I loved ALL of my 1970s Smiths. M52 target master, M27, M29-2. Never an issue. I Love the M629-6 half lug design. Love the front sight design. My eyes are not as good as they were but hey. I get by. I didn't check the weapon as closely as I should have because I had never felt the need in the past. My mistake. Don't like MIM parts as well but if they are good from the start, no problem. Problem is that the miss-drilled barrel mount to the frame is NOT something you would see even upon close inspection. I would guess that many of you with newer guns may the problem and not even know it. Hell just set those machines going and pump out tones of frames. Thread 'em. Screw on the barrels and ship 'em out. No one mics them to see if they are true. If you are not a gunsmith how do you check?
I ma hoping my gunsmith can put on a different sight that will sit straight and he can fix the cant. But whatever. I have learned my lesson.

[QUOTE=RubenZ;139612272
.....My beef is when you have new gun owners or new to Revolver owners coming in here and getting FLAK for wanting to purchase new S&W revolvers. Then the old timers come out saying don't waste your money, get -2's etc. etc. Thats simply not right.[/QUOTE]

Actually there's a sticky about that.

Bashing, Crying, & Whining
Note 588 likes.

I believe the OP has a legit gripe
, and conforms to the spirit, in his post so I'd let that go.

The other nonsense, and broken record postings about "they were all better back in the day and I only buy yada yada", "they're ugly", "the hole on the side" etc, is a violation of the above sticky by the boss.

I wish he'd enforce it and take out the trash once and for all.

Why people just cannot let others enjoy their new guns is beyond tiresome.

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Sure you did

I feel your pain. My brand new performance center 629 was cracked from the factory. Still ticked.. They replaced it. Took 2 months and never reimbursed the fees as they promised.

Sometimes it seems when someone reports a new low quality or defective S&W purchase it seems like winning & bashing however it may just be the truth. Unfortunately it is happening all too often now! It can not and should not be ignored - ultimately WE pay the price!

Personally, I think the best way SMITH & WESSON can avoid customers reporting horror stories about their products is to step up their current poor quality and make something we can all be proud to own.

On this website, I have to believe that most of us are S&W aficionado's and would rather only have to report good things to report about their products, however that is happening less and less and more reports of defective guns are being posted. Don't shoot the messenger - fix the problem is what I suggest.

My immediate suggestion would have been to send the gun back to Smith and Wesson instead of paying a gunsmith to do what the factory would have done for free. But that's just me, I guess. I got a Model 29 in 1975 that was poorly made (gee, I guess these things can happen at any time in a company's history) and a man by the name of Roy Jinks called me on a Friday night to apologize for the condition of the gun. When I got it back it was a total masterpiece. Sometimes it just makes sense to let the manufacturer try to resolve the issue.

Sent from my VS990 using Tapatalk

I hear ya. Been there, done that.
I too have had problems with S&W`s, two of the three I`ve bought new having to be returned to the factory for repairs. See my thread on 4/27/17. Not trolling or bashing S&W, just telling MY experiences.
I certainly understand that problems can occur during the assembly process but that`s where quality control should come in and catch the problem before the weapon is shipped. I don`t believe that it`s any design problems though...just seems to sometimes be the execution of the design.
Don`t let some peoples negative responses bother you as some will not tolerate any perceived criticism of S&W and will make excuses for poor quality control. It`s the same with any brand like Sig, Colt, Ford Chevy...etc. Human nature I guess.
All the above being said, my 686 is still my favorite handgun which I will never part with.

Ladder13,

I can't speak for others here but fully recognize that poor quality shipments is something that has gone back to the beginning of manufacturing - be it guns or what ever. No dispute there.

I am in my 60's and have been into Smiths since I was 14 years old, and an owner of them since I was 21. The vast majority of my collection was acquired in the late 70's and 80's with some in the early 90's as well. In that 20 some odd year period I got ONE stinker. A 2" RB M10 that was so defective it could NOT be repaired. Fran Longton (A S&W Manager) took my M10 from my hands (up at the Factory of course), told me to go to lunch, and when I came back he pulled a brand new one off the line and had stamped my serial number on it. The destroyed my old one. In exactly one hour my problems were solved and I drove home a happy camper.

So over the years, ONE stinker out of all of them. Now remember, the new ones I purchased came right out of the box with no selection of different examples (for the most part) I can NOT remember any defects that I rejected a specific gun over, NEVER.

Today is a different story. There are way less humans handling product prior to shipment and the humans at the Factory today are WAY WAY LESS skilled than the employees of 40 - 50 years ago. I doubt some of the modern day employees could even recognize a minor defect! I've also been a member of this and other website for a long time now and sincerely do not remember seeing, reading about and hearing the sheer quantity of poorly manufactured, sloppy spec's, scratched and damaged guns, canted barrels, blah blah blah.

