Hey guys,

I finally decided tonight to completely strip down my 1958 vintage Model 41. It was running great at the range today until the trigger stopped working ... meaning that I'd pull the trigger and the hammer would only fall sporadically. A quick look inside the gun told me that the receiver had probably never been detail stripped. I've only had the gun for a year, and while I've field stripped it many times, I've never gone beyond that. I also noticed that the magazine disconnect had a good bit of the usual .22 grime around it, which may have also been contributing to the problem.

So, I plunged in with gusto tonight. The slide (firing pin / extractor) assembly was easy to disassemble. And for the most part, I found the receiver easy to strip. That is, until I got to the last two pins: the one holding the trigger guard in place, and the "pawl pin" that holds the pawl and trigger spring in place.

Since my goal is to soak the slide, receiver and all of the parts in Hoppe's, I'd really like to strip it entirely. I can see that there's some grime in the mainspring coils, and the trigger guard doesn't hinge as smoothly as it could.

I tried to hammer out these two pins (gently, so as not to slip and mark the receiver), but they won't budge. I can try harder, but I'm obviously worried about the risk of damaging them. Most of the other pins came out with too much fuss.

So, hammer harder? Soak them in Hoppe's for a few days and then try again? Or is there something I'm missing?

Mike

Always soak stubborn parts before using more force. I know your frustration with wanting to get in there and really scrub good. But sometimes discretion os the better part of valor.

I would recommend Breakfree CLP be slathered on the trigger assembly, soaked as is, then blasted with air on the internals.

Or look for a disassembly guide video on Google or your search engine of choice.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

These are general hints to follow when hammering out pins, as I do not know your level of experience.

Always use the appropriate sized punch and I check that the punch has no defects on its face. If it does, it is more likely to transfer them to the part you are drifting out. Mangled faces, burs or defects can easily be taken out with a stone or grinder - but make sure they remain flat and smooth. When using the punch it must sit flat upon the pin being drifted out - to avoid marks and properly transfer the force of the blows. It is also important to use a bench block. Many times guys will try and punch pins out on a wooden or soft workbench and instead of the pin moving, the workbench top softens the blow and absorbs the energy meant to drift out the pin. For tough or stuck pins I use a steel Bench Block and use a thin piece of material on top to avoid scratching the gun but do not use a thick piece of material or it too will absorb the impact meant for the pin.

Some pins come out much easier in one direction - sometimes they are tapered and sometimes they just move better in one direction - you can try both directions. Soaking them with a solvent or a penetrating oil such as Kroil - might help.

Since I do not know your skill level, what tools you are using and what surface you are working on, this is about the best I can post here. The bottom line is if you do not feel comfortable or confident going further, stop. You can probably get most of the crud and debris out with solvents and compressed air. Better not to damage the gun and try a less invasive method. You can also probably look for any damaged part with a good light and an optimizer if you have one.

I have encountered pins (not only on guns) that broke my shoes big-time! 99% of the time I am successful in their removal and replacement but there have been a couple over the years (not on guns necessarily) that I've had to work around or have changed my mind about removing when not totally necessary to service or repairing the item.

Good luck with whichever way you decide to proceed and let us know how you made out.

Thanks for the tips, guys. I'm using some brand new Grace USA punches on this gun, and they are as closely sized to the pins as I can get (a tiny bit smaller so they don't bind, of course). I have the receiver stabilized on an armorer's block and I'm using a small brass hammer, all of which seems appropriate for this job.

I'm going to take the advice of soaking these parts for a few days before proceeding. The rest of the parts that I've disassembled also need a good soaking, so it won't be time wasted.

Mike

My unprofessional gunsmith advice ....
If something doesn't want to come apart easily ...don't force it !
Broken , bent or peened is usually the result .
Long soaks in the cleaner of your choice beats a larger hammer seven ways to Sunday .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I've also had the same problem. I let a gunsmith look at it and he did a detailed cleaning and it works fine. He used acetone on a Q-Tip and a dental pick. I plan on doing the same thing from now on. I've also been placing the 41 in a sonic cleaner with Simple Green and seen a lot of grim in the solution. I rinse the gun in hot tap water then place it in a dehydrator. I've never had any rust using this method.

I've taken my 41 partway down. The slide is easy and worthwhile to disassemble and clean. The action, though, gives me pause. I stop short of taking apart the trigger, hammer, sear etc. Fortunately they're exposed enough I don't think it's needed. I use a can of aerosol RemOil and hose things down. Then small brushes, Q-tips and plastic picks dislodge some of the tenacious gunk. More hosing down with RemOil and I'm good. No worries about degreasing as with acetone or some other solvents. RemOil leaves a light lube on the surfaces too.

YMMV, but for me RemOil does exactly what I need.

This:

Model 41 maintenance

That Model 41 maintenance covers everything nicely, except the receiver.
Just don't seem to be any instructions for that anywhere.

Stu

There use to be excellent detail full take down and reassembly instructions that I've posted links to here years ago - but the links are now dead, with the exception of the maintenance page of course.

To be honest the M41's frame is best left partially together unless a specific part must be replaced. It is one of the more complicated S&W's to fully strip down and not for the faint of heart. Almost any routine cleaning and lubrication is able to be done without disassembly. As others have mentioned above, the upper half is a piece of cake and is no big deal to disassemble and reassemble.

