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07-07-2020, 09:45 PM
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Finally a 3” Full Lug in .327 “It’s Finished” pictures posted
Made a 15-3 into a 3” full lug .327, hesitated a year. Picked up the gun from Andy Horvath this morning. He cut the barrel to 3”, installed a Weigand interchangeable front sight base and fit the cylinder. I will round butt the gun and maybe bob the hammer then get it refinished. It’s in the first stages but well on it’s way. Think the grips on it will be used because of the nice grain and will need to be fit.
Even fit the Sticky pocket holster from the Kimber K6, Larry
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07-07-2020, 10:03 PM
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Looks like a fun project.
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07-07-2020, 10:14 PM
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This looks like a great project! Where did you get the barrel from?
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07-07-2020, 10:30 PM
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Neat project! Tell us more...
Is the barrel from a Model 16? How 'bout the cylinder?
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07-08-2020, 03:48 AM
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Great project!
Tell us about the source for your barrel and cyl please.
Is the cyl a .22 cyl reamed to .327?
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S&WCA #819
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07-08-2020, 09:05 AM
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Nice project! Please share some of the details when you get a chance.
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07-08-2020, 09:26 AM
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Been thinking about something like this for a while and couple yrs ago there was a 4” 16-4 barrel for sale here in the classified. Bam, I was lucky. Was gonna have a retired machinist cut the bbl for me and crown it the best I could. Crowned a .22 barrel with files and it came out OK. The sight couldn’t be reused. Not sure how Andy knows what height to mount a Weigand interchangeable front sight base so he would need to cut the barrel for me. I like the Horvath Custom & .327 Magnum.
The cylinder was for .22 LR and Andy reamed it to .327 abt 9 months ago. Thought I would save money and fit the cyl myself. It wouldn’t fit, not sure why. Played with it for while then decided to let Andy have it so I didn’t ruin something. The ratchet was different and needed filing to make the timing correct.
So out to Andy’s February 25th with the model 15 and roughly 4 months later I got it back. The cost was 325.00, the base was included in the price. The base is 50.00-55.00 delivered to me. Happy so far, will carry it today to see how different it is from the Kimber K6. This may be a cold weather gun under a jacket. Larry
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07-08-2020, 09:46 AM
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Nice...
Is Weigand again making the sight bases? Last I had looked they had stopped...
Bob
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07-08-2020, 09:54 AM
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A perfect candidate for black nitriding. Here’s a M15 I had done. It’s still a .38, however.
H&M nitriding does a great job!
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07-08-2020, 12:37 PM
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Bowen makes the bases now. Is the nitriding a paint process? Larry
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07-11-2020, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745
Bowen makes the bases now. Is the nitriding a paint process? Larry
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No, it’s definitely not paint.
H&M Blacknitride+™ | The New Standard in Steel Hardening
Nitriding - Wikipedia
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07-11-2020, 12:42 PM
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Very nice. Now if only S&W would follow your lead.
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07-11-2020, 04:35 PM
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Nice piece, I'm jealous. that is about perfect........
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dd884
JMHO-YMMV
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07-12-2020, 09:57 PM
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Thanks for all the comments, had the barrel at least 2 years and wasn’t sure l wanted to put the money out for another .32. Also wasn’t sure if I would use a model 15 or 10. The 3” guns look neat with adjustable sights, especially a gold bead Patridge front sight. With the Weigand base the ramp front sight can be inserted to carry.
CH4, how long ago did you get your gun nitrided? The finish should be durable for carrying daily? Wonder how it compares to metealife hard chrome. Anyone else use Nitriding on their guns?
Andy Horvath is 30 min west and H&M is 30 minutes south.
The only project left in my mind is cutting a 6” model 14-5, -6 or -7 full lug to 5”. Andy could make it happen. Have a 4” 14-6 Roper in the basement and 3 of the 14-6 & -7’s. Would have a set of 4”, 5” & 6” full lug 14’s. Larry
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07-13-2020, 10:21 AM
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Jebus35745, did you ever have that PPC style bull barrel installed on a gun? I remember several years ago that you had that on your project list? Does your little carry gun shoot as accurately as this and your other, longer barreled, 32s?
Froggie
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07-13-2020, 12:12 PM
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Plan to ransom rest the gun tomorrow morning, the tables the rest will be mounted on are movable and not the best for ransom rest use. Better then nothing, my benched sand bag shooting sucks from inconsistent sight pictures. Taking 2 different .327 reloads, 2 .32mag & 2 .32 long reloads to shoot. Will report tomorrow.