I recognize we are all "into" S&W and no one WANTS to batter the Company's name and reputation but to me it seems that they themselves are the ones responsible for this - not us consumers.

Sigh.........reading comprehension is so lacking as is QC.
No one disputes issues with anything manufactured, except on the Sig forum they're a bit thin skinned there unable to take criticism.
For the upteenth time it's about snide comments like "the Hilary hole" and those previously mentioned. Beating a dead horse much?
Comment on issues is fine, I've already agreed on that.

I don't even own anything post the mid 90's but I like to see people enjoy their new guns without being subject to kindergarten banter.

Gee, I wonder why Lee even took the time to post a sticky.

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Sure you did

If anyone really thinks that SW factory or any other big name is has a bunch of Bozos working there, they are really mistaken. Many of the SW employees have been there a LONG time. They have many Master Gunsmiths.

Also if someone thinks that Gus the Gunsmith from 1950 can produce a firearm with better tolerances than a CNC machine is also mistaken, MIM parts are also NOW flawless and so tight in tolerance. Yes, when MIM first came out there were some issues

How are parts made for the AreoSpace, Auto and Medical field made?? CNC machines

How many firearms are actually produced by SW in a day, month year??

So we have one post with "reported" issues and that means that SW is "Kaput"?? Get real!

Here is part 1 of the SW performance Center there are 4 or so. Yes, it is the PC but the rest of the factory runs the same,

Also here is a video of a Sig Clone made in Slovakia (yes, it is real touching music but shows how high tech industry is today)



Have a nice day!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Ya, that video sure doesn't seem to show a lot of so called "humans at the Factory today are WAY WAY LESS skilled than the employees of 40 - 50 years ago" employees working there. In fact those guys look to be the same employees of 40-50 years ago LOL.

Never heard of them.
If it's anything like CZ quality, they have a future.

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Sure you did

Always check with the factory first.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

What Chief 38 said-ditto-nuff said.

There can be no "quality" they use high tech CNC machines and OMG computers

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Still Running Against the Wind

[QUOTE=Rule3;139613598

How many firearms are actually produced by SW in a day, month year??

[/QUOTE]

Over 200,000 a year not that it matters when you're drinking the haters kook aid.

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Sure you did

The OP did nothing wrong here folks.

He spent his hard earned money on what is supposed to be a Top End/High Quality Gun. Smith and Wesson is supposed to be High Quality Brand.

They fixed one of his issues and then told him that the other issues were 'In Spec'.

'In Spec'? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

A gun is either right or it isn't - period!

With the technology available today and with good training, there really shouldn't be as many Lemons leaving the factory as there are.

Get it right, and if you can't get it right fix it until it is right and give your customer the best product that they can get!

In spec means exactly that. No two guns are ever the same. So there are going to be slight variations. Even rifles have "spec" for bolt gap

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Of course, that raises the question "are S&W's specs too lax"? I don't know, raising the question.

Well hate to break it to you, but For a gun to be right, all it has to do is FIRE reliably at what you aim at Not look like it needs to be stored next to the Mona Lisa in a museum

Again, not talking about the OP's problem. That probably would piss me off, but I would just have the MFG make it right and chalk it up as one bad lot.

Strange, it wasn't all that long ago that people were complaining how bad the Bangor Punta era guns were, or the Lear Siegler era guns (rightly so). Now they are the pinnacles of quality.

Well the OP DID send it back to S&W to correct issues, S&W fixed one issue, and then decided the rest of the issues were not issues because they were 'In Spec' what ever the hell that means.

The OP then had to spend additional money out of his pocket to make the gun right.

Sounds like an excuse for less than high quality by S&W.

I hate to break this to you, but when people accept a bad quality gun from S&W it enables S&W to continue this behavior.

And then there's the ludicrous notion that sending it back to the same monkeys who ruined it the first time is the way to go. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and expecting different results?

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!! FAR CRY 3!!!

