Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:07 AM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
Liked 365 Times in 171 Posts
Default Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4

I've owned the gun for 10 years or more and have not had a problem before. When I bought it the PO said it had a "trigger job", and it's evident by its very light trigger pull. However, its also the most accurate S&W I own.

Recently started having light strikes and no fire. Using handloads. Naturally, the first thing I did was check primer seating and that was OK. If I try hitting it a second time, maybe it will fire maybe not. Yesterday it took 4 tries with one round. If it doesn't fire on the second try, its still a light strike. When it finally does fire, the primer strike is normal.

I can go thru several cylinder reloads and it won't happen. Then, it starts again.

The same ammo is 100% OK in another .357 revolver.

Any suggestions appreciated...
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:16 AM
Rpg Rpg is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Denver area
Posts: 3,698
Likes: 8,902
Liked 6,432 Times in 2,188 Posts
Default

Be sure the strain screw is tightened down.

Trigger work often includes backing the strain screw out a bit and can back out further over time.

Last edited by Rpg; 06-28-2018 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:24 AM
nachogrande nachogrande is online now
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Gods waiting room, W/C FL
Posts: 2,702
Likes: 2,449
Liked 3,101 Times in 1,401 Posts
Default WHAT DID THE "TRIGGER JOB" ENTAIL?

If it worked fine for 10 years, it sounds like something has changed. (duh) Start with the simple/easy/cheap stuff first IMO. Look at the (hammer mounted?) firing pin, FP channel clean/clear/lubed?, hammer pathway not gunked up?, springs weakened?, As mentioned above, has the strain screw loosened? still have the original springs?

Last edited by nachogrande; 06-28-2018 at 10:29 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 06-28-2018, 10:43 AM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
Liked 365 Times in 171 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachogrande View Post
If it worked fine for 10 years, it sounds like something has changed. (duh) Start with the simple/easy/cheap stuff first IMO. Look at the (hammer mounted?) firing pin, FP channel clean/clear/lubed?, hammer pathway not gunked up?, springs weakened?, As mentioned above, has the strain screw loosened? still have the original springs?
All good comments and all have been looked at.

Clean and oiled for sure. Strain screw tight. I don't know if the springs are original, since i bought it used, but I never changed anything. Springs weak? - how do i tell?
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 06-28-2018, 11:11 AM
Arquebus357 Arquebus357 is online now
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Atlanta GA
Posts: 186
Likes: 3
Liked 203 Times in 83 Posts
Default

You really can't tell without gunsmithing equipment. If it was me, I would buy a new hammer spring, install it, and see if that fixes the problem. If it doesn't, I would need to look for another culprit.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:17 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 5,178
Liked 2,155 Times in 930 Posts
Default

In that situation, usually the main thing that changes is endshake. If the cylinder has too much play front to back, (more than .002), then the hammer may have to move the entire cylinder forward before there is anything solid to strike against. Moving the cylinder cushions the blow of the firing pin on the primer.

It could be something else too, we are just guessing without the gun in hand.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:49 PM
ken158 ken158 is online now
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: VA
Posts: 2,735
Likes: 514
Liked 1,508 Times in 743 Posts
Default

Most "trigger job" gunsmiths merely cut springs and filed the main spring screw to accomplish their task for unknowing gun owners. Cheap and quick but the end result often ends up where you are now. New springs and screw area a suggestion but someone of knowledge needs to see it.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #8  
Old 06-28-2018, 12:59 PM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is online now
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 6,347
Likes: 290
Liked 7,014 Times in 2,947 Posts
Default

If there is a possibility that the strain screw has been shortened maybe you could try shimming the screw with and empty primer cup over the end of the screw. It would be worth a try, and if it works you can go with that "fix" or get a replacement screw.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #9  
Old 06-28-2018, 01:54 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,161
Likes: 16
Liked 423 Times in 231 Posts
Default

I have a M686 that started doing the same thing. A couple of years ago I installed a Wolff ribbed mainspring. Gun never missed a beat until about a month ago. I was going to replace the spring but first tried the old primer with the guts removed trick. since then I've put around 800 to 900 rounds through it with no more issues. Not sure why it started with the light strikes all of a sudden but at least for now the primer trick seems to be working.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 06-28-2018, 02:30 PM
David.Hylton David.Hylton is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 61
Likes: 11
Liked 61 Times in 15 Posts
Default

Any ammo changes or primer changes? I had a 640 that would not consistently fire Hornady ammo, but it would shoot everything else that I tried without issue.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-28-2018, 03:03 PM
R*E R*E is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 171
Likes: 78
Liked 103 Times in 57 Posts
Default

Did you clean the cylinders thoroughly so that the rounds are fully seated? If the cylinders have carbon rings, the hammer strikes will push the rounds forward until they are seated.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 06-28-2018, 07:26 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
Liked 365 Times in 171 Posts
Default

Endshake is not detectable - its tight as a drum.