The .32 long PPC gun was built on a model 15 frame also and shoots nice. Larry
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07-13-2020, 12:40 PM
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Jebus35745,
Your post inspired me to give Andy Horvath a call to discuss having my K22 cylinder reamed out to 32 magnum. I need it to complete the conversion of a M15 to .32 magnum. Like you, I purchased a 4'' barrel from a member here.
Andy called me right back and I'm happy to say that the cylinder is on its way to his shop.
...Mercury
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07-14-2020, 01:36 PM
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Mercury, what did he charge you?
Here are the ransom rest results. Remember the table used is movable and I pushed it against the wall to help make it stable. The ransom rest is bolted to some wood and clamped to the table. The groups are at least 12 shots at 50 feet. Didn’t like the.32 long Hdy SWC or the .32 Mag LRN. The snappier the load the better accuracy got. The .32 mag JRN did OK but had vertical stringing. The .327 JHP had 2 separate groups but nice and the Hornady XTP’s had an excellent group. The quarter is about an inch in dia. Happy so far, Larry
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07-25-2020, 10:15 AM
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Nice Larry! Looks like a keeper!!
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07-25-2020, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745
Mercury, what did he charge you?
Here are the ransom rest results. Remember the table used is movable and I pushed it against the wall to help make it stable. The ransom rest is bolted to some wood and clamped to the table. The groups are at least 12 shots at 50 feet. Didn’t like the.32 long Hdy SWC or the .32 Mag LRN. The snappier the load the better accuracy got. The .32 mag JRN did OK but had vertical stringing. The .327 JHP had 2 separate groups but nice and the Hornady XTP’s had an excellent group. The quarter is about an inch in dia. Happy so far, Larry
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It appears it turns out to be perfectly dialed in for the .32 H&R Mag jacketed load; presuming you used the same point of hold for each target.
When you refinish your project, you may consider welding up the corners on the front of the top strap to match up to the barrel rib. Maybe even the frame and yoke below the shroud. Althoug starting with a M19 frame wouldn't have that issue.
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S&WCA #819
Last edited by Hondo44; 07-25-2020 at 06:23 PM.
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07-25-2020, 07:08 PM
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Neat project, looks like a lot of fun to shoot. Regarding the Nitriding I thought the claim by the company linked in the one post was a bit much where they claimed a gain in velocity of several hundred feet per sec.
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07-27-2020, 01:07 PM
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Jim, welding the areas you mentioned would would make the metal flow smoother. This project was on the back burner, not sure I wanted to spend the money on another project. Found a model 15 at a gun show reasonably priced. Walked around after I saw it thinking about the whole process and went back to buy it. The 19’s are priced higher, wanted to keep the costs down. Would have to remove the barrel to do what you said, don’t have the tools to remove it. I remember someone talked about making the shroud smaller also.
Yea, not sure about the velocity increasing if it was nitraded. Still not sure what finish it will get. Was quoted 225.00 minimum for black nitrate and would be done in a week. Need to search more on how it wears over time. S&W uses them on a lot of semi auto parts for their new guns. Can’t be too bad, Larry
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09-02-2020, 12:00 PM
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Jebus35745,
I didn't forget about you asking what Andy charged me for reaming my .22 cylinder to .32 magnum and shortening it so that it fit my M15; I just had to wait for him to give me a final price after he completed it. He initially said that it could be around $130 but he'd have to look at it and see what was involved to be sure.
He called me last week (He's a gentleman, BTW) and said that it was done and that it would be $180 with shipping. So, I sent him a check and am awaiting the cylinder.
I'll have to check the B/C gap and possibly file some of the ratchets but I'll see how it fits and times up first.
I had sent him a .32 SWL cylinder that was on the gun that fit perfectly but the chambers were blown and were splitting brass. He used it as template so as to know how much to remove from the rear of the .22 cylinder.
Take good care,
Mercury
ETA: Grammar
Last edited by Mercury; 09-02-2020 at 12:23 PM.
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09-30-2020, 09:08 PM
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Wow, been 3 months and the gun has sitting in the safe with nothing done to it. Tonight I took all the parts out and started to round butt it. Hondo, you will be proud that I bought a frame wrench. Gonna find someone to weld the top front of the frame like you mentioned.May try to make the backstrap smooth rather then filing each groove to make it look original. Filing the grooves is tedious, did it once.
We got a new puppy early July and they need to be watched every minute. Getting better so I can spend time downstairs, Larry
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09-30-2020, 10:16 PM
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Hi Larry,
Yeah, funny thing about projects...I find that no matter how many times I try, just leaving them alone never seems to motivate them to just fix themselves.
