I like to restore old guns to shooting condition. A lot of the old 1894 Winchesters and S&Ws are over 100 years old and are coated with layers, of powder, hardened grease/oil and plain old dirt. When I take them apart I soak them in ATF for days or weeks. What is your experience using the "red" stuff?
I think its great stuff. Please let us hear from like users!

I use ATF and acetone 50/50. Seal the stuff up and wait a
week or so.Then look at it, bronze wool a little and go from
there. my biggest problem is not wanting to wait for the
stuff to do it's job.

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never get out of the boat

"Ed's Red" is a 50/50 mixture of ATF and Acetone and has been used for years as a penetrating oil/cleaner. I swear by it. Add in Fine BRONZE Wool and rust runs far away. Careful - it's very flammable.

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Mike Maher #283

I admit I fail to see the alure of using mix-it-yourself cleaners that smell nasty and are highly flamable when they are not needed. Maybe I am just an old fuddy-duddy. I like to use gun stuff on guns and car stuff on cars.

When you Do It Yourself". You don't have to depend on stores or anybody.

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S&W Accumulator

Except to get the ingredients and supplies you need.

Actually, Ed’s Red as he developed it is a tripartite mix with equal parts of ATF, acetone, and Stoddard’s Solvent. A later variation of his mix had some lanolin added. Each of the components makes its own contribution to the overall effectiveness of the mixture, but the ATF alone probably wouldn’t have the penetrating ability of the whole mix.

Froggie

Correction: As posted by Ed himself, there is a fourth component in the original formula, K-1 Kerosene, with all four liquids in equal parts then the optional lanolin at a rate of one pound per gallon of the four part mix. I must have sniffed too much solvent over the years... my memory is going!

Didn't the original Ed's Red use a dash of paint thinner, or kerosene? I can't recall for sure, but there's probably a recipe with and without either on the internet. About the only thing I've found that does not allow it to evaporate, is a container like the acetone comes in. I used a metal powder can, but I forgot to add a seal under the lid. Still lasted almost 2 years.

I've put disassembled handguns in a double ziplock for a week at a time, and the stuff works great at cutting the old crud and loosening freckles. Finish removing with a copper penny. (pre-'82?)

Love to see some of those old guns delta-419! Maybe even some before - after pics! We can wait.

Countless stuck things have been unstuck by Marvel Mystery Oil. Which is Stoddard solvent mixed with very light oil.

All I do is disassemble the entire gun, soak all the small parts, springs and screws in Hoppes 9 for an hour or two and then use a toothbrush to scrub off any dried oil, grease or crud. My experience is that if it doesn't come off in a few hours it needs to be scrubbed. If it's really stubborn I will use a Brass or Bronze brush. After that, I will lightly oil and reassemble. I see no real reason to use ATF, Acetone, etc. that was not really meant for the purpose - but if it works for you - what the heck. I don't like using Acetone anymore than I absolutely need to and is my last resort when using solvents. Aside from which I love the smell of Old #9 and I like to see how many minutes it takes for my Wife to complain - LOL!

Acetone, ATF and all the other ingredients makes for a nasty brew and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Use all the protective gear. The one thing that this concoction will do is to loosen parts that are stuck together. I will use store bought formulas IF I can get the piece disassembled. If the item does not come apart then it gets a dip in Ed's Red.

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Mike Maher #283

Ed's Red is just as safe as any similar product on the market, and works far better than anything else I've tried. I have used it to loosen screws in rusty 71/84 Mauser rifles back when I was building them from parts guns bought from SARCO and Classic Arms. Also considering the price to make it compared to say Kroil Oil it makes no sense not to.

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Randy

Another vote for Marvel Mystery Oil. Keep in mind that stuff is tasked with freeing up crudded up valve train components. Doesn’t smell that bad either...........��

OK. I have what is probably an incredibly dumb question. In the old days (when I was a teenager), there used to be Ford, GM and Chrysler ATF. Were these different or all the same?

When y'all talk about using ATF (or mixing with acetone), is there a particular brand or type to use?

1 part Dexron ATF, GM Spec. D-20265 or later.
1 part Kerosene - deodorized, K1
1 part Aliphatic Mineral Spirits CAS #64741-49-9, or substitute "Stoddard Solvent", CAS #8052-41-3, or equivalent.
1 part Acetone, CAS #67-64-1.


