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Old 05-07-2020, 09:21 PM
Nukewaste Nukewaste is offline
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Hello,

So, I was thinking about bobbing the hammer on my m36-10, less than 6 months old. I was thinking of buying one I saw on eBay for a m36-9. Does anyone know if there are any design changes to the hammer between the versions that would prevent a simple swapout? Should a 36-9 hammer fit and allow a 36-10 to function properly? Thanks for your wisdom
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Old 05-07-2020, 09:33 PM
Nukewaste Nukewaste is offline
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Let me clarify real quick: I was thinking about HALF bobbing it, not completely remove the spur. I just look at it as some small "customization', kinda like showing its mine, that's all.
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Old 05-07-2020, 11:43 PM
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Lowering the mass of the hammer CAN give ignition problems. I am unsure I see any purpose in what you describe but, it's your weapon, you want it to look different, go with what makes you happy. Sorry I don't have any info on interchangability, but I am sure someone with more knowledge that me will jump in.
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Old 05-08-2020, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Nukewaste View Post
Hello,

So, I was thinking about bobbing the hammer on my m36-10, less than 6 months old. I was thinking of buying one I saw on eBay for a m36-9. Does anyone know if there are any design changes to the hammer between the versions that would prevent a simple swapout? Should a 36-9 hammer fit and allow a 36-10 to function properly? Thanks for your wisdom
First, I applaud your strategy of altering a non-original part, while keeping the original part in storage so the gun can be returned to stock if you change your mind. That's wise.

As to whether it will fit or work. Only you can answer that. Pays your moneys and takes your chances. Give it a shot? What do you have to lose, other than the purchase price of the part?
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:25 AM
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Iíve ground down hammers on a few Snubs. It never caused firing problems. Here is my 37 partly ground and still can be cocked if I feel the need.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:37 AM
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Just keep in mind that parts swaps in revolvers, even with the proper part, may require some fitting. I think CNC machining has reduced the need for that somewhat, but it still may be needed.

As far as bobbing a hammer possibly causing ignition issues, I think it's highly unlikely unless you're running light mainsprings. I doubt a partial bob like you're intending to do would cause any issues by itself. I had a 3" 65 and a 2" 64 with fully-bobbed hammers (and factory stock mainsprings), and I never had any ignition issues with them.
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Old 05-08-2020, 11:53 AM
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I understand what you mean with a lighter spring. I installed Wolff springs, reducing power to, what it said, "8.5 lbs stock to 8lbs" with spring installed. Do any of you think that my cause light strikes?
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Old 05-08-2020, 12:21 PM
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If that spring is reliable in your gun now, I seriously doubt a partial hammer bob, by itself, will cause issues.
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Old 05-08-2020, 04:40 PM
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Bobbing the hammer does give you less mass, But, having less mass the hammer is accelerated to a higher speed by the main spring. As Energy+ Mass x Velocity Squared the increased velocity caused by lightening the hammer makes ups for its loss of mass. Plus quicker lock time.

I have bobbed my share of hammers and have never had a miss fire because of it. My carry guns are a 325 with a bobbed hammer, and 396 with a bobbed hammer, I use to compete with a model 28 with a bobbed hammer.
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Old 05-09-2020, 04:36 PM
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Hello,

So, I was thinking about bobbing the hammer on my m36-10, less than 6 months old. I was thinking of buying one I saw on eBay for a m36-9. Does anyone know if there are any design changes to the hammer between the versions that would prevent a simple swapout? Should a 36-9 hammer fit and allow a 36-10 to function properly? Thanks for your wisdom
The design change from 36-9 to 36-10 was the change to the J Magnum slightly longer frame window. The hammers are both MIM which began on the 36-9. So no, shouldn't be any problem.
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Old 05-09-2020, 08:10 PM
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This is a factory bobbed hammer

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Old 05-11-2020, 09:03 AM
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Hondo44
Thanks for the input. Great info. Is there a central source of info on various changes to model changes?

Saemetric
Beautiful gun, very functional looking.

Already ordered the 36-9 hammer. When it comes in and it's installed, I'll post pics and some thoughts

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Old 05-11-2020, 09:14 AM
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Hondo44
Thanks for the input. Great info. Is there a central source of info on various changes to model changes?
You're very welcome.

The best first book to get for all model S&Ws and that lists all the Model changes by dash # is the Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson (SCSW). The 4th edition is the newest.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:10 PM
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Excellent. Thank you for the source
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:18 PM
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I understand what you mean with a lighter spring. I installed Wolff springs, reducing power to, what it said, "8.5 lbs stock to 8lbs" with spring installed. Do any of you think that my cause light strikes?

Why change springs instead of de-burring the action to reduce friction? (the real culprit). Factory springs aren't made too strong, they're made to work properly. In the countless action jobs I've done I can only recall 1 that needed a lighter spring (replaced w/ a different factory spring).
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:14 AM
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Smooth beats light. Make sure there are no burrs or drags. But, the absolute best thing is to became a better at squeezing the trigger.
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Old 05-12-2020, 10:58 AM
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Great insight.

