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Old 01-06-2021, 08:27 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Default 6906 Anodize vs Cerakoat?

Just got in my order of a Cerakoat kit so I can refinish a P16-40 that was badly abused. Plan on blasting the slide and frame and spraying.

Couple of questions for those that have used Cerakoat. It says to use course sand or aluminum oxide for blasting, not to use glass beads or anything round in that it will not create a rough enough surface.

I have the McMaster Carr #4 (secret sauce) to refinish the S&W slides. It says on the box that it is glass beads and aluminum oxide, assuming it is both? Is the secret sauce sufficient for Cerakoat to stick?

Also, have a 6904 that someone polished the anodizing off of the body of the frame, rails still appeared to have anodizing on it. Considering sending to the mother ship to have it re-anodized, but that cost $170 for the frame. What are your thoughts on secret sauce blasting the frame and then Cerakoating it? Would that be a good final durable finish or should we go the re-anodize route? Some web sites claim Cerakoat is just as durable as anodizing, some claim it scratches easily. All new to me.

Rosewood

Last edited by rosewood; 01-12-2021 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:16 PM
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There are a couple of types of Ceracoat, air-dry and oven-cure.

The bake-on type is very hard, but nowhere near as hard as HA or Type-3 anodizing. The aluminum oxide coating is very durable, if done right.

With the underlying metal being softer than steel, neither coating is invincible.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:27 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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I have the h series oven cure kit.
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Old 01-07-2021, 01:22 AM
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I wish I could help with prep info, a buddy did mine! The aluminum parts coated did pretty well with friction, although dimensions changed slightly. Theyíve done less well with impacts.

For what itís worth, anodizing can be readily removed with some basic household cleaners.

Iím very interested in seeing some pics of your project, thereís 20lb of MMC #4 waiting in the blaster....

The most durable coating Iíve ever seen on a firearm was Robar or similar. Itís a hard chrome that has a matte finish that resembles bead-blasted stainless.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:04 AM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriotX View Post

For what itís worth, anodizing can be readily removed with some basic household cleaners.
I don't want to remove the anodizing, was hoping I could leave what is left especially in the rail area for strength. Wished I had the means to annodize it, but that is beyond what I want to invest in. Cerakoat is cheap and I already have other projects that warrant the use of it, so thought it might be an easy step to repair this 6906 frame for virtually my labor.

Rosewood
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:25 AM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Depending upon what color you want, you might check out the folks who do hard chrome plating or Robar Industries. Decades back I had industrial hard chrome* done to some model 39 frames and it came out well. Try as I might, I can't recall the name of the proprietary process I happened to use. (Armorsomething?) Took several hours, but the grey cells finally kicked in: Armoloy.

If the frame's already detail stripped, shouldn't be outrageous, but, they are dealing with a serial numbered part.

*Thickness is about 0.0001 inches, so dimensional changes aren't an issue. Not sure about other processes, but Armoloy makes a molecular bond with the base metal and is in the 70 Rockwell C range for hardness.

Last edited by WR Moore; 01-07-2021 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:46 AM
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Smile hard chrome

You may also want to search for Mahovsky on this board... Some people here have had good luck with his services... Good luck
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Old 01-08-2021, 09:01 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
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I would say that anodizing is actually better than any spray on type finish as anodizing creates a hard, oxide layer that also penetrates the surface of the aluminum. If you want a different finish that is going to provide surface hardness (very important with aluminum) and durability, plating with nickel or hard chrome are your best bets.
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:05 AM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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If I go with a surface treatment, we will just let S&W redo the anodize. I prefer factory myself. The idea with Cerakoat was to save the $170 they charge.

Rosewood
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Old 01-08-2021, 11:27 AM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is offline
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I have had very good luck with electroless nickel plating on a couple of guns. It has held up well for decades. Seems everyone has forgotten about that one. Someone else did mine, but I think you can do it as a home shop project. I don't know how it works on aluminum. Brownell's has all the info and supplies.
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Old 01-08-2021, 01:49 PM
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Re-anodizing isn't generally advised; the process bonds with the underlying metal, and stripping it to re-anodize removes that metal, creating potential tolerance issues.
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:10 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Quote:
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Re-anodizing isn't generally advised; the process bonds with the underlying metal, and stripping it to re-anodize removes that metal, creating potential tolerance issues.
Too late for that, the previous owner polished the frame to a mirror finish. Did appear to leave the frame rails intact though.

Rosewood
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Old 01-08-2021, 02:57 PM
Hapworth Hapworth is offline
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Quote:
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Too late for that, the previous owner polished the frame to a mirror finish. Did appear to leave the frame rails intact though.

