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Old 07-11-2018, 08:04 PM
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LLOYD17 LLOYD17 is offline
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Default Pre-war N Frame DA hitch

I've got a pre-war N Frame that has a bit of an issue in DA. SA is perfectly fine, but when cycling DA, right at the beginning of the trigger pull there is a hitch that takes varying degrees of force to overcome. Sometimes the hitch is nearly imperceptible and other times the trigger and hammer get completely hung up in the hand-off and jams.

I think I've narrowed it down to an issue with the sear I believe but I'm not sure if it's an issue of being too short or just some grittiness that keeps it from fully resetting. Since the DA pull seems fine a points and degrades at other times to full jam, perhaps the sear is getting hung up. I have sonic cleaned the hammer and trigger but can do more soaking if needed.

Since I'm a self-taught hobbyist, I just did a bunch of swapping parts to see what happened. First I tried a 455 MK II but those parts didn't work at all (I thought it was only the TL and the 1917 that were drastically different). Then I used an early 30's 1926.

455 MK II action


1926 action


Problem action


The two with their original parts still installed


Where the hang-up or hitch occurs


just the 1926 hammer swapped in


just the 1926 trigger swapped in


Conclusions:
1. Swap in 1926 hammer only - DA is great
2. Swap in 1926 trigger only - worse DA issues, the sear is resting on the trigger and completely binds up nearly every pull.

The difference between the two sears is evident with the smaller curved one being the one with issues. (1926 on the left)




The area on the triggers that engage the sear are different between the two guns with the 1926 being about 0.008(ish) thicker. (1926 on the left)


>>>Is this just a case of replacing the sear and having it fitted to the original trigger or is a new trigger also needed?

Thanks!


The rest of the gun glamour shot
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:26 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is offline
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Oftentimes in a situation like this, a slight amount of fitting will cure the problem. It's one of those things best done with gun in hand to see exactly what is doing what, rather than guessing about it long distance.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:36 PM
john323 john323 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LLOYD17 View Post
I've got a pre-war N Frame that has a bit of an issue in DA. SA is perfectly fine, but when cycling DA, right at the beginning of the trigger pull there is a hitch that takes varying degrees of force to overcome. Sometimes the hitch is nearly imperceptible and other times the trigger and hammer get completely hung up in the hand-off and jams.

I think I've narrowed it down to an issue with the sear I believe but I'm not sure if it's an issue of being too short or just some grittiness that keeps it from fully resetting. Since the DA pull seems fine a points and degrades at other times to full jam, perhaps the sear is getting hung up. I have sonic cleaned the hammer and trigger but can do more soaking if needed.

Since I'm a self-taught hobbyist, I just did a bunch of swapping parts to see what happened. First I tried a 455 MK II but those parts didn't work at all (I thought it was only the TL and the 1917 that were drastically different). Then I used an early 30's 1926.

455 MK II action


1926 action


Problem action


The two with their original parts still installed


Where the hang-up or hitch occurs


just the 1926 hammer swapped in


just the 1926 trigger swapped in


Conclusions:
1. Swap in 1926 hammer only - DA is great
2. Swap in 1926 trigger only - worse DA issues, the sear is resting on the trigger and completely binds up nearly every pull.

The difference between the two sears is evident with the smaller curved one being the one with issues. (1926 on the left)




The area on the triggers that engage the sear are different between the two guns with the 1926 being about 0.008(ish) thicker. (1926 on the left)


>>>Is this just a case of replacing the sear and having it fitted to the original trigger or is a new trigger also needed?

Thanks!


The rest of the gun glamour shot
Looks like the pickup on the original trigger needs to be fitted. Could also break the edge where it comes in contact with the sear. Use a diamond hone.

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Old 07-11-2018, 10:31 PM
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Just like you, I'm an 'advanced amateur'.
Even though there were some changes in design, most of them were for very slight enhancements in feel or improvements in cost. Most pre-war long action parts can be interchanged with minor fitting required in some cases.
I've found a lot of DA 'hitches' were caused by mainspring strain screw issues.
Beyond that, as mentioned above, stoning the dragging leading edges often fixes the DA feel.
I've also found cases where the mainspring has been replaced and the 'fingers' on the stirrup end bind. A little grinding fixes this. If you ever swap in a Wolfe mainspring in a pre-war N, this is a must.
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Old Yesterday, 07:54 PM
Hondo44 Hondo44 is online now
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I would put all parts back in their original guns.

Then I would do some observation trouble shooting. The photo of the original gun with hammer at the point of the 'hitch' is good. Now locate the hammer(s) of one or both of the other two guns at the same position in the cycle and compare them to the problem gun.

You should be able to identify what's the difference in parts relationships in the working guns compared to the gun that binds. That will indicate where fitting is required or if there's a part that needs replacing.

If I change hammers in any gun, I always use the hammer fly (DA sear) from the original hammer. Because it's usually the source of the problem.
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Last edited by Hondo44; Yesterday at 07:56 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 11:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44 View Post
I would put all parts back in their original guns.

Then I would do some observation trouble shooting. The photo of the original gun with hammer at the point of the 'hitch' is good. Now locate the hammer(s) of one or both of the other two guns at the same position in the cycle and compare them to the problem gun.

You should be able to identify what's the difference in parts relationships in the working guns compared to the gun that binds. That will indicate where fitting is required or if there's a part that needs replacing.

If I change hammers in any gun, I always use the hammer fly (DA sear) from the original hammer. Because it's usually the source of the problem.
Theyíre all back together at this point. I havenít done the comparison, but that sounds like a good idea. Iíve got a couple other hammers enroute that just need the small parts I can play around with.

As to the other answers referring to real gunsmithing, Iíll definitely leave that to a professional as I would probably just make it worse.

Thanks for the help. Iím just glad it sounds like I can retain the hammer and trigger.
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