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  #1  
Old 07-07-2020, 09:45 PM
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Default Finally a 3” Full Lug in .327-Ransom Rest Results

Made a 15-3 into a 3” full lug .327, hesitated a year. Picked up the gun from Andy Horvath this morning. He cut the barrel to 3”, installed a Weigand interchangeable front sight base and fit the cylinder. I will round butt the gun and maybe bob the hammer then get it refinished. It’s in the first stages but well on it’s way. Think the grips on it will be used because of the nice grain and will need to be fit.

Even fit the Sticky pocket holster from the Kimber K6, Larry
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:03 PM
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Looks like a fun project.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:14 PM
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This looks like a great project! Where did you get the barrel from?
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:30 PM
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Neat project! Tell us more...

Is the barrel from a Model 16? How 'bout the cylinder?
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Old 07-08-2020, 03:48 AM
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Great project!

Tell us about the source for your barrel and cyl please.

Is the cyl a .22 cyl reamed to .327?
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:05 AM
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Nice project! Please share some of the details when you get a chance.
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:26 AM
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Been thinking about something like this for a while and couple yrs ago there was a 4” 16-4 barrel for sale here in the classified. Bam, I was lucky. Was gonna have a retired machinist cut the bbl for me and crown it the best I could. Crowned a .22 barrel with files and it came out OK. The sight couldn’t be reused. Not sure how Andy knows what height to mount a Weigand interchangeable front sight base so he would need to cut the barrel for me. I like the Horvath Custom & .327 Magnum.

The cylinder was for .22 LR and Andy reamed it to .327 abt 9 months ago. Thought I would save money and fit the cyl myself. It wouldn’t fit, not sure why. Played with it for while then decided to let Andy have it so I didn’t ruin something. The ratchet was different and needed filing to make the timing correct.

So out to Andy’s February 25th with the model 15 and roughly 4 months later I got it back. The cost was 325.00, the base was included in the price. The base is 50.00-55.00 delivered to me. Happy so far, will carry it today to see how different it is from the Kimber K6. This may be a cold weather gun under a jacket. Larry
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:46 AM
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Nice...

Is Weigand again making the sight bases? Last I had looked they had stopped...

Bob
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Old 07-08-2020, 09:54 AM
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A perfect candidate for black nitriding. Here’s a M15 I had done. It’s still a .38, however.

H&M nitriding does a great job!
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Old 07-08-2020, 12:37 PM
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Bowen makes the bases now. Is the nitriding a paint process? Larry
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Old 07-11-2020, 10:58 AM
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Bowen makes the bases now. Is the nitriding a paint process? Larry
No, it’s definitely not paint.


H&M Blacknitride+™ | The New Standard in Steel Hardening


Nitriding - Wikipedia
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Old 07-11-2020, 12:42 PM
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Very nice. Now if only S&W would follow your lead.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:35 PM
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Nice piece, I'm jealous. that is about perfect........
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Old 07-12-2020, 09:57 PM
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Thanks for all the comments, had the barrel at least 2 years and wasn’t sure l wanted to put the money out for another .32. Also wasn’t sure if I would use a model 15 or 10. The 3” guns look neat with adjustable sights, especially a gold bead Patridge front sight. With the Weigand base the ramp front sight can be inserted to carry.

CH4, how long ago did you get your gun nitrided? The finish should be durable for carrying daily? Wonder how it compares to metealife hard chrome. Anyone else use Nitriding on their guns?
Andy Horvath is 30 min west and H&M is 30 minutes south.

The only project left in my mind is cutting a 6” model 14-5, -6 or -7 full lug to 5”. Andy could make it happen. Have a 4” 14-6 Roper in the basement and 3 of the 14-6 & -7’s. Would have a set of 4”, 5” & 6” full lug 14’s. Larry
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:21 AM
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Jebus35745, did you ever have that PPC style bull barrel installed on a gun? I remember several years ago that you had that on your project list? Does your little carry gun shoot as accurately as this and your other, longer barreled, 32s?

Froggie
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:12 PM
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Plan to ransom rest the gun tomorrow morning, the tables the rest will be mounted on are movable and not the best for ransom rest use. Better then nothing, my benched sand bag shooting sucks from inconsistent sight pictures. Taking 2 different .327 reloads, 2 .32mag & 2 .32 long reloads to shoot. Will report tomorrow.

The .32 long PPC gun was built on a model 15 frame also and shoots nice. Larry
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:40 PM
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Jebus35745,
Your post inspired me to give Andy Horvath a call to discuss having my K22 cylinder reamed out to 32 magnum. I need it to complete the conversion of a M15 to .32 magnum. Like you, I purchased a 4'' barrel from a member here.
Andy called me right back and I'm happy to say that the cylinder is on its way to his shop.
...Mercury
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Old 07-14-2020, 01:36 PM
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Mercury, what did he charge you?

