I've owned this 10 years and just got around to firing it. The gun dry fires with no issues but when loaded with a 22 mag round it fires the first time but the cylinder "locks" and will not move after firing. I tried 2 separate loads and cleaned it but still same issue. Am I missing something?
Thanks
gary

Have you checked the cylinder endshake? This condition has a way of revealing itself during live fire. Just a quick guess.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Check for firing pin dings in the chambers. It's usually not good to dry fire a rimfire gun of any kind. If the cylinder is dinged, once a shell is fired and expanded, it may be getting caught against the recoil shield by the burr from the firing pin ding. When this happens, any fired cases are hard to extract.

The way to fix this problem is to iron out the burrs or file them off or cut them off with a chamber reamer.

Not having the gun in hand, this is only a guess. It may be something else entirely.

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protocalldesign.com

So what do you have to do to get the cyl turning: swing out the cyl or turn the cyl by hand while cycling the action?

It doesn't take much binding of the cyl to be unable to cycle the action, there's just not enough leverage in the trigger or hammer.

There's two places it binds when it dry fires OK but locks up on live fire, the front or the rear cyl faces.

The front is cyl to barrel binding and the rear is the case head binding on the recoil shield. Look for rub/scratch marks on the front face of the cyl around the chamber holes and on the case head to determine which is the problem.

So you have to troubleshoot by checking for the cause of the rub marks:

Hold the gun up to the light and watch the light space in the cyl to barrel gap with a cold gun and just after firing; is it real skinny and does it change as you rotate the cyl? Measure the space at each chamber with a feeler gauge.

Does the cyl lock up at every chamber after firing that chamber?

Does the fired case appear to have backed out of the chamber? Does it look bulged on the bottom of the case head? Measure the headspace (space between the unfired case head and recoil shield) with feeler gauge.

As D. Brown posted check for cyl end shake-movement of cyl from front to rear.

Let us know what you find and with that information we can discuss fixes.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

My 651 got unburned powder under the star and would get stiff and then lock up from time to time. A stiff nylon brush run under the star might help.

Also - S&W advises to NOT dry fire their rimfire guns, it may cause damage.

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On the Oak Savannah

The cylinder loads no problem and you can turn it by hand. When the gun is fired the casing seems to back out and swell and cylinder will not turn or the hammer will not cock. The only way to open it is force the cylinder open and the casing seems to be locked on recoil shield. The spent casing will not fit all the way back in cylinder.

Like Hondo said, check each chamber for a ding from the firing pin. With a center fire the pin strikes in the center of the chamber and does no harm when dry fired. On a rim fire like yours if dry fire with no snap cap or old brass the firing pin can hit the inside edge of the chamber and displace metal there. Not the outside, back of the cylinder, but down in the recess area of where the rim meets the straight wall. Look carefully at the very top (nearest the outside diameter of cylinder) each chamber and you will see the firing pin marks inside the recesses. This ding can allow a unfired case to enter, then when you fire it the case wall expands and backs up into the recoil shield. The case then slightly springs back smaller and would normally easily move back into the chamber, BUT, it there is a ding in the chamber the ding holds the case in tightly place once recoil has backed it up against the recoil shield and locks up the gun.

Dry firing rim fires can be hard on the cylinder and cause this problem. There is a tool that can be used to move the metal back into place and correct this if its not to bad. There is also the possibility there is another problem with your chambers or recoil shield, but, it you have been dry firing it without snap caps this is the most likely reason.

Thanks for the advise I will inspect again. I have only dry fired this twice since this problem but not sure of the life before me.

Look carefully and let us know. I can be repaired with a chambering iron or a tool made to just fit a 22 mag chamber. The tool has a flat spot that goes where the ding it, then when it is turned the round part of the tool moving around to to the ding area forces the metal back into place.

Midway shows this as discontinued but it wouldn't be hard to make one.

Menck Chamber Ironing Tool 22 Rimfire

PS a C sized drill is the same OD as a 22 magnum case the shank of one could be used to fix a firing pin ding in one

In addition to what steelslaver posted, you may have the problem poste by D, Brown above.

You didn't comment on my suggestion in post #4:
"As D. Brown posted check for cyl end shake-movement of cyl from front to rear."

This could very well cause the results you report. It's also simple for you to remedy; which is shims dropped into the cyl's yoke axis hole in the ctr of the cyl before installing onto the yoke axis shaft.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

picture of cylinder

Attached Images

IMG_1469 (1).jpg (63.0 KB, 39 views)

I only see a couple chambers with small dings on edge of recess. The one at about 9:30 and the one at 11:00 also has a small one.

But the chambers do look pretty dirty. A good cleaning with a wire brush that fits the chambers tight, Plus, a good scrubbing under the ejector star would be my first step. Then check how much end shake there is. Press cylinder forward toward barrel and use a feeler gauge to measure gap between cylinder and rear of barrel. Then measure the same spot with cylinder pressed to the rear. Barrel to cylinder gap should not be less than. .004 when forward. The difference between forward and back measurement is end shake. It should be no more than .002. Automotive feeler gauges are available at any parts house or hardware store.

But, before checking that, how smooth is the face of your recoil shield near the firing pin. Sometimes a burr is raised there and the brass hangs up on it.

Cleaned real well don't have a feeler gauge but will get one today
Looks very close and very little to no back and forth movement when open will give it a try this afternoon

Attached Images

IMG_1474 (1).jpg (86.5 KB, 17 views)

You check for endshake with the cylinder closed. It doesn't matter much when it's open.

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protocalldesign.com

If it has some cyl end play, that will also cause or contribute to the cyl binding.

When the cartridge fires in a cyl with end play, the case slams back out of the chamber by the gases until it rests against the recoil shield. This causes the cyl to slam forward against the yoke which increases the headspace over spec. When that happens the case sticks out there resting tight on the recoil shield. When the trigger is pulled for the following shot, it can't cock the hammer because the case head is dragging across the recoil shield which binds up the cyl. The cyl may move so far forward that it also closes the bar/cyl gap and also causes binding on the front cyl face.

To free up the cyl, it must be forced open manually, and the dead giveaway is the scratches on the case head and possibly also the front cyl face.

Without the cyl end play, the cyl stays put where it's supposed to be, headspace is not enlarged, and the case heads don't get driven back out of the chambers to bind up on the recoil shield.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

That is the exact issue I'm having.
Now to get it fixed! Thanks for all the help.