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Old 05-11-2017, 07:03 PM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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Default Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?

I took my 640 out again this past Monday and I continue to be impressed with it. But, someone buggered up the extractor rod on it before I bought it. It came with a correct-looking S&W factory box, with label, but I can't help but to think that this is one of the police turn-ins that was reburbed by someone - maybe even the mothership. It was not sold as new, so something is rotten in Denmark - but it shoots great and looks fine minus the extractor rod...

Anyways, to the point, Midway sells an extractor rod for the 640-2 - but I was wondering if that rod is the same as/is OK for the 640-3? Thanks in advance!!

Last edited by GeoJelly; 05-12-2017 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 05-11-2017, 07:30 PM
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colt_saa colt_saa is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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If it was refurbished by the factory a new end label would have been put on the box changing the 1st digit of the product code from a 1 to a 6.

The -2 and -3 revisions of the model 640 utilize the same ejector rod.

You just need to order the one for your barrel length as there are 2 different ejector rod lengths available for the J-frame revolvers.
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:16 PM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colt_saa View Post
If it was refurbished by the factory a new end label would have been put on the box changing the 1st digit of the product code from a 1 to a 6.

The -2 and -3 revisions of the model 640 utilize the same ejector rod.

You just need to order the one for your barrel length as there are 2 different ejector rod lengths available for the J-frame revolvers.
Thank-you for the info! I mentioned this revolver in a previous post; I went back and searched and could not find the recommended solution for another problem it has. It has virtually zero endshake and a tight B/C gap - a .002 feeler gauge will go in but not freely. I wish I could find the thread - but apparently someone "fixed" the endshake with too many or endshake washers that are too thick. When I replace the extractor rod, I think the recommendation was to try to pull out the endshake washers and replace only half of them if there are multiple washers.

That said, I still don't understand the endshake washer or shimming process. Some commenters (here) say that adding e/s washers will decrease the b/c gap - other commenters say that isn't correct - and that adding washers will increase the b/c gap. There aren't any gunsmiths nearby - one place has an armorer but he only works with autos...
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Old 05-11-2017, 08:50 PM
67whaler 67whaler is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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I bought a 640-1 from center fire systems when they had them. Mine was like yours in that it's in nice condition-except that the extracto rod was chewed up. I replaced it,it's really easy. Midway USA has a video on how to do it. As far as the end shake issue I just put a new extractor rod on my new to me model 66 that I thought had excessive endshake,and added the 2 thinnest shims. It definitely helped. The best way I can describe what it did for me was that it didn't really reduce the gap- it just stopped the cylinder from moving back as much and making the gap bigger.
It's easy enough to remove the rod that you could try removing some shims and reassemble it and check. Just don't tighten the rod really tight until you get the final result that you want. Not a gunsmith or even an internet expert but this was my experience. Hope it helps a little.
Tad
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Old 05-18-2017, 12:34 AM
BradLH BradLH is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeoJelly View Post
It has virtually zero endshake and a tight B/C gap - a .002 feeler gauge will go in but not freely. I wish I could find the thread - but apparently someone "fixed" the endshake with too many or endshake washers that are too thick. When I replace the extractor rod, I think the recommendation was to try to pull out the endshake washers and replace only half of them if there are multiple washers.

That said, I still don't understand the endshake washer or shimming process. Some commenters (here) say that adding e/s washers will decrease the b/c gap - other commenters say that isn't correct - and that adding washers will increase the b/c gap. There aren't any gunsmiths nearby - one place has an armorer but he only works with autos...
The shims go between the yoke barrel and cylinder to reduce endplay. If you correct endshake with shims you will have more b/c gap than you had previously with the cylinder pushed forward.

Kuhnhausen Bench note 8, page 55 says "Cylinder endshake is checked by hand manipulating the installed cylinder ratchet assembly front back for zero perceptible endplay"
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Old 05-18-2017, 01:50 AM
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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As stated, the shims go in between the end of the yoke's barrel (the yoke barrel's face) & where it abuts to inside the cylinder's housing.

The barrel-cylinder gap will increase, when you add shims to eliminate excess endshake, as they (further) position the cylinder rearward.

A revolver cylinder, with excess endshake, is naturely pushed forward by the centerpin's spring because the yoke's barrel is too short. You feel, & can measure, that excess play when you push the cylinder rearward, overcoming the spring's pressure forward.

Once you add the shims, to take up the excess clearance, the cylinder can no longer go forward by that amount of play (ie: .004") & the barrel-cylinder gap will be wider. In actuality it's the same as the "properly measured" B-C gap (with the cylinder held forward) & endshake measurements (cylinder held rearward) combined, minus the shim added.

When you remove the cylinder from the yoke the shims will likely still be inside the cylinder's housing & you'll need something to help remove it, especially if it had been greased.

Ideally you want ~.001" endshake, but no more than .002" so you'll need to substract shim thickness accordingly if you have zero endshake to start with. I'd remove the old shims & install new ones as there's no telling how much pounding they've already taken.

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Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 05-18-2017 at 02:10 AM. Reason: .
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Old 05-18-2017, 06:57 AM
GeoJelly GeoJelly is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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Thank-you very much Gents for your input. Unfortunately, it has the slightest perceptible endshake. My extractor rod vise grips, from Midway, came in a couple of days ago. So, I removed the extractor rod and found that there were no shims inside the cylinder. The extractor itself looks absolutely new - shiny stainless - versus the cylinder which showed quite a bit of use before I polished it.

Pure speculation here, it looks like the extractor was replaced - resulting in the very tight B/C gap and near-zero endshake. I'm kinda between a rock and hard place - there is no endshake to correct so I can't really put in any shims to get the B/C gap opened up to at least .004 - I'm afraid the cylinder wouldn't close if I tried. Two side notes, the extractor rod vise grips from Midway worked perfectly - zero marks on the rod removing it, prolly because the actual jaws are aluminum (and I used some of the resin it came with). Second, and unfortunately, Midway sent me a rod (apparently) for a .38 version because the replacement rod is probably a 1/4-inch shorter than the original rod ...

Edited to add: the ejector rod from Midway was marked for 640-2 (and others) on the baggie. I was surprised at the difference in length between 640-2 and 640-3. I guess I'll have to call the mothership - and tolerate their expensive shipping prices - to get the correct length extractor rod.

Last edited by GeoJelly; 05-18-2017 at 07:03 AM. Reason: Mention ejector rod from Midway
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:07 AM
BradLH BradLH is offline
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Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3? Extractor Rod and Endshake on a 640-3?  
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If it were mine, and it didn't show signs of cylinder to forcing cone interference during a range session, i.e. increase in trigger pull as it warms up and gets dirty, or signs of scuffing on the cylinder or forcing cone, I wouldn't try to "fix" it.
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