I remember your post where you cut those backstrap grooves. If you want to get a firm grip on the gun, how about stippling?
It's fairly easy, and you can go right over the grooved and smooth areas, blending the two together.
You can make your own stippling punches to cut square, triangular, or round impressions, or different sizes depending on the desired coarseness.
For a really snazzy look, you could file just the two outside grooves and then stipple the area between.
Jim
Last edited by 6string; 09-30-2020 at 10:20 PM.
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10-01-2020, 09:58 PM
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I thought about stippling, how would I support the metal while doing it? Found a guy to weld the frame maybe Sunday, he will be bow hunting Saturday. I also may try nu-blu to refinish the gun. Have a heat gun to warm it up as the job is done. What grit sand paper is the final one? Already have the nu-blu so there’s nothing to loose. Larry
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10-01-2020, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CH4
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How was the turn around and what did the cost look like sir? In having so idea sprout
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10-02-2020, 07:51 AM
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They told me 225.00 to nitrate and about a week or so turnaround. They are 30 minutes south of where I live. The gun has to be apart and all surfaces prepared, they only nitrate the parts. The hard chrome is about the same price, Larry
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10-02-2020, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745
They told me 225.00 to nitrate and about a week or so turnaround. They are 30 minutes south of where I live. The gun has to be apart and all surfaces prepared, they only nitrate the parts. The hard chrome is about the same price, Larry
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Forgive my ignorance sir. Do you need to send/give them the gun appart? I'm thinking of having a Shorty. 40 done this way ...
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10-02-2020, 07:59 AM
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Bring that on the 24th!!!!!!!!
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10-02-2020, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745
What grit sand paper is the final one? Already have the nu-blu so there’s nothing to loose. Larry
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Larry,
I'd try 600 grit to start. Then put a coat of blue on it to see if it matches. Depending on how it looks, you may have to drop down to 400 grit. But more likely 800 may get your match, or 1000. If the fine grit comes out too shiny to match, than you need to go with a coarser grit.
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Last edited by Hondo44; 12-12-2020 at 07:17 AM.
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10-02-2020, 11:53 AM
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Groo here
Interestingggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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10-02-2020, 04:52 PM
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What a great project. I loved reading about the details and tests. I've been wishing S&W would catch on to the 327 Fed Mag for a while now. I don't have enough years left in me to start a project like that.
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10-02-2020, 05:38 PM
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Query on stocks
Very cool project.
I'm just curious where those stocks came from or if you made them yourself.
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10-02-2020, 07:06 PM
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Andy does very good work. Many years ago I had a 5.5 in s/s Ruger Vaquero that I just couldn’t shoot as well as my 4.5 inch vaqueros. I had Andy cut the bbl to about 2.5 inches, remount the sight, remove the ejector boss, remove the bbl markings, slick up the action and build a knurled extension like what is on the old Colt Lightning sheriffs models for the base pin. Turned out very nice and is dead on.
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10-02-2020, 09:02 PM
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Let us know how the frame welding works out.
I have a couple of Model 10 gunsmith specials with the dished frame. I'd like to put heavy barrels on them but have same issue as you. I can't find anyone who will do it because of the heat treatment of the frame.
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10-02-2020, 10:10 PM
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Erocksmash, you’re gun needs to be disassembled and only the parts to be nitrated would be sent to the company, call them. The grips came from an estate and possibly Thailand, they are square butt right now. Jim, the whole gun needs to be refinished, there is minor non- pitted rust. Need to block sand the gun somehow to reduce or eliminate the imperfections. Would 400 wet or dry give a good finish, sorta semi-gloss?? Will report on the welding, may meet with him Sunday. Larry
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10-02-2020, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MonroeT
Let us know how the frame welding works out.
I have a couple of Model 10 gunsmith specials with the dished frame. I'd like to put heavy barrels on them but have same issue as you. I can't find anyone who will do it because of the heat treatment of the frame.
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The yoke is heat treated, the frame is not. To this day I understand that S&W is not heat treating frames. S&W began heat treating all cyls. in 1920. But in fact since 1945 and improved metallurgy, S&W no longer does except magnum cylinders.
Welding frames has been mainstream for years and here's two to consult if anyone wishes who specialize in firearm micro welding:
PULLMAN ARMS
33 Pullman St., Worcester, MA 01606
{ t } 508.926.8730, { f } 508.853.0843
email: [email protected], Dan Harvey- Lead Gunsmith
gunsmith email: [email protected]
Hours: Monday - Friday 8:30am- 5:00pm
>> Gunsmithing Services
Wicked Welding micro-welding
5703 Webster St., Suite J, Dayton, OH 45414
Phone: (937) 454-9023
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10-03-2020, 09:00 AM
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Thanks for the information on welding frames.
