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  #1  
Old 08-04-2018, 11:03 AM
27 Man 27 Man is offline
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Default Cracked frame on model 38

I just discovered that the frame is cracked on my airweight bodyguard. The crack is directly below the barrel where the barrel screws into the frame. I have no idea when this occurred but needless to say I have retired it. Is this type of thing repairable or do I have a really nice pristine wall hanger now? I bought this gun new back in the early 80s. I would post a picture but haven’t figured that out yet.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:08 AM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is offline
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I would call S&W and see what they have to say about it. You are correct to retire it, as more shooting could cause the barrel and frame to part company.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:18 AM
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Toolguy has given you excellent advice, I highly recommend following that advice.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:32 AM
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That's not repairable, take Toolguy's advice. There simply isn't much metal in the threaded boss in a J frame and cracks in the yoke cut aren't as scarce as hen's teeth. Particularly with the alloy frames.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:41 AM
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Yea, paperweight. Sorry glue or Duct Tape dont work.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:58 AM
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Factory has been good to me. bet they will take care of it...be armed with good pictures to send them..call and discuss it first. let us know
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:22 PM
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I’ll call S&W on Monday. Anyone in particular you recommend I talk with?Thanks for info but I think I know what I am going to hear.
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:42 PM
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Are these cracks caused by metal imperfections, overpowered cartridges, over torquing barrel, or magic?
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
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Are these cracks caused by metal imperfections, overpowered cartridges, over torquing barrel, or magic?
Overtorqued barrels and shooting, and not always high pressured ammo.
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:33 PM
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If it is a model 38, it may have been made before the "Lifetime Warranty" era. If so, depending on with whom you speak at the factory, they may tell you there is no recourse or offer you a very good (discounted) deal on a new equivalent model. You can understand with a 30 year old gun with no history why they may be reluctant to replace it for free. Please let us know what happens?
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
Yea, paperweight. Sorry glue or Duct Tape dont work.
You are forgetting about Flex Glue

It will fix anything
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:44 PM
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Are these cracks caused by metal imperfections, overpowered cartridges, over torquing barrel, or magic?
This has been occuring since Smith and Wesson began making allow framed revolvers more than half a century ago

This is not limited to J-frames. It happens to the K and N frames as well. They all crack in the same spot

The rifling in Smith and Wesson barrels is such that every time a round is fired in the the revolver, the torque that occurs as the projectile engages the rifling tightens the barrel

That hammering sometimes causes the alloy frames to crack, even the Scandium framed guns are susceptible to this
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Old 08-04-2018, 02:43 PM
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They replaced a cracked-frame Model 38 for me about ten or so years ago with a lesser gun, but least they replaced it. I don't know whether they still do this, but it's certainly worth a call.
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Old 08-04-2018, 03:28 PM
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See if it falls under the Lifetime Warranty! If it does - you will get a new gun. If not, you have a new piece of wall art or parts donor.
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:41 PM
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27 man, Not safe to shoot, not repairable, and a wall hanger as is. If S&W warranties it, I suspect they would just replace the gun. I've seen photos of the cracked alloy frames, and tend to examine my 642 more often than in past. That area beneath the barrel is super thin. I'm surprised it holds up as well as it does. My perspective on alloy frames in general, is that I accept the fact that they may not be as durable as steel, in exchange for their lighter weight. My 642 has not cracked.........yet. But my Alloy framed Colt Commander cracked after only moderate use with standard pressure ammo........ymmv

FWIW, I have occasionally dealt with S&W, for both warranty and paid work, over a lot of years. I don't know what their current attitude might be, but they have routinely gone above and beyond for me.
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Old 08-04-2018, 04:57 PM
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27 man; Please let us know what you hear from S&W!!
Thanks!
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Old 08-04-2018, 05:11 PM
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I had a similar situation last year. Crack under barrel on airweight frame. I bought it used, originally made 1982.

Called S&W, sent them pictures. At their request, I shipped it to them. They called stating that they could not return it, but they could give me my choice of a new 637, 638, or 642, shipped to my FFL. So I took the 642.

