum pressure on the rod to remove it. The benefit of the leather is that if the rod does turn in the jaws, it doesn't mar the rod and I can just tighten it a bit more to get the rod loose.

I generally don't get too wrapped up in how many foot pounds (or inch pounds) to torque the rod. If that particular gun shows any tendency to shoot it loose, I will add a drop of blue loc-tite to the threads and it is good to go.
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Old 05-10-2017, 09:05 AM
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Just my personal opinion - some may disagree.......

I know this may sound counter-intuitive, but I would not waste your money on a specialized torque tool. If you take the plunge and want to start working on your guns you should learn how to "FEEL" the proper torque on screws, extractors, etc. Basically, you do want to get it tight WITHOUT Gorilla tightening it. DO NOT use any Locktite (NOT NECESSARY IF PROPERLY TIGHTENED), but use an old tooth brush to clean the fine threads (with some of your favorite solvent), clean off with your favorite rust preventative, wipe gently and reassemble. Use a Drill Press's Chuck or a quality Electric Drill with a good Chuck to hold your EJ. Tighten but don't do the Gorilla tight! I am sorry but it is a hard thing to describe over the net what tight enough is, but if you get started with Torque Wrenches you will never develop a feel for what is properly tightened.

INSERT EMPTY CASES IN CYLINDER WHEN TIGHTENING AND LOSING!

ERR ON THE SIDE OF A LITTLE TOO LOOSE RATHER THAN A LITTLE TOO TIGHT. I'D RATHER YOU HAVE TO RETIGHTEN (NO HARM DONE) THAN TO BREAK SOMETHING. (If you have an ER loosen, just tighten with a little more force) - when it remains tight you know you have done it correctly.

GET A FIRM CHUCK GRIP ON ER PAST THE KNURNLING SO IT DOESN'T GET MARKED UP.

REMEMBER - IT'S A REVERSE THREAD.

After you do this several times, YOUR HANDS AND BRAIN will become your Torque Wrench. You will be surprised how accurate and proper your muscle memory will become.
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Old 05-10-2017, 10:52 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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I tighten to where the cylinder starts to turn in my hand. This is the feel type of thing chief38 is talking about. My hand is the clutch that keeps the threads from stripping out. Everyone has to develop their own feel. For me, it's about 3/4 as tight as the maximum I could hold. It only takes a few times to find your feel.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:15 PM
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I own THREE torque wrenches (2 in inch pounds and one in foot pounds) but rarely use them anymore. Once in a blue moon I do use them on my Motorcycle or Automobiles. That's about it.
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Old 05-10-2017, 12:18 PM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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I've already made the "torque tool" and I already have a torque wrench.

Was looking for the torque spec that Smith and Wesson uses on these. As it appears there is a torque spec on these. Or at least a torque spec that shouldn't be exceeded.

On the video he says the torque spec is 45-50 inch pounds. I did search around and saw someone say NOT to torque past 50 inch pounds, or threads may stretch. So I'll probably set torque wrench to 40 or 45 inch pounds.

Here is what I used to make a tool:



I removed the piece sticking out of the end, and tightened in a bolt on the other end with red locktite so I could use it in a torque wrench.
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Old 05-11-2017, 10:33 AM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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When I had to tighten one . I used a spring loaded clothes pin gripped with just my hand . I would " snug " it then give it about 1/16" more . I didn't say 1/16th of a turn , just nudge it about 1/16" of an inch more tight. It has never taken more than a 2nd time to stop them from coming loose . I always place 3 spent cartridges in the cylinder first so I'm not putting pressure on the alignment pins on the back face of the cylinder .

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 05-11-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 05-11-2017, 11:02 AM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy4evr View Post
When I had to tighten one . I used a spring loaded clothes pin gripped with just my hand . I would " snug " it then give it about 1/16" more . I didn't say 1/16th of a turn , just nudge it about 1/16" of an inch more tight. It has never taken more than a 2nd time to stop them from coming loose . I always place 3 spent cartridges in the cylinder first so I'm not putting pressure on the alignment pins on the back face of the cylinder .
I'm going to try with a clothes pin held tight with vice grips. I'll put the clothes pin under where the yoke would be encase the rod gets any markings that would then be covered up by the yoke. I also have some thin copper tape. I'll probably cut a small piece and wrap around the rod once to help eliminate any markings on the rod.

I did notice there is a gap between the crane and frame when closed. I'm guessing Smith and Wesson have just gotten sloppy making sloppy fitting vs. a tight fit.