Works both ways. You keep buying them

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HASSIMAN, I FEEL YOUR PAIN FRIEND. I DID A SMALL SEARCH ONLINE, AND SEEMS THERE ARE A FEW INSTANCES LATELY ON UTUB, WHERE SOME COMPLAIN ABOUT BARRELS SCREWED OFFSET TO THE FRAME, AND THEN CANTED SO THE SIGHTS WOULD SOMEWHAT ALLIGN. APPARENTLY, IF THAT IS SO, THEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT A BAD LOT. NO EXCUSE IN MY BOOK FOR S&W TO LET THESE OUT THE DOOR. I AM SURE THAT LEMONS HAVE BEEN OUT THEIR DOOR, (JUST LIKE ANY OTHER MANUFACTURING FACILITY PRODUCING ANYTHING) IN THE PAST AS WELL. BUT NOWADAYS, IT IS EASIER TO HEAR ABOUT SUCH ISSUES DUE TO THE WEB. WHEN I WAS IN COLLEGE (BACK IN A PREVIOUS LIFE,LOL) STUDYING BUSINESS ADMINISTRATION, WE WERE TOLD "YOU DO SOMETHING RIGHT, 3 PEOPLE WILL HEAR ABOUT IT. YOU DO SOMETHING WRONG 100 PEOPLE WILL HEAR ABOUT." PLUS "YOU DO SOMETHING RIGHT, NONE REMEMBERS, YOU DO SOMETHING BAD, NONE FORGETS." THAT IS THE FOUNDATION WHERE A COMPANY BUILDS ITS NAME UPON. SOME OF YOU MAY REMEMBER ABOUT 20 SOMETHING YEARS AGO, WHEN THE GLOCK 40 S&W REAR RAILS WHERE SEPERATING OFF THE FRAMES. THAT COULD NOT BE A SURPRISE, BECAUSE THIS COMPANY KNEW NOTHING ABOUT GUNS. THEY JUST MADE BAYONETS AND FOLDING SHOVELS UNTIL 1985. AND STILL, THEY HAD THIS ISSUE ATTENDED. BUT FOR S&W, THE COMPANY THAT GAVE US NOT ONLY THE "FIRST" CARTRIDGE MORE THAN 150 YEARS AGO, BUT MOST OF THE HANDGUN CALIBERS STILL IN USE TODAY, I WOULD DEMAND THEY WOULD DO THINGS RIGHT. AND AGAIN, THIS RANT COMES FROM A VERY HARDCORE S&W FAN. I HAVE FIRED EVERYTHING, BUT ONLY OWN S&W. JUST MY TWO CENTS FRIENDS.

A few days ago I went to pick up my layaway from an LGS. While there I looked around and played with a few older revolvers. 10-7, 60 and a 37. The 37 had a pinned barrel and canted sights. At first it looked a bit odd so I looked down the sights from the rear and the front and compared to the 60 and sure enough the 37 had slightly canted sights. This gun is about 40 years old

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"Another reason I will never buy a Smith & Wesson gun that is not at least 30 years old."
_____________________________________________

Well, this lets me know you weren't buying guns in the 1980's, a true low point, although even then, most were fine.

There's nothing new under the sun, except the ability of people to spread their opinion. I was reading the Handguns section of the 1972 Gun Digest (which would have been printed in 1971) a couple of weeks ago, and handgun editor George Nonte was telling readers to inspect their new handguns very carefully for QC problems (p. 274).

Somehow those "monkeys" churn out 200,000+ guns a year and every one of them gets sold including the Shield which is either the #1 or #2 selling gun year after year.

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Sure you did

Just so we're clear, you don't own any Smith semi's from 1987 on either?

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Sure you did

It is really hard to "believe" that this thread has gone on for 80 or so posts based on one persons claim of a "bad" revolver. The OP one and only topic posted on this forum is related to this 629. Apparently "his" gunsmith is more knowledgeable than those at the SW factory who have been there for many years?? They are now all "monkeys"

What did we ever do in ITTBTI? (in the time before the internet" and YouTube??) I guess all the "lemons" before then never got to be known to the world,??

We have no "facts", pictures or anything, there are always two sides to every story

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Still Running Against the Wind

My definition is working 3 or 4 or 10 jobs in "retirement" when you should have done that before you retired.

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Sure you did

LOL exactly.

Lets face it all firearms are "junk" and of poor quality.

They are all "monkeys" locked up in a factory

Brands I have returned:

S&W fixed
Sig Fixed
Glock (yes a Glock) Fixed
Ruger fixed

Only gun never returned was a new Colt as I never have purchased one!

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Still Running Against the Wind

Last year I bought a pre war Hand Ejector Second Model, shipped in 1933 at my local gun shop. It came from an old timer's collection which the family wanted to sell. BTW, it had a beautiful set of Roper ribbon grips on it! I worked the action and it was smooth as drawn butter. The finish was deep blue black and mirror polished.

It was love at first sight. I took it home and began to read up on pre war Smiths. I ordered a factory letter, and documentation from SWHF. A whole new world opened up for me!