Last edited by NovaJoe; 08-04-2018 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 08-04-2018, 06:48 PM
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If you really think its a paperweight and want to sell it for paperweight price, PM me.

I have long suspected these guns were cracked from the factory and will provide years of service in their cracked condition. I'd love to prove it by shooting one until (presumably) nothing happens.
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:27 PM
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Thanks for the offer sig220.45 but I would hate to see someone injured.
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Old 08-04-2018, 09:28 PM
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Thanks for the offer sig220.45 but I would hate to see someone injured.
Ok, but what do you think would happen?
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:45 PM
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You read more about such failures with the Model 12 snubby. I have seen three cracked M12s personally, all cracked in the same place. I have not seen a definitive reason for this, but many believe that it is the result of over-tightening of the barrel at the factory. I am not so sure that's the reason, but it is a possible reason. I cannot imagine it is a dangerous condition, but it is possible that the barrel may go flying off somewhere downrange, although I don't know of that ever happening. Repairable? Definitely not. You have a paperweight. Or at best, a parts donor gun.

This is the principal reason I will not consider buying any alloy framed S&W. I don't trust them, never had one, never will. I'll stick with steel.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:49 PM
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S&W will certainly replace it. I had a pristine nickeled 38 that had the same crack appear. They gave me a 638 as a replacement. This was about 3-4 years ago.
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Old 08-04-2018, 11:12 PM
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Last summer I discovered a crack in the same place on my M-37. S&W requested it be sent back. After examining it they replaced it under guarantee with a brand new M-637. I am happy.
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Old 08-05-2018, 07:58 AM
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I have a nickel 37 that is cracked, I wonder if they would replace it but not with another 37 variant. I would be more interested in a 351C.
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:53 AM
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I have a nickel 37 that is cracked, I wonder if they would replace it but not with another 37 variant. I would be more interested in a 351C.
You'll get a list of options for even replacement, and a dollar value for credit. I recently replaced a cracked 637 with a 442, even swap. That 351C stickers higher than a 37, so you'll get credit towards the price if that's what you want . . .
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Old 08-05-2018, 08:54 PM
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Are these cracks caused by metal imperfections, overpowered cartridges, over torquing barrel, or magic?
Chiefbob81 it can very well be some of the issues stated.
During the manufacturing process the frames "recievers" are heat treated, beneath the barrel portion of the frame becomes a little more brittle due to how thin it is. Now add a heat, kenetic energy and a slight misaligned cylinder, if you fire a round into the forcing cone again and again where those thin threads are it can and will eventually fail, and as others have stated you absolutly should retire the frame.
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Old 08-05-2018, 11:43 PM
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Another thing that may add to the problem is that the coefficient of expansion for steel and aluminum is not the same. Gun warming up and cooling causes the barrel and frame to expand and contract at different rates causing stress. Aluminum work hardens much faster than steel.
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:18 AM
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It would be interesting to take an air weight with "the crack" remove the barrel, coat threads with Belsona, an industrial 2 part metal epoxie, then shoot it to see when it failed. Might be surprised by how long it lasts, but I could never really trust it. But, let me ask this.. If it fired once would it be as trustworthy as one without the crack that may well crack on the very next shot fired???

I picked up a very nice alloy pre model 38 and have never fired it. I guess it is my safe queen.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:45 PM
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Update:I called S&W this morning and explained my situation to Josh. He told me to send them the gun and they would evaluate it and either repair or replace it. He sent me instructions on how to send it along with a FedEx mailing label. Should they decide to replace it, would I have to go through a FFL or could they FedEx it to me as they would with a repaired gun? Didn’t think to ask at the time. Also, is anyone aware if a 638 is available without a lock like the 642 and 637 are? Turnaround time is about 90 days.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sigp220.45 View Post
If you really think its a paperweight and want to sell it for paperweight price, PM me.

I have long suspected these guns were cracked from the factory and will provide years of service in their cracked condition. I'd love to prove it by shooting one until (presumably) nothing happens.
...if you ever do experiment...please post the results as I have the same feeling you do...

