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07-18-2017, 12:03 AM
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19-3 draging on 2 chambers
Bought a rough looking but tight 19-3 4" off GB for a new toy. Tore it down and went thru the action over the weekend. 15 hours later it is glass smooth using the original main spring (polished) and a 15 pound return spring.
7 pound trigger on DA and 2 pounds on single. When pulling the hammer back is nice and smooth except on 2 chambers it has a stiff area in the last bit of hammer travel. One is a bit more than the other but they are both noticeably different than the other four.
I am guessing a bent crane? Only thing I can surmise after consulting the S&W revolver book and checking everything else.
Run out on the extractor is .0045 and the cylinder is at .003 measuring on the rear face at the edge of the chambers. I did notice that the trigger hand has a slight mark on it after I polished it. From what I can see working the action, it rubs at the last part of it's travel as it moves back, not during the engagement and moving of the cyl.
I have attached a few pictures for the wise ones here to look at. Any ideas?
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07-18-2017, 01:24 AM
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Shoot the gun and let the front of the cylinder get dirty. When the binding first occurs open the cylinder and look carefully for drag marks in the fouling on the cylinder face indicating contact with the rear of the barrel. A loose crane retaining screw can cause this as well as anything under the ejector star. When the cylinder rotates the hand is pushed against the right side of the opening so I would think some marks would be normal.
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07-18-2017, 06:25 AM
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Try to get the extractor a bit more true. It is possible that the 2 ratchet teeth for those 2 chambers are a bit large and need adjusted. If the bolt drops and locks the cylinder up and the hand still has much ratchet tooth it has to force its way by to allow the trigger to finish its movement to release. In this case the extractor run out may be causing the rear cylinder to be force over just enough to cause the hand ratchet engagement to be a bit off. But the rear of the cyliinder is fairly well held in position by the ended of center pin engaging its location in recoil shield. But, then it don't take much
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07-18-2017, 09:30 AM
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Check endshake as well as the other suggestions. With only .003 cylinder gap, the cylinder may be rubbing on the back of the barrel on 2 chambers. Sometimes the face of the cylinder is not square to the axis of rotation and the cylinder gap will be different as the cylinder is rotated. The hand pushes the cylinder forward as the trigger is pulled, so any endshake slack will be taken out during that time.
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07-18-2017, 10:23 AM
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I fixed a 19-3 for a guy a couple of months that had the same issues.
I replace the hand but the biggest issue were the ratchet teeth. I cleaned them up with a jewelers file and it fixed that problem. The other problem was totally user error. When the gun started binding the owner just started pulling harder and harder on the trigger which in turn bent the trigger stud and it had to be replaced. Replacing a stud on that model is not the easiest thing to do.
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07-18-2017, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by series guy
Shoot the gun and let the front of the cylinder get dirty. When the binding first occurs open the cylinder and look carefully for drag marks in the fouling on the cylinder face indicating contact with the rear of the barrel.
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Did this yesterday and the face showed no marks.Cly to forcing cone is .009-.010 with the cly pushed back on all six. Put some sharpie ( poor mans Dykem) and cly is rubbing after cycling with empties in the cylinders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver
Try to get the extractor a bit more true. It is possible that the 2 ratchet teeth for those 2 chambers are a bit large and need adjusted.
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Don't think I can get the extractor any better, ordered a new one today as well as a fine 1/4" stone to dress the teeth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy
Check endshake as well as the other suggestions. With only .003 cylinder gap, the cylinder may be rubbing on the back of the barrel on 2 chambers.
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The .003 is the runout on the cylinder face, Cylinder gap is .009 to .010. Yup, it's rubbing. What is a good real world target for the min/max end shake?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy52
I fixed a 19-3 for a guy a couple of months that had the same issues.
I replace the hand but the biggest issue were the ratchet teeth. I cleaned them up with a jewelers file and it fixed that problem. The other problem was totally user error. When the gun started binding the owner just started pulling harder and harder on the trigger which in turn bent the trigger stud and it had to be replaced. Replacing a stud on that model is not the easiest thing to do.
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Thanks. " Trigger is binding.............Pull Harder!" Wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects
The runout tolerance for extractor rods is only .002", so you need to true the extractor rod.
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Got one on the way. Will address the endshake with some Powercustom shims tonight. Will update with results. Thanks to all!
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07-18-2017, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by series guy
Shoot the gun and let the front of the cylinder get dirty. When the binding first occurs open the cylinder and look carefully for drag marks in the fouling on the cylinder face indicating contact with the rear of the barrel.
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Did this yesterday and the face showed no marks.Cly to forcing cone is .009-.010 with the cly pushed back on all six. Put some sharpie ( poor mans Dykem) and cly is rubbing after cycling with empties in the cylinders.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver
Try to get the extractor a bit more true. It is possible that the 2 ratchet teeth for those 2 chambers are a bit large and need adjusted.
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Don't think I can get the extractor any better, ordered a new one today as well as a fine 1/4" stone to dress the teeth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy
Check endshake as well as the other suggestions. With only .003 cylinder gap, the cylinder may be rubbing on the back of the barrel on 2 chambers.
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The .003 is the runout on the cylinder face, Cylinder gap is .009 to .010. Yup, it's rubbing. What is a good real world target for the min/max end shake?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy52
I fixed a 19-3 for a guy a couple of months that had the same issues.
I replace the hand but the biggest issue were the ratchet teeth. I cleaned them up with a jewelers file and it fixed that problem. The other problem was totally user error. When the gun started binding the owner just started pulling harder and harder on the trigger which in turn bent the trigger stud and it had to be replaced. Replacing a stud on that model is not the easiest thing to do.
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Thanks. " Trigger is binding.............Pull Harder!" Wow.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collects
The runout tolerance for extractor rods is only .002", so you need to true the extractor rod.
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Got one on the way. Will address the endshake with some Power custom shims tonight. Will update with results. Thanks to all!
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07-18-2017, 11:12 PM
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Tried to reply to all the suggestion but the post came back with "needs to approved by mod" so here is a quick update. Marked the cylinder and found that it was rubbing barrel in three places. Shimmed the cylinder with PC endshake shims and now have .007 gap and .009 if pushing back on the cyl.
So I have .002 endshake now. Should I add a .002 shim and remove it all?
Gun cycles good now with a very slight diff from cyl to cyl. I will touch up the ratchet teeth and replace the extractor later, but seems really good now overall.
Thank you guys so much!
Last edited by wgusler; 07-18-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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07-19-2017, 01:50 AM
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No, you want a little bit of end shake. If you set to tight cylinder will bind on yoke. The big question is How does it shoot?
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07-19-2017, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver
No, you want a little bit of end shake. If you set to tight cylinder will bind on yoke. The big question is How does it shoot?
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I will find out after work tonight. The forcing cone has some uneven wear( the round touches the top right corner first) so I don't expect any great shakes.
I am sending this little guy out to Frank Glenn in AZ for some barrel work, crane lock, adding an old Bomar rib, so she should be pretty good for accuracy after that. Frank has my 6" 19 now, so when it is done , this one will take the trip. Then we only need to re blue it and GTG.
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07-19-2017, 10:11 PM
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Per your suggestions , left endshake at about .001, gently stoned the ratchets and tweaked the ejector down to .002 runout.
Glass smooth on all cylinders with no variation. Put a box thru it tonight and feels good.
12 rounds at 15 yards single action.
Thank you guys again. Nice to have smart people as a resource.
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