I began to search out other pre war Smiths. An Outdoorsman and a Registered Magnum soon followed. The more I learned, the less satisfied I was with the new Performance Center Smiths I owned.
No problems with them, but they just feel different and function differently. I understand that hand fitting and machining is probably not possible given the economics of the gun making business. But perhaps a CNC machine or whatever is part of the current process lacks the intuitive feel of a trained gunsmith. I know from my experience with Bill Wilson 1911s and Ed Brown guns that a big part of the manufacturing process is the hand fitting of the gun internals. But there is a price to pay for hand fitting and you end up with $3,000-$5,000 pistols.

Modern Smiths are good guns and if I had never set foot in the local gun shop and bought the HE model two I would be happily satisfied with the modern offerings. But I was not and therefore I sold my modern (purchased during the past five years) Smiths to fund my pre war collecting.

We can watch video's, take tours, etc. but at the end of the day it's what comes out of the box that REALLY COUNTS! If that ain't right nothing else matters.

And we really do not know of what came out of this one box out of millions now do we??

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Still Running Against the Wind

Only have two, both first year issues, a 645 and a 6906.

I do have a 2016 M&P15 rifle.

In my previous comment I was alluding to S&W revolvers specifically. Should have made that clear.

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FBINA, 204th Session

When I sent the gun back for repair it was sent with a highly detailed letter describing the problems I was aware of, which, unless blind were quite evident.

When the gun was at the factory I called a number of times and talked with their technical reps whom I was astonished to discover knew little about what the specs and tolerances were and if they could be corrected. Very disheartening.

Make no mistake, they were polite and seemed to want to help but unfortunately you will never be able to discuss your problem with anyone that has or will ever see your weapon. After that experience I realized that if I wanted to get it done properly I would have to find another way
.
The gun was returned by Smith with the barrel still canted, the front sight slot missed off center, the cylinder gap .006 on one side and .009 on the other and the barrel .003 out of true to the frame.
Had I known that I would have demanded a new weapon. I am not however a master machinist.

It has been explained to me that CNC manufacturing is great but and every few thousand parts are milled bits and other tools wear, so those tight tolerances are no longer that tight anymore. So if you get a gun assembled after the CNC equipment has been running for a while... it can be problematic, especially if there are not folks hand measuring and hand fitting the parts into the finished product. That's just the way it is today. Kind of sad. But it seems that all of these things are made that way today. It isn't just Smith.... by a long shot.
Buying ANY new firearm ... Caveat Emptor.

I never understood why everything needs to be either .000000001 tolerance or it's trash.

People worry too much about it bitty little gaps instead of shooting the thing. Never checked the tolerance on mine, don't care, they have shot, shoot now and will continue to shoot.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Smith and Wesson:
I sent a Model 642 (aged over a year old) with the finish peeling off.
The estimate was $85.00 for a safety check and 275.00 for a refinish which came to a total of $360.00 which is almost the price of a new Model 642 (on sale)
Seriously considering going "Ruger".

That's why I won't buy any Smiths that weren't made during February of 1953, and then only the first 19 days. Anything else is pure junk.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

I'll try to explain. My NIB model 25-15 is on its second trip to S&W. When I got it back from them the first time, the original problem was not corrected and the gun is now spitting fire from the cylinder gap like a dragon - a new problem.

I put a feeler gauge on it and it measured .013. I have read here but have not substantiated with S&W that .012 is within their specs. I find that "spec" completely unacceptable.

After sending it back again last week I purchased a NIB Ruger Redhawk in .45 Colt, same caliber as the Model 25. Based on the S&W experience I took the feeler gauge with me when I bought the Ruger. The gap measured a "tight" .006. No issues of any kind like what I experienced with the S&W, all with the same ammo, and it is extremely accurate.

And don't get me wrong. I love the Model 25, it is absolutely gorgeous and would love to get it all fixed, but if it comes back with that huge cylinder gap as "in spec" I will just use it as a $1000 paper weight.

Brand new Ruger M77 in 308 was scratching brass badly, inletting for the receiver had chunks taken out of the wood. Had to send it back, best groups with the factory barrel 1.5 at best. Remington 870 shotgun, had to go back for a new shell latch and receiver was refinished after repairs. Winchester model 70 brand new went back due to having numerous pits in the barrel. Came back still had the pits. Sold the rifle with new owner aware of the pitting. Found out later that winchester had started doing hammer forged barrels and steel was to be reamed and clean before the process was started. Pits were from inclusions in the barrel steel. GMC Sierra 2006 have 25000 miles on it and no problems. Frank

Always give S&W first crack at fixing their own gun.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

You must not drive much in Louisiana. My 2007 Envoy has 160,000+ on it without any problem other than normal wear.