I have a bag full of new springs from S&W that I would love to install in my 51 year old Field model but I won't attempt it without some instructions. It has always been a habit to re-spring used guns I buy.

Stu

For those not wishing to remove all of the internals from the frame, perhaps an ultrasonic cleaning would work. There are solutions that are specifically designed for firearms.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

If all you want to do is clean it, then a can of Gun Scrubber or Brake Kleen will hose it out. If it aint broke don't take it apart.??


PS,
I looked at Rim Fire Central and there is nothing there. If they don't have it I bet it is not a common thing to do??

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Still Running Against the Wind

I chased down all of the leads that were given on Rim Fire Central and they were all dead ends, everything but the receiver.

Stu

I'm a bit concerned that if we come up with a disassembly tutorial with photos that people will get themselves in a bind trying to take the frame apart.

To me, this sounds like a perfect use for a small ultrasonic machine, and some Lyman Cleaning solution. Remove everything you can from the frame, thorough ultrasonic cleaning, rinse, blow dry, re-lubricate and re-assemble.

Those considering parts replacement on older models might consider Clark Custom Guns.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I'd first try a good blast with brake cleaner or a similar solvent (I use Brake Kleen). Then a light lube if the frame with Rem Oil or similar thin lubricant.
You may find that a detail strip of the frame, even if an interesting project, is not necessary.
Also, the maintenance Page that I mentioned shows in detail how to adjust the trigger mechanism. The problem could also be as simple as the trigger limiting screw having rotated a little further in or having acquired a glop of crud on its tip.

Thanks for the interesting discussion, everyone. Instead of creating a bunch of short responses, I'll try to sum up my thoughts here.

First: I'm not a fan of not providing people with good information because there's a risk of people misusing it. In truth, none of this stuff is mythologically difficult, and much of the difficulty is simply in getting the pins out with causing any damage. Some concave punches, a good armorer's block (or a piece of wood with a few holes drilled in it), a brass hammer and some masking tape make that an entirely safe and approachable job.

I'm also no fan of "bubba" gunsmithing, but I also recognize that a careful amateur with good tools, patience and some good instructions can do just as good work as a professional gunsmith.

My frame and slide are currently soaking in Hoppe's, which has always worked well for helping me break stubborn parts. After a few days I'll get the frame out, dry it, and gently work the two stubborn pins with my watchmaker's staking tool set -- one of the most invaluable inventions for this sort of thing, and something that far too few gunsmiths are aware of.

In terms of not needing to take apart the receiver: it was simply too dirty for me to be comfortable with just spraying it with cleaner or even using an ultrasonic (both of which I have). What this gun needed was to be taken apart and for each part to be carefully cleaned by hand. Yes, I know there's a marginally increased risk to the gun, but I'm willing to take that risk to do the job properly. It has also given me a chance to examine all of the springs, several of which showed enough wear that I'll order replacements. It'll make the job go a little longer than I'd like for it to, but it should mean many more years of happy shooting.

And, now that I've got this thing down to its skivvies, I can say that it's actually not that complex. Yes, the trigger bar and its spring are rather unique, as is the pawl and cam for locking the barrel in place. But it's just a few parts, and anyone with reasonable mechanical aptitude can immediately ascertain how the whole thing works.

Mike

Then you have been elected to take pictures and do the first tutorial on Detail Stripping the M41
I have taken part several complex handguns but could not have done so with pictures or a video


Have fun!



Years ago I did a Walther P22 and did all the mods described the P22 "Bible"



https://www.gunfactory.ch/download/W..._P22_bible.pdf

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Still Running Against the Wind

I think folks can judge their own mechanical ability, especially when they know if they blow it they are going to have to stand in front of some gunsmith with a shoe box full of parts pleading for him to put it back together, after he didn't take it apart.

I probably have above average mechanical skills (I hope) having been a Mercedes mechanic for 30 years and was a division armorer in the Army fixing everything from 1911's up to Browning 50's. BUT, I still find that receiver daunting without some instructions. I guess I don't function on the intuitive level but rather need some concrete instructions. If I blow it, I blow it but I sure want to try.

Stu

There are some images in this thread which might be helpful;. The schematic can be enlarged and there us also a photo of the gun broken down.


Illustrated parts break down for a M 41

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Still Running Against the Wind

When driving pins in or out, I always lube them first and use a piece of thin sheet copper taped over the pin with a hole for the pin punch; if the punch bounces off the pin and or goes sideways, the shield prevents those errant dings in the finish around the pin we've all seen on too many guns. Even after gunsmiths have worked on them.

When I happen upon a stubborn pin, and I'm unfamiliar with the gun, I start looking for a cross pin or other retention part holding it in place. But sometimes they're just tight.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I copied this picture from the other thread I posted about above.(some day it may disappear))

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Still Running Against the Wind

A very useful photo indeed. I printed a couple of copies on photo paper and they turned out great.

Several pins used have a rounded edge and Brownells sells cupped tip punches for these types of pins. I think it would be less risky to use these punches and you should not flatten out the head of the pins.

See link for punches:

Cup Tip Punch Set A : BROWNELLS CUP TIP PUNCHES | Brownells

I always thought Kroil would be better to use for pin removal than CLP. Kroil is noted as the oil that creeps and is more of a penetrating oil.