|
|
05-30-2020, 08:17 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Sear reset issue
I have a three year old model 67 which has about 500 rounds through it. I recently did a light trigger job on it. I say light because I didn't work on every possible surface, and the ones I did work on I went pretty conservatively. My primary goal was to improve double action smoothness. Upon reassembly I found that about every 5 or 10 double action firings, the sear would not properly reset past the trigger. The first photo shows [ATTACH] Trigger3.jpg[/ATTACH] proper reset and the the second photo shows that sear tip has not cleared the surface of the trigger. Trigger3.jpgI did do some stoning on this surface of the trigger but I did not touch the tip of the sear. I did lightly stone the broad surface of the sear.
The other interesting thing happening is that the the sear is rising up from the side of the gun. When I push down on it like I show in the third photo, it resets. Trigger4.jpg
Initially I had a Wolf hammer spring and 15# rebound slide spring installed. I put the stock springs back in and still have the issue. Thoughts on what is happening?
|
06-02-2020, 09:48 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California
Posts: 19,251
Likes: 11,929
Liked 20,598 Times in 8,583 Posts
|
|
Have you tried it with the side plate re-installed? That'll keep the sear from rising up and keep it in the position where it works properly,
It's not unusual for the function to be different with side plate removed. In fact the action should not be operated too much with side plate removed. Because the hammer and trigger studs are not supported in their sockets on the side plate. They can flex and parts operate differently when not supported at both ends.
__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 10:34 AM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,484
Liked 13,612 Times in 4,290 Posts
|
|
It sounds like the sear spring may not be seated correctly, or maybe it got bent, causing the sear to go sideways. That spring is delicate and finicky. You probably need to examine it under magnification. There is a depression in the hammer for the end of the spring to seat in.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 12:53 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondo44
Have you tried it with the side plate re-installed? That'll keep the sear from rising up and keep it in the position where it works properly,
It's not unusual for the function to be different with side plate removed. In fact the action should not be operated too much with side plate removed. Because the hammer and trigger studs are not supported in their sockets on the side plate. They can flex and parts operate differently when not supported at both ends.
|
Thanks for your reply. It does happen with the side plate installed.
|
06-02-2020, 12:57 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protocall_Design
It sounds like the sear spring may not be seated correctly, or maybe it got bent, causing the sear to go sideways. That spring is delicate and finicky. You probably need to examine it under magnification. There is a depression in the hammer for the end of the spring to seat in.
|
This was running through my mind. I did not remove the sear from the hammer although I did do some light stoning on the broad face of the sear by fulling compressing it into the hammer. Could I have damaged the sear spring by doing that? I'll look under magnification and report back.
Does the hammer block play a role in keeping the sear in place? I did some stoning on all sides of it but I can't imagine I changed its thickness too much.
|
06-02-2020, 01:11 PM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,484
Liked 13,612 Times in 4,290 Posts
|
|
The hammer block doesn't come in contact with the D/A sear. It's pretty hard to mess up a hammer block unless you change it a lot.
You may or may not need to take the sear and spring off to see what's going on there. If the spring is messed up, new ones are cheap. Get a couple of extra.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 06:53 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
I opened it up today and took a closer look at the sear spring. It didn't look quite right.
Trigger5.jpg
I pulled the spring out and there is some obvious deformation. Question is, did the deformed spring start causing sear problems, or did the sear problems cause the spring to deform?
Trigger6.jpg
I removed the sear and spring and then reassembled them. I am pretty sure the spring ends are where they need to be but it still looks a little wonky. Still suffers from the same DA problem. After reassembly:
Trigger7.jpg
I'll order some new springs and see if that helps. Can anyone recommend a good source for these springs?
|
06-02-2020, 07:02 PM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,484
Liked 13,612 Times in 4,290 Posts
|
|
S&W factory, Brownell's gunsmith supply, Midway USA, Gun Parts Corp., Jack First.
The deformed spring caused the sear problem. Once the spring is properly installed, the sear moving front to back will not damage the spring. If the sear is moved sideways with the bottom of the spring captured in the hammer recess, it will damage the spring.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-02-2020, 10:20 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by armorer951
|
Thanks for the link. Ordered.
|
06-02-2020, 10:21 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Protocall_Design
S&W factory, Brownell's gunsmith supply, Midway USA, Gun Parts Corp., Jack First.
The deformed spring caused the sear problem. Once the spring is properly installed, the sear moving front to back will not damage the spring. If the sear is moved sideways with the bottom of the spring captured in the hammer recess, it will damage the spring.
|
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk me through this.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
06-03-2020, 09:54 AM
|
Vendor
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 6,190
Likes: 54,484
Liked 13,612 Times in 4,290 Posts
|
|
Glad I was able to help. I think you will really enjoy shooting your M67 once this is all ironed out.
|
08-01-2020, 04:13 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 7 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Update- I replaced the deformed sear spring an now all is well.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-02-2020, 05:20 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Have had the same issue on S&W L and N frame guns. New MIM sears and springs are very hard to insert into MIM hammers without deforming the springs. I made an insert tool from a straight punch with a tip that is now a half moon after a flat was ground on one side. Then shaft of punch was bent up at about a 20 deg angle so that it clears over the side of the hammer. I start the sear in its pocket with spring inserted in hole in the sear. Then I compress the spring with the punch and half moon tip until end of spring is flush with the gap at edge of the hammer. Keeping the sear square, I push gently down on the sear and spring goes down the gap and jumps into its slot. It pops into place about 50% of the time, sometimes I have to coax it in with a small bladed screwdriver. S&W could change the design here to something that is much more workable. I've destroyed my share of springs trying to do this.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
10-02-2020, 07:23 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Evansville, Indiana USA
Posts: 6,225
Likes: 484
Liked 11,391 Times in 3,522 Posts
|
|
I just use a bobby pin to assist. Mount the sear spring on the pin, carefully place the spring end in the cavity of the sear, compress the spring while inserting the sear, spring and bobby pin into the cavity in the hammer....when fully seated, remove bobby pin while holding the sear in place.
__________________
Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer
Last edited by armorer951; 10-02-2020 at 07:26 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
10-02-2020, 10:07 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 10
Likes: 1
Liked 5 Times in 2 Posts
|
|
Very good idea.
|
10-03-2020, 11:19 PM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: S W GA
Posts: 879
Likes: 4,093
Liked 1,719 Times in 461 Posts
|
|
I have picked up nice hammers minus some parts at times. Its easy to misinstall the delicate sear spring out of place. I keep extra sear springs for just this reason. When the DA
sear is misbehaving as others have pointed to
the sear spring is most often the culprit. Remove the hammer and verify the instant
spring back on the DA sear itself. With the hammer out its easier to tell the proble area.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|