The strain screw sure looks like it hasn't been touched. I compared it to other Smiths.

The brass is the same, as are the primers, except for maybe a new brick. I only use CCIs.

As a matter of fact, it started after my mid-Winter gun cleaning marathon. I do all my guns in the off season. The cylinders look fine.

Now that i think of it, the only change was the load and the bullets. I used to use 158 SWC lead, but switched to Berry's 158 plated for outdoor use. I guess next time I'll try a box of lead and see what happens...

Thanks for all the help so far...
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 06-28-2018, 08:53 PM
Tjohns42 Tjohns42 is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 37
Likes: 5
Liked 23 Times in 17 Posts
Default

I just had a trigger job done and my local smith had a chart of pull weights that varied by primer brand. CCI was at something like 56oz on .38 special vs Winchester SP at 46oz (these numbers are specific to how he does his action jobs and should only be used as an example in this case). Those are some of the hardest primers you can buy. I would try to check your trigger pull and give your strain screw a nudge to see if that helps. If it started during your off season deep cleans you could’ve bumped that screw a little and a little is all it takes when you’re on the edge with your pull weight.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 06-28-2018, 08:53 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 5,178
Liked 2,155 Times in 930 Posts
Default

Bullets won't make any difference in misfires. CCI is the hardest primer to set off. I would take out the mainspring and straighten it out some, then put it back in and try that. It will make the trigger pull a little heavier, but may set off all the primers.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 07-17-2018, 05:41 PM
RVRSMITH RVRSMITH is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Florida
Posts: 10
Likes: 5
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

[QUOTE=GypsmJim;140082116]I've owned the gun for 10 years or more and have not had a problem before. When I bought it the PO said it had a "trigger job", and it's evident by its very light trigger pull. However, its also the most accurate S&W I own.

Recently started having light strikes and no fire. Using handloads. Naturally, the first thing I did was check primer seating and that was OK. If I try hitting it a second time, maybe it will fire maybe not. Yesterday it took 4 tries with one round. If it doesn't fire on the second try, its still a light strike. When it finally does fire, the primer strike is normal.

I can go thru several cylinder reloads and it won't happen. Then, it starts again.

The same ammo is 100% OK in another .357 revolver.

Any suggestions appreciated...[/QUOTE
Sounds to me the mainspring is on the verge of not being reliable would be my first guess.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-21-2018, 11:46 AM
Marshal Kane Marshal Kane is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 120
Likes: 140
Liked 92 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
Bullets won't make any difference in misfires. CCI is the hardest primer to set off. I would take out the mainspring and straighten it out some, then put it back in and try that. It will make the trigger pull a little heavier, but may set off all the primers.
I don't think I would want to try straightening out a mainspring. Springs are heat treated to return to a specified shape and once it's changed, can't be changed back. I would suggest installing a new main spring instead.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:03 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 5,178
Liked 2,155 Times in 930 Posts
Default

A properly heat treated spring can be reshaped (slightly) and will hold the new shape. I've done it for 40 years.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-21-2018, 06:49 PM
jimmyj's Avatar
jimmyj jimmyj is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 8,637
Likes: 1,010
Liked 8,583 Times in 2,632 Posts
Default

Install a new mainspring and mainspring tension screw
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 07-22-2018, 09:22 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 691
Likes: 68
Liked 596 Times in 348 Posts
Default

Leaf spring bending, when done carefully and not making huge changes in its shape, can be done. Making significant changes in the spring's shape or repeated re-bending of the spring will weaken it. I'm wondering if in the performance of that trigger job the spring's shape was significantly altered or repeatedly altered to get that light trigger.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #20  
Old 07-22-2018, 10:30 AM
Marshal Kane Marshal Kane is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 120
Likes: 140
Liked 92 Times in 61 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toolguy View Post
A properly heat treated spring can be reshaped (slightly) and will hold the new shape. I've done it for 40 years.
If you've been doing this for 40 years, I'll just have to admit that you're right.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-22-2018, 02:46 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 5,178
Liked 2,155 Times in 930 Posts
Default

I don't like to say someone else is wrong, because oftentimes there are a lot of variables involved. I just say what I believe to be true, based on long term experience. There is plenty of room for other experiences and opinions. That's how you have a worthwhile discussion. Sometimes something will be absolutely wrong. Then I will say what I think or say nothing.