Here are the ransom rest results. Remember the table used is movable and I pushed it against the wall to help make it stable. The ransom rest is bolted to some wood and clamped to the table. The groups are at least 12 shots at 50 feet. Didn’t like the.32 long Hdy SWC or the .32 Mag LRN. The snappier the load the better accuracy got. The .32 mag JRN did OK but had vertical stringing. The .327 JHP had 2 separate groups but nice and the Hornady XTP’s had an excellent group. The quarter is about an inch in dia. Happy so far, Larry
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Old 07-25-2020, 10:15 AM
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Nice Larry! Looks like a keeper!!
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Old 07-25-2020, 06:16 PM
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Mercury, what did he charge you?

Here are the ransom rest results. Remember the table used is movable and I pushed it against the wall to help make it stable. The ransom rest is bolted to some wood and clamped to the table. The groups are at least 12 shots at 50 feet. Didn’t like the.32 long Hdy SWC or the .32 Mag LRN. The snappier the load the better accuracy got. The .32 mag JRN did OK but had vertical stringing. The .327 JHP had 2 separate groups but nice and the Hornady XTP’s had an excellent group. The quarter is about an inch in dia. Happy so far, Larry
It appears it turns out to be perfectly dialed in for the .32 H&R Mag jacketed load; presuming you used the same point of hold for each target.

When you refinish your project, you may consider welding up the corners on the front of the top strap to match up to the barrel rib. Maybe even the frame and yoke below the shroud. Althoug starting with a M19 frame wouldn't have that issue.

-84423710-0b8f-4576-9f97-50a12ed8ac69-jpg
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Old 07-25-2020, 07:08 PM
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Neat project, looks like a lot of fun to shoot. Regarding the Nitriding I thought the claim by the company linked in the one post was a bit much where they claimed a gain in velocity of several hundred feet per sec.
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Old 07-27-2020, 01:07 PM
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Jim, welding the areas you mentioned would would make the metal flow smoother. This project was on the back burner, not sure I wanted to spend the money on another project. Found a model 15 at a gun show reasonably priced. Walked around after I saw it thinking about the whole process and went back to buy it. The 19’s are priced higher, wanted to keep the costs down. Would have to remove the barrel to do what you said, don’t have the tools to remove it. I remember someone talked about making the shroud smaller also.

Yea, not sure about the velocity increasing if it was nitraded. Still not sure what finish it will get. Was quoted 225.00 minimum for black nitrate and would be done in a week. Need to search more on how it wears over time. S&W uses them on a lot of semi auto parts for their new guns. Can’t be too bad, Larry
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Old 09-02-2020, 12:00 PM
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Jebus35745,
I didn't forget about you asking what Andy charged me for reaming my .22 cylinder to .32 magnum and shortening it so that it fit my M15; I just had to wait for him to give me a final price after he completed it. He initially said that it could be around $130 but he'd have to look at it and see what was involved to be sure.

He called me last week (He's a gentleman, BTW) and said that it was done and that it would be $180 with shipping. So, I sent him a check and am awaiting the cylinder.

I'll have to check the B/C gap and possibly file some of the ratchets but I'll see how it fits and times up first.

I had sent him a .32 SWL cylinder that was on the gun that fit perfectly but the chambers were blown and were splitting brass. He used it as template so as to know how much to remove from the rear of the .22 cylinder.

Take good care,
Mercury
ETA: Grammar

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Old 09-30-2020, 09:08 PM
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Wow, been 3 months and the gun has sitting in the safe with nothing done to it. Tonight I took all the parts out and started to round butt it. Hondo, you will be proud that I bought a frame wrench. Gonna find someone to weld the top front of the frame like you mentioned.May try to make the backstrap smooth rather then filing each groove to make it look original. Filing the grooves is tedious, did it once.

We got a new puppy early July and they need to be watched every minute. Getting better so I can spend time downstairs, Larry
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Old 09-30-2020, 10:16 PM
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Hi Larry,

Yeah, funny thing about projects...I find that no matter how many times I try, just leaving them alone never seems to motivate them to just fix themselves.

I remember your post where you cut those backstrap grooves. If you want to get a firm grip on the gun, how about stippling?
It's fairly easy, and you can go right over the grooved and smooth areas, blending the two together.
You can make your own stippling punches to cut square, triangular, or round impressions, or different sizes depending on the desired coarseness.
For a really snazzy look, you could file just the two outside grooves and then stipple the area between.

Jim

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Old 10-01-2020, 09:58 PM
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I thought about stippling, how would I support the metal while doing it? Found a guy to weld the frame maybe Sunday, he will be bow hunting Saturday. I also may try nu-blu to refinish the gun. Have a heat gun to warm it up as the job is done. What grit sand paper is the final one? Already have the nu-blu so there’s nothing to loose. Larry
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Old 10-01-2020, 10:11 PM
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How was the turn around and what did the cost look like sir? In having so idea sprout
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:51 AM
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They told me 225.00 to nitrate and about a week or so turnaround. They are 30 minutes south of where I live. The gun has to be apart and all surfaces prepared, they only nitrate the parts. The hard chrome is about the same price, Larry
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:58 AM
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They told me 225.00 to nitrate and about a week or so turnaround. They are 30 minutes south of where I live. The gun has to be apart and all surfaces prepared, they only nitrate the parts. The hard chrome is about the same price, Larry
Forgive my ignorance sir. Do you need to send/give them the gun appart? I'm thinking of having a Shorty. 40 done this way ...
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:59 AM
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Bring that on the 24th!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:22 AM
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What grit sand paper is the final one? Already have the nu-blu so there’s nothing to loose. Larry
Larry,