In Ed's own words:

https://blog.roninsgrips.com/wp-cont.../04/EdsRed.pdf


I always bought acetone in gallon cans. I've used a bunch over the years cleaning and degreasing guns, so I have plenty of gallon cans to mix Ed's Red in.
I forget which gallon of Ed's I'm on now.......4th?....5th?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Another vote for Marvel Mystery oil. I use it for a variety of gun cleaning chores including as a bore cleaner, with good success.

I hate the smell of transmission fluid.... reminds me of being stuck as the one doing all the transmission work one summer.... couldn't stand to deal with it that long anymore.

GM and Chrysler used Type A(Dexron), Ford used Type F. Many hot rodders in the day with GM cars and maybe Chry. would run F even though it wasn’t the “correct” fluid. Supposedly it was thicker.
Now days the different ATFs would boggle your mind. Type A, F, ATF+4, Dexron IV, Mercon IV + V, plus the mysteriously named “Multi Vehicle” and “Low Viscosity Multi Vehicle Low Viscosity”. These are just to name few. There are more. On cars, follow the mfg. recommendations. Usually in the manual and on the dip stick.
For gun cleaning I’ve read and use Dexron III. Orginal Dexron was superseded by Dex. II , then III. They are organic oil based.
Though I’ve never tried it, people say to avoid the synthetic as it doesn’t mix well with acetone and will separate.

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I told you not to use Lifebuoy

If I remember correctly COL Hatcher used sperm whale oil in his mixture and as cars used to use sperm oil in automatic transmissions ATF is the closest substitute.

Yes - the original ER did have Kerosene - as do many of the popular Bore Cleaners have or had. I also believe one of the main components in WD-40 is Kerosene.

While Acetone works well as a cleaning agent, it also plays badly with some modern materials used these days. My workbench top surface is made of a material called Centra (basically a rubberized plastic material - great for absorbing impact without cracking) and it easts through that if not wiped off immediately. Even if wiped up right away it will still etch it. I have also noticed that it eats through Nitrile Gloves when being used straight out of the can.

While I know many chemicals we use are toxic and aggressive - to me Acetone is one of the worst offenders and so it has become a last resort solvent for me. YMMV. My only suggestion is that it's best to use stronger solvents outdoors while wearing gloves and glasses. As we get older - we get smarter......

Liquid Wrench is what I grab for when dealing with rusted , stuck bolt , screws etc . I used Marvel Mystery Oil for gun cleaning for years . Now I use it or Kroil , whichever I happen to grab . For lack of those in the past I have used diesel fuel to clean a gun with . It worked just fine . I'm not much of one to use / try " home brew concoctions " , esp for gun cleaners . Regards, Paul

My go to cleaner for years even before I heard of Ed's Red has been kerosene and ATF. I've tried adding more aggressive mineral spirits/acetone but I'm not sure it's necessary.

The difference in ATFs is the additive package and not going to affect it's use on firearms.

I mix kerosene and ATF about 90/10 mixed in a 1 quart spray bottle and use it like a pressure washer! The "smutz" gets caught in paper towels in a metal cake pan!

For really bad copper fouling Hoppe's, for really bad revolver cylinder fouling get a sonic cleaner bath.

For lube I use ATF if it rotates, Lubriplate 105 Assembly Lube if it slides!

Smiles,

And it's waaay more fun and satisfying. Many "dedicated" gun cleaning/maintenance products are just plain old every day cleaning stuff relabeled. I have used a of of Marvel's Mystery Oil, and some ATF (ATF has good lubricating qualities, good temperature resistance, acts well as a penetrating oil, and contains detergents). I keep a container of my "soak" on my bench which consists of Marvel's Mystery Oil or ATF, mineral spirits and some Kroil. Excellent cleaning solvent...