I am curious: should there be a slight "pause" when staging the trigger before firing? I do kinda feel comfortable with that since it is only an EDC gun, not a competition gun with a light DA.

Or is it one continuous stroke without the pause?

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Old 05-12-2020, 11:00 AM
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Why change springs instead of de-burring the action to reduce friction? (the real culprit). Factory springs aren't made too strong, they're made to work properly. In the countless action jobs I've done I can only recall 1 that needed a lighter spring (replaced w/ a different factory spring).
True. I've heard that changing springs is better and easier to change on a EDC weapon, and is recommended.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:24 AM
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Great insight.

I am curious: should there be a slight "pause" when staging the trigger before firing? I do kinda feel comfortable with that since it is only an EDC gun, not a competition gun with a light DA.

Or is it one continuous stroke without the pause?
Opinions differ, but I prefer a straight-through pull. If you have to fire in self defense, you're not going to have the time to stage the trigger. Just pull straight through. I would argue the same applies when trying to make a more precise and/or distant shot.

For practicing, focus on smooth, consistent speed. The goal is to pull the trigger through as fast as you can while keeping the pull smooth and consistent. The slower you pull the trigger, the harder it is to keep the sights aligned. Get some snap caps and do dry fire practice for a few minutes every day. That will help improve your skill.

Also, don't neglect trigger release. If you want to get faster, learn to release the trigger as soon as the gun fires. Let the trigger return fully forward, but keep your finger in contact with the trigger; this helps minimize the chance of short-stroking the trigger. Again, dry fire practice with snap caps is your best option with getting the hang of it.

Eventually, you'll be able to cycle the trigger quickly with minimal sight disturbance (nobody can hold a gun completely still).

Of course, live fire practice is also important to incorporate recoil control.

That's my approach. Others have different opinions. One isn't necessarily better than the other, but I think the approach I use is most applicable to self defense scenarios.

Even better, get some hands-on instruction from someone who knows how to run a defensive revolver (Grant Cunningham comes to mind). Short of that, I'd recommend his books on defensive revolvers and snubs as a good guide.

Hope that helps.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:36 AM
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True. I've heard that changing springs is better and easier to change on a EDC weapon, and is recommended.
My opinion is that if you want to improve the trigger pull on a defensive revolver, the best approach is to have a gunsmith do a trigger job while retaining the factory springs. The most important thing with regard to a defensive gun's function is reliability. A gunsmith can polish key points on the internals and make the trigger pull smoother and lighter, but factory springs will help maintain reliability as well as keep the trigger pull within factory specs. I've read about gunsmiths who will actually add an extra power mainspring to ensure reliability after doing a trigger job.

If you do decide to change springs, it's important to test reliability with your self defense ammo.

Another thing to keep in mind is that using a lighter rebound spring can negatively affect trigger return and increase the probability of short-stroking the trigger. I like a strong trigger reset, and I wouldn't go lighter on the rebound spring. I passed on getting a LCR because I didn't like the weak trigger return. At one point, I even tried looking for an extra-power rebound spring.

One final point: Regular dry fire practice may make a slight improvement in the trigger pull, a bigger benefit is that it helps make your trigger finger and grip stronger, both of which will make DA trigger pulls easier. You can also use hand strengthening equipment to increase your grip strength. I like Captains of Crush grippers, but there are lots of options out there.
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Old 05-12-2020, 11:37 AM
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ContinentalOp
Absolutely helps. Thanks for the insight.


Understood. I appreciate the information.

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Old 05-12-2020, 11:48 AM
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Lots of good advice from ContinentalOp.

My opinion-

If you stage the trigger, it's harder to get it going again once you stop the movement (called static inertia). That actually makes it harder to make an accurate shot, and more likely to pull the shot sideways.

If you're going to run the trigger fast, you have to learn to move your trigger finger both directions, not just ride the trigger forward, especially if you have a lighter action (target or competition).

I would not change the springs or lighten the action on a carry or duty gun. If you ever need it, you won't have any problem pulling whatever trigger it has. There will be plenty of adrenaline to make it easy.

These are conclusions I have come to over many years of revo shooting. Everyone should keep an open mind, try different things, and decide what works best for them.
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Old 05-12-2020, 12:48 PM
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Great advice and insight from all, many thanks

ContinentalOps:
After re-reading what you said about the rebound spring, I was thinking the same thing. I only changed the main-spring. Went from "factory 8.5# to new 8#", so I think only 1/2# difference.
I avoided the rebound spring because of the opinion you were thinking...

