669 hammer question (Video inside)

Merc6 · #1 07-26-2018, 07:06 PM

I recently got a 669 and went to the range with it. It had some issues out the box but after lube on the rails and barrel it completely went away. Failure to eject and double feed issue same time. After the original issues went away I fired the full 12 round mag. I say about 180 rounds went though this session. Brass, steel, aluminum 115-124 grain fmj and jhp. Ate all of it just fine as the reputation was for these pistols.

Fast forward I took it apart to clean it and when testing it out on reassembly I got this.... Is this normal?

Permission given to modify link into forum code. I seem to forget how to get that to work.

TBY serial #

YouTube

Merc6 · #2 07-26-2018, 08:27 PM

From my other post and reply back to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyjones

Welcome !

I have a couple of 469 and 6906's. I've never seen that hammer behavior.

Only thing I can think of is there's an issue with how the strut and the main spring interface. A DA revolver with a loose strain screw behaves the same way.
Maybe something is going on with the center grip piece, cap, spring. I'll take one apart later and see if I can create the issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merc6

Thanks. I got a warranty with it from the *new* Gander and was wondering if it was a simple fix or just take it back. The gun looked like it was un fired till I came along. Barrel had 0 wear marks until the 1st few shots taken. After 4 mags of 10 rounds and lube it went away and was flawless up till now. Once it was working fine I went all 12 rounds.

Alk8944 · #3 07-26-2018, 08:37 PM

First mistake was shooting the gun before cleaning and lubricating it as the instructions tell you to do. Second, repeatedly snapping on whatever obstruction is catching the hammer is simply causing unknown damage to the pistol for the sake of emphasizing a problem that may be "fixed" by simply dis-assembling the gun and making sure there are no chips, etc in it causing the issue. You would be amazed at the **** I have found inside brand new firearms of all types over the years!

If this doesn't fix it, and you can't determine what the trouble is then call 800-331-0852, get a mailing label and send the gun back to S&W.

Merc6 · #4 07-26-2018, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alk8944

First mistake was shooting the gun before cleaning and lubricating it as the instructions tell you to do. Second, repeatedly snapping on whatever obstruction is catching the hammer is simply causing unknown damage to the pistol for the sake of emphasizing a problem that may be "fixed" by simply dis-assembling the gun and making sure there are no chips, etc in it causing the issue. You would be amazed at the **** I have found inside brand new firearms of all types over the years!

If this doesn't fix it, and you can't determine what the trouble is then call 800-331-0852, get a mailing label and send the gun back to S&W.

The gun was pretty much covered in lube when I took it apart after purchase and before shooting. Unknown what brand it was but I used the Amsoil one I've been using in my other guns after the (2) 3 round mag test fires.

Yeah the repeated dry wasn't the best idea, was trying to show it was a not always every time situation.

*Quick edit* took it apart and riding the hammer it falls where it should. Don't see anything "not gun like" from up top so could it be a slide, mag disconnect issue? I'll take it in to Gander and see if they will send it off as I have horrible luck when sending guns off free and on my dime.

Jimmyjones · #5 07-26-2018, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyjones

Does the 669 pass the recall test?

With the hammer at half cock, the decocker should drop the hammer. If the decocker doesn't move at the half cock notch and the hammer doesn't fall, it qualifies for the recall, although I don't know if S&W is still doing it.

My 669 (TAFxxxx) does, my 469's (Axxxxxx) don't. But they all shoot fine.

Did you have the grips off ? I purposely reassembled one with out the hammer spring cap in it and got similar results.

Also, they have the magazine disconnect, mag out no hammer action, with the slide off, the mag disconnect isn't in play

KAC · #6 07-26-2018, 11:37 PM

Try this: Make sure the gun is empty, go through all the steps you did in the video. Before you press the trigger drop a pencil, eraser end first, into the barrel, point the muzzle up, then press the trigger. If the hammer falls all the way down like it's supposed to then you should inspect the hammer spring to see if it has been shortened. A shortened spring will allow the hammer to bounce back to the safety notch.
KAC

Merc6 · #7 07-27-2018, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmyjones

Does the 669 pass the recall test?

With the hammer at half cock, the decocker should drop the hammer. If the decocker doesn't move at the half cock notch and the hammer doesn't fall, it qualifies for the recall, although I don't know if S&W is still doing it.

My 669 (TAFxxxx) does, my 469's (Axxxxxx) don't. But they all shoot fine.

Did you have the grips off ? I purposely reassembled one with out the hammer spring cap in it and got similar results.

Also, they have the magazine disconnect, mag out no hammer action, with the slide off, the mag disconnect isn't in play

Grips off and pressed up on mag disconnect. It all looks the same when it goes all the way down or not.

Started at half cock hammer and fell to at rest safe position per this...