. Yep, but most of the "do it yerself" supplies are already in some folks' garage or under the kitchen sink, and there is no need to go to a gun shop or the sporting goods section of the local box store for "gun stuff"...

delta-419,

I became a believer in ATF/Acetone when given a Sharps percussion carbine relic to "fix"; you know, a relic relative to firearms is a gun dug out of the dirt after years and years, a corroded chunk of steel, as in a bunch of parts frozen solid. That Sharps is now operational with new springs and wood, and the owner shoots it regularly. Factory roll marks not completely rusted away are now readable again. It was soaked for two months in a sealed container that was also agitated by being driven around in the back of a pickup. The only thing that would speed it up is an electro vibrator.

Acetone has very 'light ends', in plain English that means it evaporates readily as we know. And will need replenishing unless the part with soaking solution is in a sealed container. A piece of schedule 40, 4" plastic drain conduit with end caps glued on both ends, long enough for the barreled action. Fill the container as full as possible to eliminate air space and evaporation. I also made the tube a little longer than needed, so after cutting off the cap to check progress, if not soaked long enough I could glue on another cap. Once it's sealed, confirm it won't leak.

The guy I restored it for actually bent the lever trying to work the action open when it was frozen/rusted solid! The action didn't budge. So I still marvel at how smooth it operates after the soaking treatment. The metal is so clean, a plain bare gunmetal gray. Like when Naval jelly is used to remove surface rust. Then I fixed the bent lever.


Best Solution for rust removal and freeing rusted SOLID parts.

As shown below, the scientific test proven top solution is not an off the shelf rust or corrosion product, and in fact exceeds them all. And off the shelf products are far from equally effective. Kano Kroil tops them all in testing and some are just a flat waste of money.
Just a few representative tested products quoted in test results including the hands down winner: 50/50 mix of ATF and acetone. Cruddy guns are a piece of cake to clean with this solution.

Average load (Lbs) to release a rusted/corroded test bolt and PRICE PER FLUID OUNCES:

W/O penetrant.................516 pounds … $0.00
WD-40.............................238 pounds … $0.25
PBBlaster ....................... 214 pounds … $0.35
LiquidWrench ..................127 pounds … $0.21
KanoKroil ........................106 pounds*… $0.75
ATF-Acetone 50/50 mix.....53 pounds**.. $0.10


* I’m not aware of KanoKroil removing bluing but may remove patina SINCE IT'S ACTUALLY JUST FINE RUST. Recognize the ATF will not remove bluing.


**Note: 53 lbs. was the load required to release the pre-corroded testing device.
SOURCE: April/May 2007 edition of MACHINIST'S WORKSHOP scientific test of penetrating products to remove rust and measure the force required to loosen rusted-solid test devices. 2007 edition of MACHINIST'S WORKSHOP - Google Search

They are all inferior to (well down the list in test results as can be seen above), and more expensive than ATF, good old tranny fluid. None of the other products have or will ever have the years and level of research and engineering to remove crud and/or rust, keep spotless, and sustain the life of a $4000+ and higher, piece of high tech equipment; your automatic transmission! It's also the least expensive product.

So if you have two parts cruddy or corroded together solid and want them apart, the only thing better than ATF, again as test proven, is a 50/50 solution of ATF and acetone. Nothing approaches its efficacy and performance, nothing. Just soak and agitate, period!

AGITATION IS THE CRITICAL ACTION TO SPEEDING UP THE PROCESS NO MATTER WHAT PRODUCTS YOU USE!

This has been discussed here before albeit that doesn't translate to everyone having had the opportunity to see it.

I hope this is helpful,

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The Machinist's Workshop study results and procedure are discussed in
AvE's video, here (salty language warning, not for schoolgirls):

This one seems has different results:


But realistically more soaking time for comparative results might have more accurate results. Vibration would help all products so likely 'a wash' since it would probably improve all results equally.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

When it absolutely must come apart in spite of rust, Coca Cola does the job. Soap and water cleanup, followed by a little oil or grease.

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S&WHF 366

Gun guy I know who cleans up the ancient ones uses 6 inch pvc with thc caps glued on. Saws in half lengthwise and puts in non-detergent motor oil and the metal. Lets it just sit for 3-4 months, takes the metal out and wipes it off. Seems the best way if You are not in a hurry. Altho if You are in a hurry, You know what usually happens.

I'm told Stoddard solvent is simply kerosene ??? I love Ed Harris' Red. And the lanolin is there for protection. Anhydrous lanolin, that is. (Contains no water)..