Rosewood
Understood, but the appearance of it being polished away doesn't necessarily mean where it fused with the metal is entirely gone; you might still have dimensional integrity.

I'd Cerakote over that.
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Old 01-08-2021, 03:04 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Understood, but the appearance of it being polished away doesn't necessarily mean where it fused with the metal is entirely gone; you might still have dimensional integrity.

I'd Cerakote over that.
The guy didn't even remove the grips to do the polishing. He only hit was was visible. Did the slide also, but I have already blasted it back to factory spec.

Put the slide on my 6904 frame just to see what it would look like with black frame, looks pretty nice two tone.

Rosewood
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Old 01-08-2021, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewSport View Post
You may also want to search for Mahovsky on this board... Some people here have had good luck with his services... Good luck
Ron Mahovsky Metalife hard chrome done in 1985 on my Python. Still looks new.


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Old 01-08-2021, 07:13 PM
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Consider what is behind door #3;

Brownells Aluma-Hyde II.

Brownells Aluma-Hyde II is a epoxy spray paint that comes in a variety of colors and is only $13.00 a can. It is easy to apply and dries to a very hard surface. I used Matte Black as I was doing a barrel, sight base and a couple of flash hiders

To use it you must degrease the part(s). I use non-chlorine brake cleaner. The air temperature needs to be warmer than 70 degrees and the part(s) should be about 90 degrees. I did a AR barrel this summer and let it get hot laying on the dash of my truck while it was parked in the sun. When it was hot to the touch I painted it. The flash hiders I heated with a Hot Air Gun. I applied four light coats each about 10 minutes apart.

Now comes the really hard part. After the last coat donít touch it for next two weeks. Hang it somewhere out of the way and forget about it. After two weeks it will be fully cured and hard.

There are good how to videos on youtube. I am considering painting a entire AR in a color other than black. Kind of leaning towards Olive Drab Green since I have a couple of FDE ones.

p.s. Steves post reminded that the paint can has to be warmed up and well shaken before use.

p.s.s. I also have a AR that I had the Upper and Lower Receivers and Handguard Ceracoated. I love the final results but it is not as near as durable as the Aluma-Hyde. However as I am not a ďoperatorĒ and will not use it in competitive shooting such as 3-Gun it will be used on the shooting range for other shooters to admire.

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Old 01-08-2021, 09:41 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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But I already have the cerakoat kit on the counter to do a steel gun...
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Old 01-08-2021, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rosewood View Post
But I already have the cerakoat kit on the counter to do a steel gun...
It should still work on aluminum.

Be scrupulous on prep. Disassemble parts from frame,
and soak & scrub it with toothbrush in tub of warm water and
dish soap. Rinse under hot water several times.

A dunk in rubbing alcohol afterward wouldn't hurt.

Handle only with gloves after that. Rig a hanging
wire, long and rigid enough to allow rotating frame
for spraying different angles, without falling off wire
(it really sucks when a half-sprayed part falls and
gets sand/grass stuck to it ).

Use a whole can of brake cleaner to hose it down.
I do it outside,over a box of newspaper, then set the box
out in the sun. Hang it and hit it with a heat gun; the
brake cleaner will cool it to point that moisture will
condense on the metal.

Shake the daylights out of the rattlecan, several times
along the line, and before use. If it's marginal cool temps,
float the can in hot water (wipe it dry before spraying to
avoid any accidental water dripping).

Do the heat curing by the letter. Lower temps & longer
heating is good. Over-temp is bad. Letting it hang by
wire for another week is good, tho tough to do!
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Old 01-09-2021, 12:37 PM
rosewood rosewood is offline
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I thoroughly read the training manual that came with it. Will read again. I will be giving it the white glove treatment per the instructions. My first test will be a magazine.

Rosewood
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Old 01-09-2021, 11:04 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
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Scuff it up a bit.

Alumahyde is good stuff, but a bit pricey.

I'll try Cerakote one of these years, if I can
get some cheap--or the rattlecan mono-epoxy's
start disappointing me. Some guns are likely
pushing ten years now, so not sure that'll
happen any time soon.
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Old 01-10-2021, 12:29 PM
ladder13 ladder13 is offline
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Iíve seen some of Mahovskyís work, itís top shelf. He hard chromes aluminum and his price includes disassembly and reassembly, a steal, imo.
He is getting up in age and a one man shop from what I understand. If I had a gun to refinish without care for originality, heíd be my guy.

Bob Cogan does great work also but more expensive.
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