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Old 05-12-2020, 02:31 PM
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I would never castrate one of my revolvers.......It accomplishes nothing.
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Old 05-12-2020, 03:39 PM
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You're over reacting...it's just a haircut, a little off the top.
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Old 05-12-2020, 04:55 PM
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Hilarious
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:06 PM
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You're over reacting...it's just a haircut, a little off the top.
So why do it? It DOES NOT look cool.
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Old 05-16-2020, 09:34 PM
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Because you can get a lighter D/A trigger pull by doing it. I only shoot D/A in matches. When you have a really good D/A, you don't need S/A. It's about performance, not looks. Who cares what it looks like anyway? It's for working guns, not safe queens.
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Old 05-17-2020, 01:06 AM
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Like said above, they are not the same. The 36-9 hammer is the #826060B and the 36-10 uses the #826060A.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:55 PM
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Like said above, they are not the same. The 36-9 hammer is the #826060B and the 36-10 uses the #826060A.
Thank you much. Other than the "A" or "B", do you happen to know the difference? I understand how important it is to "use the right part number or tool" as such.
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Old 05-20-2020, 07:58 PM
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Because you can get a lighter D/A trigger pull by doing it. I only shoot D/A in matches. When you have a really good D/A, you don't need S/A. It's about performance, not looks. Who cares what it looks like anyway? It's for working guns, not safe queens.
Good point. In your experience/opinion, how much lighter do you think for a j-frame? Of course it'll be my carry piece.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:28 PM
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In order to get the lighter trigger pull, you have to put in a lighter mainspring for a J frame, or back off the tension on K,L or N frame. The lighter weight of the hammer allows a lighter spring pressure to get it up to speed in time. Also, a lighter tension of mainspring allows for a lighter rebound spring that still gives a snappy trigger return. You can shave off a pound or 2 of trigger pull just with the rebound spring.

I think the best you're going to do to lighten a J frame is to get a duty type spring kit from Apex or Wolff. If the spring kit works with the hammer spur on, it will be only slightly better with it bobbed. There isn't much weight in a J frame spur. To me, the best reason to bob the hammer on a carry gun is so it doesn't hang up on your clothes on the draw when you desperately need it RIGHT NOW.

The spring kits are a noticeable improvement in trigger pull over factory, but make darn sure it works every time with your SD loads before using it for EDC. Federal makes the lightest primers, so it might be good to use Federal SD factory ammo.

The only caveat is this only works on centerfire guns. The rimfire ones need a heavy hammer and spring to crush the folded over rim. Apex Tactical has a new rimfire hammer for 617s, (K frame), but nothing for .22 J frames.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:14 PM
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Here is my Colt's Agent with a professional hammer bob job by a local
Smith. He also removed the notch from the hammer where it locks on
to the sear, thus rendering it totally DAO. I agree with Protocall, when
you need your gun you need it quick. You don't need a hammer snagging
on the draw. I also prefer open top holsters for a little quicker draw.
You don't need to waste a split second deciding DA or SA. Save a split
second here and there and it all adds up.
The Agent is in the photo at left.
2nd from left is a favorite KD's gator trimmed pancake.
3rd from left another favorite Baker pancake.
You may have noticed that the Baker pancake is made for a
3" barrel, but my Agent is a 2" barrel. Red Nichols put a positive
spin on that for me. With so much weight in the cylinder above
the belt, the gun would have a tendency to tip out. That extra
inch helps reduce that tipping.
BTW those gorgeous grips are extended boots by Craig Spegel.
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protocall_Design View Post
In order to get the lighter trigger pull, you have to put in a lighter mainspring for a J frame, or back off the tension on K,L or N frame. The lighter weight of the hammer allows a lighter spring pressure to get it up to speed in time. Also, a lighter tension of mainspring allows for a lighter rebound spring that still gives a snappy trigger return. You can shave off a pound or 2 of trigger pull just with the rebound spring.

I think the best you're going to do to lighten a J frame is to get a duty type spring kit from Apex or Wolff. If the spring kit works with the hammer spur on, it will be only slightly better with it bobbed. There isn't much weight in a J frame spur. To me, the best reason to bob the hammer on a carry gun is so it doesn't hang up on your clothes on the draw when you desperately need it RIGHT NOW.

The spring kits are a noticeable improvement in trigger pull over factory, but make darn sure it works every time with your SD loads before using it for EDC. Federal makes the lightest primers, so it might be good to use Federal SD factory ammo.

The only caveat is this only works on centerfire guns. The rimfire ones need a heavy hammer and spring to crush the folded over rim. Apex Tactical has a new rimfire hammer for 617s, (K frame), but nothing for .22 J frames.
Great advice, good wisdom.
Thank you to all
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:25 PM
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Soooo...

I purchased the part, then after some careful planning and fit-up to see if it was feasible, I decided against it. And I didn't want to risk screwing it up just to bob the installed hammer.

Just FYI, the 36-9 hammer didn't seem to fit the 36-10 gun, and I didn't feel qualified enough to figure out why, so I just said forget it, and love what I got. Pics included. Check it out.

Also, after consulting with a seasoned 'smith, he said it'd be fine just like it is.

Moral of the story: I don't know Jack...
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Old 05-22-2020, 07:38 PM
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The new one doesn't have the groove for the lock. That's why it won't fit. At least one reason, anyway.
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:26 PM
Nukewaste Nukewaste is offline
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Yeah, when I dropped the new one in place and then tested it, it wouldn't even move past a quarter inch or so. I would have to grind it and fit it up a little more to be functional, so I decided against it.

Last edited by Nukewaste; 05-22-2020 at 09:27 PM.
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