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Old 06-13-2018, 01:11 PM
Redneck10000 Redneck10000 is offline
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Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da  
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Default Model 64-5 factory dao, convert to sa/da

I have a model 64-5 in 38 special. It's a factory dao. I'm wanting to convert it to sa/da. I have read that all you have to do is replace the hammer. I've also read you have to replace the trigger as well. Anybody know for sure? Before anybody asks, it is a factory dao, it doesn't just have a bobbed hammer. As I understand it is a law enforcement turn in. I love the gun, just don't like that double action. Any insight is greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:04 PM
Andy Lowry Andy Lowry is offline
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I don't have an answer, but am tuning in to watch for suggestions. I have a 15 that's the same way, and am thinking about making the same change.
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:19 PM
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It depends on how the gun was made DAO. It could take anywhere from just replacing the hammer, just the trigger, or both. Can't tell until you open up the gun and look inside! The easy way? Send it back to S&W.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:03 PM
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Unless it is an heirloom, I would just sell it and buy what you want/need. Someone will want it as is and you will spend less in the long run.

I have a 2" DAO 64-6 and really like it. It works real well in a jacket pocket for quick trips to the store without the hammer spur.
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Old 06-14-2018, 07:49 AM
Redneck10000 Redneck10000 is offline
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I definitely have to replace the hammer as it has no spur. As that I'm trying to learn to smith, sending it to someone else is not an option. My Dad gave it to me, so it is somewhat of an heirloom. Although he gave it to me shortly after he bought it because he hated the dao also. Being that it has a four inch barrel, pocket carry to the store seems silly. I have other guns better suited for that. Thanks again for the insight. I'll probably just get a new hammer based on the model number, tear into it & see where that takes me.
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Old 06-14-2018, 09:15 AM
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CelticSire CelticSire is offline
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Before you tear into it, buy a copy of Kuhnhausen's Shop Manual for Smith and Wesson revolvers. It will keep you from doing the wrong thing the wrong way. The money you spend on buying the manual will be more than made up by not having making some costly mistakes. Amazon has it.
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Old 06-14-2018, 10:29 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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OK, just because there is no hammer spur doesn't necessarily mean you have DAO. Whacking off the hammer spur was real popular at one time for various reasons. There was a factory DAO hammer, but I've never seen one. No idea what they look like or how they were different.

Try-with a verified unloaded gun-rolling the hammer back with the trigger until you can use your thumb on the top of the hammer to try and cock it. If the hammer cocks, it still has a single action notch. OK, that still doesn't solve your problem, but you at least have a clue as to what's going on internally. Conversion to actual DAO has been done by modifying the hammer or the trigger or both. If your gun cocks, you have a clue that the trigger is probably OK.

I've never read Kuhnhausen's book, but I don't believe I've ever read a gunsmithing manual that didn't have some bad information (I've got factory manuals with margin notes for changes). Some of which may have been due to either changes of methods/parts/standards or goofs that proof reading missed. Still, probably a decent guide for getting the side plate off and the parts in and out without buggering something up. American Handgunner may have videos on their website.

If sending it back to S&W isn't an option, you could try to find an armorer or smith that knows S&W revolvers and would let you look over his shoulder. Some might enjoy sharing the knowledge, others will view you as stealing their bread & butter. You could at least ask.

Numrich has hammers. If that's all you need, all you probably have to do is change out/install the primary double action sear & spring from the original hammer and install the hammer. That'll save you a lot of fitting. Make sure you test for push off.

DO get Brownells S&W screwdriver if you don't have it. Has all the tips (possibly except for the grip screw) you'll need to work on S&W revolvers.

Last edited by WR Moore; 06-15-2018 at 08:56 AM.
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  #8  
Old 06-14-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
I've never read Kuhnhausen's book, but I don't believe I've ever read a gunsmithing manual that didn't have some bad information
Probably shouldn't judge something you don't know anything about.
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Old 06-14-2018, 11:26 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Yeah, I could have phrased that better. I've got his book on Mausers. Very informative book, especially on heat treatment of the various parts, but I've got a few quibbles here and there. Also note my comment on factory manuals-one of which the ink was hardly dry. That particular one was on the new models and one would have assumed had all the latest & greatest info. Not so. Things change, mistakes happen and some publishers are loath to make revisions. This is an issue with any hard copy information source. Like the Mauser book, I expect it's a worthwhile book, just not carved in stone and handed down from a mountain top.