Tom
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10-03-2020, 09:52 AM
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The welder I was referred to is a long time tig welder. Says he could stay away from the rib on top which he hasn’t seen yet. He is precise and confident. Will probably take a file with me so any imperfections can be touched up with weld and also a couple of wood paint sticks to clamp the gun in a vise to file. Larry
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10-03-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperMan
Nice...
Is Weigand again making the sight bases? Last I had looked they had stopped...
Bob
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Yeah, I tried to order one a couple of months ago and his web page said he wasn't shipping or no longer making them. Can't remember which. Have been making my own. machine time greatly adds to the cost when you are turning the wheels by hand.
The only advantage is I can size the ramps to fit the guns. His standard ramp looks a little awkward for a short barreled gun.
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10-04-2020, 11:47 AM
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Alternative
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfholmes
What a great project. I loved reading about the details and tests. I've been wishing S&W would catch on to the 327 Fed Mag for a while now. I don't have enough years left in me to start a project like that.
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Great project, like mfholmes, I didn't have the wait time. I found a Taurus J frame sized 3" stainless in 327 with adjustable sights. It's sure not as good a quality as a custom S&W but after spit & polishing the internals to smooth it up, it ain't bad and I have less than $400 in it. I, too, wish S&W would catch on to a K frame .327.
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SWCA 3417 HF 642 NRA-TC
Last edited by reccpd101; 10-04-2020 at 11:48 AM.
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10-07-2020, 08:39 PM
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Had it welded Monday morning and it needs some touch up. Both me and the welder are in a learning stage. Will only re-weld one more time. Have a set of N frame round grips in multiple colors of laminated brown that I will use for the gun. In the sun they glow. Need to remove a little more on the backstrap for the grips to fit but won’t have to remove any metal on the front of the grip for these to fit the gun. This way I can retain the strain screw. Not much wood to remove from the grips. Coming along slowly, Larry
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12-11-2020, 10:15 PM
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Lost ambition, there are 2 more pin holes now and the welder is 30 minutes away plus I waited a month between the first weld and the touch up. Gonna try to get back on track and may cold blue it with the NuBlu that seemed one of the better cold blues. Also giving the frame a round butt modification all with files. Also bought a frame wrench to help out with a few projects, Larry
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12-12-2020, 06:39 PM
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Sometimes I lose traction due to a hurdle and then lose my ambition. I usually just put the project away and let my mind work on it while doing other things. When I get back to it, I often think to myself: Huh, that wasn't as difficult as I thought it would be or it didn't end up taking as long as I thought. It's all part of the process; after all, things just cannot go smoothly all of the time.
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09-13-2021, 09:17 PM
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Went to Andy to pick up a 4” PPC I had made about a month ago. Asked him how much to bead blast and blue the 327 and went back the next week to leave the gun with him. Said he would remove the barrel to reblue the gun which is great since I filed on the frame after having it welded. He called today and “ITS FINALLY DONE”. Will take pictures of it tomorrow and post them. Since tomorrow morning is the Tuesday morning old guy shoot, taking ammo to shoot it to make sure everything is OK. Will start carrying it Wednesday. Stay tuned,,Larry
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09-14-2021, 12:51 PM
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I officially proclaim Jebus35745 King of the 32s. He has found or built just about every one I dream of. If I were a little younger (OK, a lot younger!) I’d ask him to adopt me.
I’m eagerly awaiting pictures and a range report on the finished gun since I’ve followed this thread from the beginning.
Froggie
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09-14-2021, 07:21 PM
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Me too............
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JMHO-YMMV
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09-14-2021, 09:02 PM
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Here are some pictures of the .327. Forgot I left it at Andy’s with no grips so I had to shoot it without grips. Duh!! Shot some .327 reloads, wow what a fire ball. Also shot some .32 mags. Still not sure what grips, the rubber make sense for a carry gun. The Patridge front sight was used for pictures and will install the ramp sight for carry.
Took the K frame pre war .32 target made from a M&P pre war .38 target to shoot also today. Shot about 100 various .32 long ammo through it. Larry
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1911-10MM, 6string, Bastogne71, bigmoose, DGNY, Goblin, Hondo44, Igiveup, KLYDE, kraynky, LLOYD17, mfholmes, Moo Moo, Muley Gil, philbrook3, Rodan, series guy, SS336, StickShift, trinorbsa, Troystat |
09-14-2021, 09:55 PM
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Very nice! You have got to be thrilled with the way that project turned out.
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