i have a model 63 & 651 that I changed the trigger spring on both but both have a d/o trigger pull over 12#. I was wondering if this is normal and also why is it so hard to cock both revolvers

If you're having a hard time cocking the guns in single action you may have mechanical issues aside from the springs themselves.

Wolff does make a slightly lighter, 8 pound hammer spring for the J-frame that may help to a degree, but the lighter spring may induce reliability problems. Be sure to check the SA pull with a trigger pull gauge if you decide to change to a lighter mainspring or rebound spring in either of the guns. Going to a lighter rebound spring can make the SA very light in terms of pull, sometimes falling below 2.5 pounds.

Part of the heavy feel of the double action is due to the design of the smaller j-frame. A 10-12 pound factory DA pull is pretty typical for a factory original example of the models you mentioned.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

I inherited a 63, an old Bangor Punta era model, that posessed the heaviest DA trigger pull i've ever encountered. I dont think they make a trigger pull gauge that will measure it. It's unbelievable.

S&W never should have abandoned the leaf spring on the I frames or introduced the J frame with the coil spring.

I converted one shooter grade back to leaf spring and what a joy to shoot.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

J frame guns and especially rimfire J frame guns do have heavy trigger pulls because it is the nature of the coil springs as well as the need to be sure the hammer hits the rim hard enough to fire the cartridge. Playing with different spring rates may be of some help but be sure to test the chosen ammo for 100% ignition.

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S&W factory revolver armorer

Amen, brother. You’ve got a witness! I just love me some small frame leaf spring guns. In fact, I wonder whether my favorite Baby Chiefs Special might benefit from such a conversion. What a concept.

Froggie