Quote:

SMITH & WESSON
MODEL 439, 459, 469, 539, 559, 639, 659 & 669,
9MM CALIBER, PISTOLS

RECALL: This warning is issued for Smith & Wesson 9mm Semiautomatic Pistols which were shipped from the factory between May 1, 1983 and February 26, 1986. Included are Models 439, 459, 469, 539, 559, 639, 659 and 669 but only with serial numbers in the following ranges:

A745000-A865000 and TAA0001-TAL9999

The pistols within the serial number ranges listed above must be inspected for function from the half-cock notch. The safety mechanism will function in a perfectly satisfactory manner in many of these pistols, as well as in all pistols with serial numbers outside these ranges and in all pistols shipped from the factory after February 26, 1986.

Every one of these models bearing a serial number within the ranges listed above should be carefully inspected by the owner for this special condition. To determine if your pistol has this condition, do the following:

Point the muzzle in a safe direction.
Completely unload the pistol. Check both the magazine and chamber to assure they are empty of live rounds.
With your finger off the trigger, operate the manual safety with the unloaded pistol fully cocked and fully uncocked so that you can recognize how the manual safety looks and feels when it is fully in the safe position. The hammer will fall from the fully cocked position into the "at rest" position when the manual safety is moved down toward a safe position. When you are thoroughly familiar with placing the manual safety fully in the safe position, place it up in the fire position.
With the manual safety in the fire position, place the hammer in the half-cock notch:

For the Model 439, 459, 539, 559, 639 and 659, put the hammer of your pistol in the half-cock notch by pulling the hammer to the rear slowly until you hear the first click and then releasing the hammer so that it catches between the full cock and the "at rest" position.

For the Model 469 and 669, put the hammer of your pistol in the half-cock notch by inserting an empty magazine and slowly pulling the trigger until you hear the first click and then releasing the trigger so that the hammer catches between the full cock and the "at rest" position.

With the hammer in the half-cock notch, push the manual safety down toward the safe position. If you can push the manual safety fully into the safe position and the hammer falls into the "at rest" position, your pistol does not require modification. If you cannot push the manual safety fully into the safe position or the hammer does not fall into the "at rest" position, your pistol is being recalled for modification free of charge.

Recalled pistols should be sent promptly to a Smith & Wesson Warranty Service Center for modification. Call 800-633-0164 for the name and location of the one nearest you or for answers to nay questions you may have. Law enforcement departments who have pistols, which exhibit this condition, should contact the Smith & Wesson Service Department to arrange for modifying the pistols.

Source:

AFTE Journal, July 1986; Volume 18, Number 3:68
AFTE Journal, January 1987; Volume 19, Number 1:36
American Rifleman, July 1986; page 12
Shooting Times, August 1986; page 23
California Department of Justice Firearms Safety Note 86-2

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAC

Try this: Make sure the gun is empty, go through all the steps you did in the video. Before you press the trigger drop a pencil, eraser end first, into the barrel, point the muzzle up, then press the trigger. If the hammer falls all the way down like it's supposed to then you should inspect the hammer spring to see if it has been shortened. A shortened spring will allow the hammer to bounce back to the safety notch.
KAC

Did all that, when hammer falls the cylindrical object flies out the barrel. It seems like the hammer only falls down consistently when something is right up against where the firing pin hits. I'll probably just take it back tomorrow after I get off work in the AM.

Merc6 · #8 07-27-2018, 03:23 PM

Ok decided to go for it and look inside after watching a few YT videos from blubellt2 and a 3rd gen. I literally see nothing in there besides lube from PO or Gander. It does feel gritty when you manually push the hammer bar up just before it catches on the draw bar at the half cock notch. Would this be ideal to do? My Glock was a bit more easier to do the $025. polish on on OMG did it do wonders. For the time being I just cleaned and re assembled.Same thing going on.

YouTube

Merc6 · #9 07-29-2018, 01:53 PM

Gun sent off to SWT.

Merc6 · #10 08-18-2018, 11:44 PM

Gun back from SWT. In the AM I will go pick it up and see what they did in the notes.

Merc6 · #11 08-19-2018, 05:56 PM

Turns out SWT refused it because it was too old. Sent to a different shop where they milled parts of the slide to allow the hammer to fall unobstructed. Open box, safe safe, clear clear. Pull trigger and hammer falls to half cock 1st try. Gun sold back to shop and I might have 3 59XX 15 round mags with PGS adapters brand new up for sale soon. I'll make the separate post in a bit if refund process fails.

JohnHL · #12 08-20-2018, 02:25 PM

"they milled parts of the slide" in an attempt to cure a re-assembly problem?

Yikes!

John

Merc6 · #13 08-20-2018, 05:05 PM

Yeah I was so happy it was back had mags and ammo and a new hostler ready to walk out and go shoot it like 1 minute down the street. Some of it you could totally see on the outside. I was going to try and get over it since I had saved a link to a 6906 slide so I could get night sights but when the gun 100% did what this thread was created for out the box it time to walk away. Mags are on their way back the adapters still waiting to hear back.