I'd try 600 grit to start. Then put a coat of blue on it to see if it matches. Depending on how it looks, you may have to drop down to 400 grit. But more likely 800 may get your match, or one 1000. If the fine grit comes out too shiny to match, than you need to go with a coarser grit.
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:53 AM
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Groo here
Interestingggggggggggggggggggggggggggg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 10-02-2020, 04:52 PM
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What a great project. I loved reading about the details and tests. I've been wishing S&W would catch on to the 327 Fed Mag for a while now. I don't have enough years left in me to start a project like that.
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Old 10-02-2020, 05:38 PM
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Very cool project.

I'm just curious where those stocks came from or if you made them yourself.
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Old 10-02-2020, 07:06 PM
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Andy does very good work. Many years ago I had a 5.5 in s/s Ruger Vaquero that I just couldn’t shoot as well as my 4.5 inch vaqueros. I had Andy cut the bbl to about 2.5 inches, remount the sight, remove the ejector boss, remove the bbl markings, slick up the action and build a knurled extension like what is on the old Colt Lightning sheriffs models for the base pin. Turned out very nice and is dead on.
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Old 10-02-2020, 09:02 PM
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Let us know how the frame welding works out.
I have a couple of Model 10 gunsmith specials with the dished frame. I'd like to put heavy barrels on them but have same issue as you. I can't find anyone who will do it because of the heat treatment of the frame.
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Old 10-02-2020, 10:10 PM
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Erocksmash, you’re gun needs to be disassembled and only the parts to be nitrated would be sent to the company, call them. The grips came from an estate and possibly Thailand, they are square butt right now. Jim, the whole gun needs to be refinished, there is minor non- pitted rust. Need to block sand the gun somehow to reduce or eliminate the imperfections. Would 400 wet or dry give a good finish, sorta semi-gloss?? Will report on the welding, may meet with him Sunday. Larry
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Old 10-02-2020, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
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Let us know how the frame welding works out.
I have a couple of Model 10 gunsmith specials with the dished frame. I'd like to put heavy barrels on them but have same issue as you. I can't find anyone who will do it because of the heat treatment of the frame.
The yoke is heat treated, the frame is not. To this day I understand that S&W is not heat treating frames. S&W began heat treating all cyls. in 1920. But in fact since 1945 and improved metallurgy, S&W no longer does except magnum cylinders.

Welding frames has been mainstream for years and here's two to consult if anyone wishes who specialize in firearm micro welding:

PULLMAN ARMS
33 Pullman St., Worcester, MA 01606
{ t } 508.926.8730, { f } 508.853.0843
email: pullman@microarcwelding.com, Dan Harvey- Lead Gunsmith
gunsmith email: gunsmith@microarcwelding.com
Hours: Monday - Friday 8:30am- 5:00pm
>> Gunsmithing Services

Wicked Welding micro-welding
5703 Webster St., Suite J, Dayton, OH 45414
Phone: (937) 454-9023
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:00 AM
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Thanks for the information on welding frames.

Tom
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Old 10-03-2020, 09:52 AM
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The welder I was referred to is a long time tig welder. Says he could stay away from the rib on top which he hasn’t seen yet. He is precise and confident. Will probably take a file with me so any imperfections can be touched up with weld and also a couple of wood paint sticks to clamp the gun in a vise to file. Larry
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Old 10-03-2020, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SuperMan View Post
Nice...

Is Weigand again making the sight bases? Last I had looked they had stopped...

Bob
Yeah, I tried to order one a couple of months ago and his web page said he wasn't shipping or no longer making them. Can't remember which. Have been making my own. machine time greatly adds to the cost when you are turning the wheels by hand.

The only advantage is I can size the ramps to fit the guns. His standard ramp looks a little awkward for a short barreled gun.
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Old 10-04-2020, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by mfholmes View Post
What a great project. I loved reading about the details and tests. I've been wishing S&W would catch on to the 327 Fed Mag for a while now. I don't have enough years left in me to start a project like that.
Great project, like mfholmes, I didn't have the wait time. I found a Taurus J frame sized 3" stainless in 327 with adjustable sights. It's sure not as good a quality as a custom S&W but after spit & polishing the internals to smooth it up, it ain't bad and I have less than $400 in it. I, too, wish S&W would catch on to a K frame .327.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:39 PM
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Had it welded Monday morning and it needs some touch up. Both me and the welder are in a learning stage. Will only re-weld one more time. Have a set of N frame round grips in multiple colors of laminated brown that I will use for the gun. In the sun they glow. Need to remove a little more on the backstrap for the grips to fit but won’t have to remove any metal on the front of the grip for these to fit the gun. This way I can retain the strain screw. Not much wood to remove from the grips. Coming along slowly, Larry
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