...frame has stress relieved itself and will continue on with the recommended ammo...
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Old 09-15-2022, 06:48 PM
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My S&W model 38 Airweight Bodyguard .38 Special J frame cracked, too.
Called S&W, and they said it could not be fixed, shot, nor replaced.
Our Holstein hardware store in Whitesburg, KY sold more S&W revolvers than any store in the U.S., but I will never buy another one!
S&W should have accepted responsibility, and recalled these defective revolvers before someone got maimed or killed!
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:10 PM
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
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You are forgetting about Flex Glue

It will fix anything
I've seen demonstrations of glues to bond metal where the bond is stronger than the metal.
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Old 09-15-2022, 08:10 PM
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Have one just like it...in the same condition. It was one of the Michigan State Police backup guns with the blue frame and stainless cylinder.

Carried a 50s vintage 42 for many years as a backup gun to the holster duty weapon...it also cracked...

That is two out of the four J-frame Airweight .38s that I have owned that have cracked...the other two went down the road before they did do. Only two J .38s I have now are a 60-1 2" with adjustable sights and a 649-2...

No more for me...

...and I wonder...have I missed something in that I have never seen or heard of a J-frame alloy .22 like a 43 or 317 cracking... I have owned several of both and zero issues...

Somewhere I read a long time ago that the life expectancy of an alloy frame .38 J-frame was 300 rounds...anyone else ever hear that...

Bob

Last edited by SuperMan; 09-15-2022 at 08:13 PM.
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Old 09-15-2022, 08:29 PM
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I suppose that I am fortunate, that I am on my 3rd Airweight model 638 with no issues. One was lost in a divorce with few miles on it, so we won't count that one. The 1st one from the mid 90's fired a few hundred rounds, and was carried a lot, for maybe 10 years. It got sold maybe 15 years ago while I was in a stupid state of mind.

I searched a good while to find another 638 no dash to replace it, and have a lot of 148 gr wadcutters through it since. No problems with any of them. But I don't hot rod them either.

I've always been of a mind that a wadcutter was a good defensive round, and pretty much stuck to them. With a few +p's along the way for grins.

I like these little Airweight revolvers.
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
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Somewhere I read a long time ago that the life expectancy of an alloy frame .38 J-frame was 300 rounds...anyone else ever hear that...

Bob
I'll probably put 200 through my 442 this weekend. One of many such weekends.

Most have been 148 HBWCs, but I have a couple thousand rounds of all flavors through mine so far.

I will admit, every time one of these threads come up, I go search for a crack. If I find one, I'll call S&W and see what the say.
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Old 09-16-2022, 06:52 AM
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Because the 642/442/Centennials snubbies are the only ones without the IL, they would be the only one I would buy. Crack one of them and at least S&W gives one back the same kind of gun.

My problem is I just rarely carry a snubbie so have no real need for a light weight .38. A friend pocket carries a 442 if he has pants on so it is perfect for him. For a pocket gun I've gone to a Kahr P380 or PM9 that just fits in my pocket better than a revolver...

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Old 09-16-2022, 11:58 AM
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I'm having issues with a 638. It is on its second trip back to S&W. Not a crack but they said it is unshootable and it is only 5 years old. Wish me luck.
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Old 09-16-2022, 02:27 PM
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I own and carry all three types of J frames, steel (60-3), light weight (642), and air-weight (342). Have had the 60 since 1988 and have thousands of rounds through it. Have had the 342 no-lock since 2001 and have at least 1500 rounds through that one. Only used the 642 about four years with 400-500 rounds through it. Only crack in any was a crack in the yoke barrel of the 342, which the factory fixed and returned very rapidly.
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:10 PM
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In April of 2012 I sent my 1993 vintage 442 with Satin Nickle finish back to the factory for the same reason. There was an ongoing thread about it back then and I found the crack on examination after reading that thread.

About a week after I sent it back I got a call from CS informing me that the gun was unrepairable because it was built on the pre magnum J frame. They offered me the choice of a 442 in black or a 642 as the 442 was no longer offered with the Satin Nickle finish.