Last edited by WR Moore; 06-14-2018 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:09 PM
Andy Lowry Andy Lowry is offline
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Quote:
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I've never read Kuhnhausen's book
It's worth the price of admission just to read what he has to say about MIM parts. You wouldn't think a revolver function and repair manual could be amusingly snarky...
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Old 06-14-2018, 02:29 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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Quote:
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It's worth the price of admission just to read what he has to say about MIM parts. You wouldn't think a revolver function and repair manual could be amusingly snarky...
What page is that on?
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2018, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Yeah, I could have phrased that better.
No worries, no offense taken. Like every reference material, there's bound to be errors. However, for someone who isn't familiar with the inner workings of Smith and Wesson revolvers, it's a fine place to start learning.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2018, 12:13 AM
lefty_jake lefty_jake is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
What page is that on?
The expanded 5th Edition of Kuhnhausen's S&W Manual has an additional section about newer revolvers. This section starts on page 184, and it is mostly about MIM. Kuhnhausen really does not like MIM, and the characterization as snarky is probably fair. I am pretty sure that this info is only in the 5th Edition and that the earlier versions do not mention MIM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 12:32 AM
lefty_jake lefty_jake is offline
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OP, I own a model 64 that is factory DAO. I have examined the hammer, and it does not have a single action notch. I believe the trigger is normal, but I am not certain about that.

You should try to cock your revolver by catching the hammer as described in post #7. If the revolver can be cocked, then you would know that it is not factory DAO and that the trigger is normal.

If it is factory DAO, then you can probably recoup some costs by selling the hammer. I don't think a DAO hammer has a great deal of value, but there are at least some people out there, including me, who like the factory DAO hammer.

I find that with a carefully polished double action trigger, I rarely use the single action, and I don't miss it if it is not available. My DAO model 64 has been set up so the double action is extremely smooth and a bit below 9 lb. It is very shootable and has never had a misfire with any ammo.
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Old 06-15-2018, 10:00 AM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty_jake View Post
The expanded 5th Edition of Kuhnhausen's S&W Manual has an additional section about newer revolvers. This section starts on page 184, and it is mostly about MIM. Kuhnhausen really does not like MIM, and the characterization as snarky is probably fair. I am pretty sure that this info is only in the 5th Edition and that the earlier versions do not mention MIM.
I have the 6th edition. It only goes to page 153.
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Old 06-15-2018, 01:20 PM
JSticks JSticks is offline
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OP's original question was can a factory DAO be converted to a double/single action by merely replacing the hammer. That is a frequent question that I have never seen a satisfactory answer to, but here are my thoughts that I hope someone would confirm or correct.

In short, it seems to me that what makes a factory DAO revolver is that the hammer, besides not having a spur, does not have a single action notch. Below is a picture of a 64-6 double/single action hammer where I have circled the notch.



The lock-work on a 64-6 DAO is depicted below. It may be hard to discern, but there is no single action notch. However, the trigger section that would "catch" the notch appears to be "sharp" enough that it would hold the notch when cocked in single action. In other words, I don't think S&W used a different trigger in the factory DOA's than it used in the double/single action revolvers.



So, I would conclude that a hammer switch would work. You may be curious as to why I didn't simply try the switch because I had the single action hammer. Well, I got the hammer after I sent the revolver to S&W fit a new style extractor that I naively thought was simply a "drop in" part. So caveat emptor on my thoughts on this subject!

Last edited by JSticks; 06-15-2018 at 01:24 PM.
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Old 06-15-2018, 03:59 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Thanks for posting that, good information. I'm rather surprised the spur is gone, a hearty yank on the hammer spur can get the gun working again if the trigger won't move.

Yes, this can happen. Glove material that prevents the trigger from going fully forward, cratered primer hanging up on the firing pin hole or burrs, defective cartridge rim, high primer and junk under the extractor that binds the cylinder.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:18 PM
Redneck10000 Redneck10000 is offline
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Wow. That escalated quickly. Just for clarification, this is a factory dao. No bobbed hammer. It has no single action notch. Even if you pull it back manually. My understanding is these pistols were built specifically for law enforcement, although I have no proof. It was bought through a company called J&g sales & I know they sold a **** ton of them. It's a beautiful gun. All stainless. 4in barrel in 38 special. I've already found a hammer for it through numrich for 60 bucks. Just gonna change it & see what happens.
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Old 06-15-2018, 06:54 PM
JSticks JSticks is offline
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Let us know if that works!
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