As for the springs, they have to be of good quality spring steel and correctly heat treated. I've seen plenty that aren't. The S&W (carbon steel) mainsprings have been consistently very good over the years except for the SS ones they made for a while. Those have an S stamped on them. They are junk.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 07-23-2018, 08:27 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
Liked 365 Times in 171 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by R*E View Post
Did you clean the cylinders thoroughly so that the rounds are fully seated? If the cylinders have carbon rings, the hammer strikes will push the rounds forward until they are seated.
If the rounds are not fully seated, wouldn't the hammer strike be bigger?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:58 PM
Marshal Kane Marshal Kane is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 120
Likes: 140
Liked 92 Times in 61 Posts
Default

No, some of the inertia in the hammer is lost pushing the cartridge foreward. The hardest "whack" your hammer nose is going to impact on the primer is when the cartridge rim is right up against the cylinder's charge hole.

Last edited by Marshal Kane; 07-24-2018 at 01:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-03-2018, 02:59 PM
Beruisis Beruisis is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hockley, TX
Posts: 380
Likes: 373
Liked 175 Times in 95 Posts
Default

Federal primers = good for light strikes.
Soft primer.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-03-2018, 03:34 PM
Nightowl's Avatar
Nightowl Nightowl is offline
SWCA Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 4,111
Likes: 859
Liked 1,468 Times in 861 Posts
Default

Personally, I do not use CCI primers! But, I want my guns to fire all ammunition reliably. In addition, I discovered years ago that a firm trigger actually aids in accuracy and a light trigger pull messes me up. You may not have the same problem. :-)

Given the gun is in full spec otherwise, light strikes are virtually always mainspring issues. If it has a ribbed aftermarket spring, the strain screw will sometimes round and engage deeper in the open side of the V causing a lighter strike.

As Toolguy noted, Smith springs are excellent and seldom cause issues unless altered. I do not use aftermarket springs in any of my guns, except those few that come from the factory with ribbed springs, which I think they did not make. (Although I don't know that for a fact, but they look like Wolfe springs to me)
__________________
Richard Gillespie
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-03-2018, 04:34 PM
Kurusu's Avatar
Kurusu Kurusu is online now
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Portugal
Posts: 1,721
Likes: 10,363
Liked 3,985 Times in 1,318 Posts
Default

This may sound stupid but. Do you have another L or K frame around? If so try the other one main spring and see what happens. If it fires well get a new main spring.
__________________
Non omnia possumus omnes
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-03-2018, 05:12 PM
Kenneth07ex Kenneth07ex is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: East Texas
Posts: 174
Likes: 57
Liked 112 Times in 67 Posts
Default

I would try the primer under the strain screw first. And if that works, I'd order a new mainspring. They're cheap, and easy to replace. Require no fitting, just remove, and replace. However, if you like that easy trigger, it'll probably be significantly harder with a factory spring. So I'd consider an aftermarket reduced power spring. Personally, I have trouble believing that's the problem, because you've said that it's only a part time problem. I'd think a weak spring would be always weak. But the spring is the easiest to check, so I'd certainly start there.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-03-2018, 10:13 PM
ontargetagain ontargetagain is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 798
Likes: 601
Liked 486 Times in 273 Posts
Default

Is there any chance you have changed the grips on this gun? The grip screw if in a different location could possibly interfere with the mainspring, and it doesn't take much as I once found out!
Did you by chance change the type of tool used to seat your primers?

Karl
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-04-2018, 08:02 PM
GypsmJim GypsmJim is offline
Member
Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4 Light Strikes on a S&W Model 19-4  
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 560
Likes: 1
Liked 365 Times in 171 Posts
Default

Here's an update...

No grip change and no change in the priming equipment.

I diligently cleaned the chambers with a brush and now I'm confident they are clean as a whistle.

Ran a box thru and all 50 fired first time. I DID notice a very slight difference in the depth and size of the primer strike, but none were as small as the no-fires before, and of course all rounds fired.

Thanks to all for the help and good suggestions. Were the chambers dirty, or is the spring still in question?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Model 12-1 light strikes Mzuri S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 11 10-27-2017 05:58 PM
Light Primer strikes with a Model 69 bronco45 S&W-Smithing 4 06-18-2016 04:18 AM
Model 66-8 light strikes MattNH S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 10 12-29-2015 11:59 PM
Light strikes - Model 10 rajbcpa S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 16 06-10-2015 04:24 PM
Model 41 FTF light primer strikes dpsix S&W-Smithing 10 09-25-2012 12:14 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:15 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)