I recently purchased a 1956 era .38-44 Outdoorsman. The gun shows very little use. However I suspect that the action had been monkeyed with by a previous owner. I detailed stripped it for a good clean and lube. I didn't like the way the trigger felt in the reset mode so I replaced the rebound slide spring with a factory standard weight spring. The mainspring appears to be standard and the strain screw has not been shortened.

The DA pull and action seems fine and smooth, timing is perfect as is lockup, the hammer rebounds properly. But in single action mode it has a hair trigger, at least to me. No push off problems, just super light. It sometimes feels like the hammer is hitting the trigger when it is pulled and the hammer starts to fall, "kicking back" against the trigger and my finger. (This is all dry firing). I worry that one of the notches on the hammer or trigger is going to chip or break off. I removed the little trigger overtravel stop pin from inside the rebound slide and that made no difference.

Do I need a new hammer, trigger or both ? My gunsmithing skills are adequate to replace parts but I lack the skills and tools to try stoning or recutting notches which I understand is tricky business anyway because of the casehardened surfaces.

You have "push-off"! There is a tutorial about it at the top of the main page that is often referred to, but I don't find it.

Push-off is corrected by is corrected by properly and judiciously stoning the trigger. Depending a replacement of the hammer and/or trigger are necessary too.

Before touching it buy a copy of "The Smith & Wesson Revolver, a Shop Manual" that is available from Brownell's, Midway, Amazon, or just about any book seller. The book is about 1/2 the cost of a replacement hammer or trigger, so it can save you a lot of money just doing one repair correctly. If you try to stone the trigger and do it wrong you can ruin a trigger with just a couple of mis-directed strokes of a stone!

Push off is when you push on a cocked hammer and it releases. He most likely just needs to increase his trigger pull with a stronger trigger return spring and or some stoning. I would try a spring first

He indicated he has already replaced the rebound spring with a factory one and the condition persists.
If the SA cocking notch on the hammer is intact and undamaged, the push off condition would likely be repaired by simply re-sharpening the bevel on the trigger. With the proper training and tools, this rehab of the trigger bevel is a very simple procedure.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Sounds to me like the trigger doesn't have enough travel to clear the hammer.

Does this gun have a trigger stop on the frame or a solid pin inside the trigger rebound spring?

Or something else that might be limiting trigger travel?

He said it's not push off. It sounds more like "stubbing" to me, where the DA sear is hitting the trigger as the hammer falls. I think RMFnLA is saying the same thing. Either the trigger needs to go further back, or the DA sear needs adjusted. (If that is what the problem is).

That is exactly what I thought too, about his post. I had that happen on my old 27-2 after around 15k rounds through it back in the mid to late 80's. IIRC, I just replaced the hammer with a new one and that happened to be a drop in fit for me and cured that problem.

I tried the action with the trigger stop pin removed from inside the rebound slide just in case the problem was due to the trigger not moving far enough rearward and that didn't make any difference at all. As I mentioned, I suspected that the rebound spring was a lighter weight Wolff spring as the trigger reset wasn't quite crisp enough for me to feel comfortable so I put a factory spring back in. I think what I will do this weekend is try some parts swapping with another N frame of the same era and see if I can isolate that bad part. I may also take some good macro photos of the engagement surfaces and post them to see if anything stands out to you guys. Thanks for the suggestion on the DA sear, I'll study Kuhnhausen's book and see what he says to look for too.

The DA sear should not be a factor in SA mode, but I will be interested to hear what you come up with.

Take the rebound slide and spring right out of the frame.
Take the hand off of the trigger and leave it out.
Remove the mainspring.
Take the cylinder stop & spring out if you want to take an extra few minutes.

What you have left is a hammer and a trigger.
The hammer still has the DA strut (sear) attached.
The trigger still has the rebound slide follower arm in it but that will be of no consideration.

Place the hammer and the trigger back in the pistol.
Manually operate both using hand and finger pressure to mimic spring tension where it would normally be present.
Slowly cock and then release the hammer. See if the trigger does in fact clear the DA strut on the way down.
If the strut has had it's upper inside surface taken down a little, the bottom edge kicks outward. That puts it out there where it may be in the way of the trigger.

The heavy square cornered area on the hammer just below the SA sear notch just barely clears the trigger on it's rotation downward,, both in SA and DA. But in SA mode the hammer can strike that area a the top then slide down (though there is supposed to be clearance).
In DA, it can be up against it and then slides downward,,,,no 'bump' feeling in DA mode.

All this usually when a replacement trigger is 'dropped in' and no attention given to wether it actually fits correctly or not.

With the two parts in the frame alone. Just pull the trigger to the rear all the way and rotate the hammer back and forth.
The hammer should smoothly rotate. No scraping, bumping, nothing interfering.
If there is, you should be able to see what is in the way.

I agree with 2152hq, but I prefer to do it with all parts and springs installed.

That way the hammer and spring tensions are in play. Just observe the parts with side plate off as you slowly pull the trigger for DA and cock the hammer and pull the trigger in SA with thumb on hammer to slow the hammer fall so you can see what's happening.

I think by this: "If the strut has had it's upper inside surface taken down a little,.." he's referring to the DA hammer sear (hammer fly).

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Remember to use caution if you decide to cycle or manipulate the action components with the sideplate off. This can result in the hammer striking the frame as it goes into battery, or "drops".
This practice also puts added stress on the hammer, trigger and rebound struts, as they are not supported by the sideplate. This is particularly true when working on J-frames, especially the aluminum frame models.

As the previous post noted, keep your thumb on the hammer so that it remains fully down into the frame. You might also consider backing off the mainspring a turn or two to lessen the tension and reduce the strain on the internals and frame.

__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Thank you gentlemen I will try the procedures recommended above this weekend.

That's why I remove the springs and just use finger pressure to mimic their effect on the parts. No stress with the side plate off and easier to see things happening. You can move things in slo-mo and see what's happening.

Once you think you've found the problem and fixed it,,if you add the mainspring and the problems reappears, then you know that the m/s is now the culprit or at least part of the problem again in conjunction with the only other (2?) parts you have installed in the frame.


..Yes what I call the DA strut on the hammer is probably called the DA sear.
Old habits. Colt names stay with me. It's still a Crane too.