I opted for the 642 and since my original gun had no IL requested a non IL replacement. The CS rep told me that there might be a delay as they made the non IL guns in batches. I gave them the FFL info and about two weeks later I was notified by the FFL that the gun was waiting for me.

I believe that the cracked frames on the J frame guns are covered by the lifetime warranty and this is the first time I've ever heard of someone being told it wouldn't be covered.

I'd call back and try again. CS has been inconsistent of late, it's sort of like a roulette wheel.
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:28 PM
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Ok, but what do you think would happen?
They will “provide years of service” - if you don’t fire them. I have seen two guns destroyed that way, and potentially endangering the shooter and bystanders. The barrel will eventually detach from the frame and break away the left side of the frame in the process. One gun I remember in particular was a Model 60 being fired on an indoor range. We walked down range and picked up the barrel. The shooter knew the barrel was “loose” but did not understand the gravity of his observation.

FWIW, I would not fire an S&W with a cracked frame in anything short of an absolute emergency.
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Old 09-16-2022, 03:37 PM
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Keep in mind the "Lifetime" warranty took affect February 1, 1989. Firearms manufactured on or after that date are covered, with some notable exceptions and exclusions.
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  #43  
Old 09-16-2022, 03:57 PM
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My 38 had the same crack. Got fired a bit before noticing and the barrel was noticeably canted pretty quickly. Also had a 642 do it, but S&W replaced that one (2014 or so). Its a bummer but I've pretty much just written off non-steel J frames of that vintage.
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:15 PM
majick47 majick47 is offline
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Did the alloy Colt Cobras and Agents suffer the same frame cracking?
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Old 09-16-2022, 05:54 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is online now
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Now Im just an old fella who has been shootin for a long time.
From my experience and seeing a lot of cracked alloy frames, you just
have to resolve that they are great carry guns but not made for a lot
of constant shooting even with std. ammo. Still carry a 38, 37 and 12
from the early 1970s. Lots of pocket wear and function perfectly.
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Old 09-16-2022, 06:20 PM
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Are these cracks caused by metal imperfections, overpowered cartridges, over torquing barrel, or magic?
Many often refer to over torqueing the barrel, but I don't know anymore about that than they do. Such an explanation may be nothing more than Internet conventional wisdom. If you'll examine the place where they all crack, the alloy is very, very thin - a definite weak spot.

I've had an S&W alloy j-frame crack along with a Colt Agent. What can be said about the very thin place on the S&W also applies to the Colt alloy frame. These older alloy-framed guns really weren't made to shoot much. Two cracked frames convinced me.
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:22 PM
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Did the alloy Colt Cobras and Agents suffer the same frame cracking?
Not like the number of S&W "J" frames that crack.
Usually the Colt's cracked during attempted barrel changes, so Colt and most refinishers stopped doing any refinish work or rebarreling on the aluminum Colt's.

There were some Colt aluminum "D" frame guns that just cracked.
There are all sorts of guesses why an aluminum revolver would crack in the bottom of the barrel threads.
Since that area on a revolver is very thin, obviously some sort of stress was involved, whether it was stressed during barreling at the factory, or shooting stress, your guess is as good as anyone's.
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:36 PM
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rockquarry agree never intended by Smith/Colt to be target/range guns firing thousands of rounds, one step ahead of the ill fated all alloy USAF snub revolvers from the 1950s.
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Old 09-17-2022, 01:12 PM
Chubbs103 Chubbs103 is offline
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I'll probably put 200 through my 442 this weekend. One of many such weekends.
So far, I only made it through 90rds this weekend. Maybe a few more tomorrow.

My 442 spends a lot of time in my front pocket. If I don't shoot it often, I don't seem to be able to hit anything with it.

I'm the original owner. It is under warranty. I check for the crack whenever I clean it. I refuse to carry something I can't stay proficient with.
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Old 09-17-2022, 01:19 PM
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I don't know much about the more recent alloy-framed gun like the 638. Do these also have a reputation for cracking? I've had one for more than ten years and I shoot it regularly, but only with standard pressure handloads using a 158 grain lead SWC.

If these don't crack or don't crack as frequently as the older guns, maybe S&W is doing something different. Anyone know?
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