Also when opening the cylinder, I notice the end of the rod likes to hang on the spring piece at the muzzle. Looks like the center pin may be a little too short, thus that spring piece on the end catches on the lip of the rod. I've got a new center pin ordered anyways, so I'll compare length to the old one.
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Old 05-12-2017, 11:30 PM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Well, I tried the wooden clothespin with visegrip, and the rod just spun around in the clothespin.

Then I tried using the chuck from an electric drill, and it too just spun in the chuck.

And yes, I'm rotating clockwise.

I guess I'll look at getting that visesmith or the Brownell's 080-000-537WB S&W Large Extractor Tool. I recently placed an order with Brownell, and would have picked up the Brownell tool, but they were out of stock.

I'm kind of wondering if that Brownell design will put more even pressure around the rod than that visesmith? As the visesmith looks like it just presses on it from two sides like a vise. Whereas that Brownell design looks like it may put force more around the rod instead of squishing it from 2 sides. I think putting more force AROUND the rod would give better grip and be safer than trying to pinch it tight like what it looks like with the visesmith. As I'd be worried about turning the round rod into more of an oval type shape.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:23 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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I've been using the Brownell's one for years with good results so I can personally recommend it.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:40 AM
lefty_jake lefty_jake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendon View Post
Then I tried using the chuck from an electric drill, and it too just spun in the chuck.
Was this a keyless chuck? I can see how that might not have enough grip. I use a spare chuck that is tightened with a chuck key. It provides more than enough grip, and the extractor rod does not move at all in the chuck jaws, so it does not leave any marks. I know that it has enough grip to strip the threads on an extractor rod if I am not careful.

I admit that I might still like to have the Brownell's tool because it is a nicely made tool just for this purpose, so I would certainly not discourage you from getting one. But so far I have not had the need for one.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:47 AM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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It has left hand threads , so turn the knurled cap nut counter clockwise . I should of mentioned that in my first post .

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 05-13-2017 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:05 PM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty_jake View Post
Was this a keyless chuck? I can see how that might not have enough grip. I use a spare chuck that is tightened with a chuck key. It provides more than enough grip, and the extractor rod does not move at all in the chuck jaws, so it does not leave any marks. I know that it has enough grip to strip the threads on an extractor rod if I am not careful.

I admit that I might still like to have the Brownell's tool because it is a nicely made tool just for this purpose, so I would certainly not discourage you from getting one. But so far I have not had the need for one.
It's a keyless chuck. I'm just going to wait for Brownells to get theirs back in stock.
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Old 05-13-2017, 01:38 PM
lebomm lebomm is offline
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You might try a little rosin in the jaws of that wooden clothespin. If it should stick to the ER after, it will wipe right off with a bit of acetone or mineral spirits.

Larry
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Old 05-13-2017, 03:46 PM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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yes clockwise to loosen , counter clock wise to tighten . He asked about tightening it , not loosening it .
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Old 05-14-2017, 01:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty_jake View Post
Was this a keyless chuck? I can see how that might not have enough grip.
I'm sure each is different but my keyless DeWalt drill chuck has worked for me when nothing else did. My 396NG was incredibly (insanely) tight from the factory.

.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLUEDOT37 View Post
I found a portable drill chuck worked when nothing else would on loosening a subborn extractor rod. The one I used was even keyless. Left no marks.

Just remember to DOUBLE check your orientation before turning. It's best done with the cylinder/yoke removed from the gun.

You do remember they have reverse threads?

As far as how tight, I don't know a figure either. I just tighten it until I think it won't come loose on it's own.
And I use a bit of blue Loctite to make sure. I also use 9mm fired brass wedged in the tubes to make sure there is no rotational torque twisting the head of the extractor.

Last edited by bountyhunter; 05-14-2017 at 03:07 AM.
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Old 05-14-2017, 03:52 AM
Brendon Brendon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bountyhunter View Post
And I use a bit of blue Loctite to make sure. I also use 9mm fired brass wedged in the tubes to make sure there is no rotational torque twisting the head of the extractor.
How necessary is it to put an empty shell in on the "new" cylinders that don't use pins?
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Old 05-14-2017, 11:21 AM
cowboy4evr cowboy4evr is offline
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I realize the new cylinders don't have pins , but I would still insert 3 spent cases to take the pressure of securing the cap nut vs the end of the star extractor . I use the proper caliber cases and " NO " locktite . It is NOT necessary when done properly .

Last edited by cowboy4evr; 05-14-2017 at 11:24 AM.
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