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Old 08-11-2017, 01:18 PM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Unhappy 66 No dash - double action not working

Hi experts! I was pointed to this part of the forum from the welcome thread I made.

I have a few guns with some minor issues. The one I'm focusing on right now is a model 66, serial 9K23xx, where doble action does not work at all.
SA is perfect, the trigger amazing, but if I try to do a double action trigger pull, the trigger is locked/impossible to fire. It seems the barrel won't rotate and the gun locks up.

If I cock the hammer as I'm trying DA, it works half the time. Also - I'm able to use DA a few times, but wothout barrel rotation?

Hard to explain, but all suggestions are welcome. If my explanation sucks - let me know so that I can upload a video of the issue.

Apologies for poor English and terrible problem description. New gun owner from Norway.

-John
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:39 PM
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If I were to make an educated guess I would say the revolver has an issue with the sear.

Did you take the inside of the gun apart and reassemble it or did you get it in this condition from a previous owner.

I'm thinking it may not be assembled correctly.
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:43 PM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Got the gun from my father, afaik he bought it new, and has never had it opened up. I suspect that less than 1000 rounds have been fired through the gun, and hardly any 357, only 38. So it should not be reassembly error or wear :/
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Old 08-11-2017, 01:53 PM
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Do you have a good local gunsmith that is knowledgeable about revolvers that you can take it too?

Usually a revolver that will fire SA and not DA is a SA only revolver or has an issue with the DA sear.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:14 PM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Thanks for the replies, I have a different gun that needs professional care as well, so I guess I'll just go ahead and have the smith look at both.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:26 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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It may have old grease or oil that has solidified, making the parts not work correctly. It could also be other things, as mentioned above.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:04 AM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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I think I'll try a disassembly and see what it looks like. Will report back with photos unless I mess up completely
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:00 AM
moralem moralem is offline
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Check this out.....similar problem. 66-2 cylinder stopped rotating
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:24 AM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Ok, so I removes the sideplate, and the inside does not look too bad.

Can anyone see anything obvious from the attached picture?

Clarification: testing more now I can get barrel rotation on some/most DA trigger pulls, bit the hammer does not cock, and after 3-6 DA trigger pulls the whole gun jams up, and i have to manipulate the trigger and hammer to get it unstuck.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:30 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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The trigger is not going far enough forward to reset. The hammer sear needs to be on top of the trigger at the back and the cylinder stop needs to be under the trigger at the front.

Push on the back part of the trigger where it's in the trigger guard and see if it will go forward some more. The trigger rebound spring may be too light and not pushing it all the way forward. Sometimes the spring is cut off to make it lighter. If that is the case, put in a new rebound spring to fix it.

Last edited by Toolguy; 08-12-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KulKanin View Post
Ok, so I removes the sideplate, and the inside does not look too bad.

Can anyone see anything obvious from the attached picture?

Clarification: testing more now I can get barrel rotation on some/most DA trigger pulls, bit the hammer does not cock, and after 3-6 DA trigger pulls the whole gun jams up, and i have to manipulate the trigger and hammer to get it unstuck.
I don't see anything jumping out at me, but the trigger sear isn't engaged with the hammer strut, although that could be because you don't have the trigger returned fully to rest. If you do have the trigger completely reset and at rest, then that's the problem. I use Colt revolver terminology, so some parts I say may be named different with S&Ws.

I have a PDF copy of the Jerry K shop manual for S&W. Let me know and I can send you a link. That should help you figure out what it is.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:42 PM
P.44 P.44 is offline
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To post #9 (and as already stated from Toolguy and iPac in posts #10+11):
It seems, the trigger do not "reset" correctly (= in it's fully forward position).

Here -Thanks to 500 Magnum Nut !- scroll down to "Side plate removed" is a picture, how it should look...
FAQ

and here -Thanks to armorer951 !- the difference between DA / SA can be seen:
Revolver action drawings


For disassembly / reassembly the old(er) S&W-Revolvers this may be helpful (HINT: Don't disassemble more
than necessary, especially let this "trigger/hand/ handspring-thing" together ):
1.American Rifleman | Smith and Wesson Model 29
2. the pictures to 1. (Click on the white arrows in the Gallery)
American Rifleman | Smith & Wesson Model 29 Exploded View


Hopefully a good cleaning (with a toothbrush) and a light oiling will solve the problem...
Otherwise perhaps the next step should be a new Rebound Slide Spring...

Good Luck !

P.44

Attached: My father's M 66-1 (from 1979)
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66 No dash - double action not working-20170528_155333_zpsnmkensg2-jpg   66 No dash - double action not working-20170528_155630_zpskraopn5v-jpg  
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Old 08-13-2017, 06:51 AM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iPac View Post
I don't see anything jumping out at me, but the trigger sear isn't engaged with the hammer strut, although that could be because you don't have the trigger returned fully to rest. If you do have the trigger completely reset and at rest, then that's the problem. I use Colt revolver terminology, so some parts I say may be named different with S&Ws.

I have a PDF copy of the Jerry K shop manual for S&W. Let me know and I can send you a link. That should help you figure out what it is.
That would be awesome if you could send me a link to the shop manual.

Hunting season is just starting in Norway, and my gunsmith will be slammed for a few weeks with hunting weapons. I'd be rally happy if I could solve this one on my own.
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Old 08-13-2017, 07:15 AM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
.
Push on the back part of the trigger where it's in the trigger guard and see if it will go forward some more. The trigger rebound spring may be too light and not pushing it all the way forward. Sometimes the spring is cut off to make it lighter. If that is the case, put in a new rebound spring to fix it.
Thanks, but The trigger seems to reset fine, and the barrel rotates when I pull the trigger, but hammer does not move more than a millimeter or 2 (sorry - don't know the equivalent in inches - but it's barely mobing on DA pulls)

I think I'll try uploading a video to show the exact problem.
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:07 AM
KulKanin KulKanin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.44 View Post
snip
Thanks! I'll try checking this tonight!
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:26 AM
just plain joe just plain joe is offline
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Reference your picture in Post #9.

This is just a SWAG, but check that the trigger stop has not loosened and moved forward. It would then prevent full rearward travel of the trigger.

There is a small screw at the rear of trigger guard that holds the stop in position to limit rearward travel of the trigger. Some of my revolvers have this, others do not. I believe that S & W began deleting this part on service revolvers due to the fact that when the screw became loose with the attendant stop rotating out of position, the weapon became inoperable.

Others may know more though.

JPJ
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Old 08-13-2017, 08:37 AM
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The trigger stop was indeed deleted on the 19-5 and 66-2. Many police guns have had them removed as well. I have replaced a few with N frame style stops.
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Old 08-13-2017, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KulKanin View Post
That would be awesome if you could send me a link to the shop manual.

Hunting season is just starting in Norway, and my gunsmith will be slammed for a few weeks with hunting weapons. I'd be rally happy if I could solve this one on my own.
PM sent.

There is also the AGI video with Bob Dunlap and the S&W 3rd edition catalog too if you're interested. I also have the Jerry Miculek trigger job video, but don't have enough "free" space in dropbox to have all my videos uploaded and ready to share, and the AGI video is a better educational piece.
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