LET'S TALK RE-BLUING AND REFINISHING

chief38 · #1 08-18-2021, 11:04 AM

I know this has come up many times here and on other forums - specifically to refinish or not and what doing so will add or take away from value. Here is my take and I would be interested to see what others feel.

If one owns a "valuable" or "collectible" S&W Revolver such as a Registered Magnum, a rare variant, experimental or hard to find model, a gun that belonged to a historical figure etc. then for the most part I would not recommend refinishing such a gun as true collectors who are likely to shell out big bucks for them would surely frown upon that. You just want to keep an important part of "history" as true to original as possible.

On the other hand if one has a common model (cosmetically challenged) that is in excellent mechanical condition but has gotten dinged, dented, scratched and suffers from massive finish loss that is another story. Most models such as a common M10, M15, M36, M60, M18 etc. are readily available and would never command a large amount of money anyway. Yes - we all know that today all models are ridiculously priced, but a run of the mill model 10 or 15 would never bring 3, 4, or $5,000.00 unless it belonged to a celebrity or was a part of history somehow.

It would bother me to no end to own and shoot a run of the mill butt-ugly gun and constantly have to worry about rusting & pitting - especially if it were a gun I would never sell anyway. I have had experience with a gun like that. I inherited a Marlin 39A from my Dad that was his when he purchased it in 1946. Over the years it was his most fired Rifle and while in excellent mechanical condition, the bluing was 60% worn off and I was constantly touching it up with Cold Blue and removing rust and always concerned that it was always getting worse. The original stock and fore arm was also in really good shape however the actual lacquer finish Marlin originally applied was 75% gone. Since I will never ever sell it I decided to send the Rifle off to have it re-blued (one of the very few things I will not do myself) and while the Rifle was out at MWG's being re-blued, I refinished the wood. When they asked me what kind of finish I wanted (stating they could make it look like a "show piece", I told them as close to the original bluing as possible. They said OK and did exactly that!

After 2 months, I received the Rifle back and it looked like a brand new Marlin 39A would have looked in 1946. The stock and fore arm work I did also came out great and after putting a dozen coats of 100% Tung Oil on it I reassembled the gun. I will say, it looks just as though it would have looked in 1946 - but now the rusting issues are gone and I am quite proud of this Rifle! Since I am never going to sell it and I will pass it on to my Son, I take pleasure knowing that it will not become a rust bucket and will look great for the foreseeable future. I have no worries or concerns of the value because it will never be sold and even if my Son decided to sell it 40 years down the road, it will bring more money in its present condition than it would have all rusted and peeling - that I am quite confident in. More importantly, I am proud of owning it and get pleasure showing the 75 year old Rifle to people.

I almost always recommend that people not try and save a few bucks buying a "beater" and then trying to restore it - just get what you really want in the first place and in the long run, it will save you much money and lots of aggravation. That said, if you inherit or already have one of these "common" models in rough shape I see no reason not to refinish it or restore it if it is a gun that has nostalgia, sentimental value, or that you just plain like! If the gun isn't sentimental, it sometimes pays to just sell it and buy one in better shape.

In common S&W or Colt Revolvers most times a professional re-blue, Nickel or stainless restoration takes nothing away and makes the gun a lot easier to sell. Yes - true collectors might not want it, but there are not many of those types around anyway. Many many more guys just looking for one of these models in great condition. If they are to be regular shooters - who really cares if it was re-blued? Anyway, this is my take. It might be something to consider next time someone is thinking of asking the common question, "refinish my Dad's Chief's Special or not".

stansdds · #2 08-19-2021, 07:22 AM

I agree, refinishing does not increase the value of a firearm, especially a highly desirable, collectible, very rare, or prototype example. I've considered having my S&W Model 19-3 refinished. It's original stocks disappeared decades ago, it was likely a LEO sidearm based on the scratches, dings, finish wear, and corrosion, all on the external surfaces, but the interior surfaces are in excellent condition. Why have I not sent this ugly thing out for refinishing? Because a good quality re-finish is not a low-cost endeavor.

crazyphil · #3 08-19-2021, 08:13 AM

I got a pretty good buy on this Model 67 No dash, but it had lots of
pits and scratches. So, I took it to a local smith and had him bead blast
it. I am pleased with the result.

glenwolde · #4 08-19-2021, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazyphil

I got a pretty good buy on this Model 67 No dash, but it had lots of
pits and scratches. So, I took it to a local smith and had him bead blast
it. I am pleased with the result.

Stainless guns are different. A little bead blast, they look good, and not that expensive to do. Done it myself. You can even clean them up by hand but the bead blast is worth it.

Hang-Fire Hank · #5 08-19-2021, 08:49 AM

Chief 38:
I did something very similar. I have an LC Smith SxS that was my Dad's, DOM 11/14/46. While I was away for four yrs in the USAF, the barrels rusted. Had them re-blued when I returned.
Then, sometime in the 90's, in honor of my Father's memory, I had everything else besides the barrels restored to original (Walnut wood refinished, checkering re-cut, all appropriate parts case colored). It's since become a "Thing of Beauty and A Joy Forever". I'll pass it on to my grandson with the explanation that it was his Great-Grandfather's, & it's priceless.
Sorry I don't know how to post pics. I'm very proud of it!
Hank M.

diyj98 · #6 08-19-2021, 08:52 AM

I'd put a higher value on original, but a friend of mine refinishes guns. He specializes in Winchester Model 12's. His argument is that "a properly restored firearms increases value". I've heard him say it a hundred times at least

But I'll admit he sells his "restored" Model 12's for more money than ones in the high 90%'s. I can't argue with his sales.

THE PILGRIM · #7 08-19-2021, 09:57 AM

This one has the STAR.
Factory re-finish, I think.

chief38 · #8 08-19-2021, 10:30 AM

IMHO here are the values of "run of the mill" models in descending order. This does not include collectible, historical or celebrity guns!

highest: totally original in excellent condition

middle: faithfully restored to like new condition

lowest: A gun that looks as though it was used as a hammer, anchor and is known as " a beater".

geen · #9 08-19-2021, 10:54 AM

I like the idea of finding more affordable guns that need work and maybe a refin. I have a local smith that does a very noce job hot bluing at a fair price and the finish looks great on S&Ws. Attached are two guns that were in rough shape when I got them and now look great.

1969 Model 36 that had rust, nicks and pitting as well, The trigger, hammer and internals were rusted. The trigger was rough, heavy and unusable. came with dry rotted Pachs. I got it at a real nice price. Hot blued and new Altamont grips.

Before

After

CZ 82 that I cold blued, added wood grips and CZ 75 rubber mag base. I have done 4 or 5 of these CZs. They come from CZ with a black painted on finish. There were a lot available with the finish all chipped off for $100 or $150 back in the day.

Before

After

e

2152hq · #10 08-19-2021, 11:01 AM

The quality of the refinish is not always the same.
That is where 'refinishing' can easily badly devalue a gun.

If you are not concerned with the value, (and even though that point is often stated I find it is hardly ever true,) a poorly polished but 'sure is shiny' brite blued gun returned for your money spent is hardly any way to fix a rust problem. Bluing doesn't keep steel from rusting.

On a common run of the mill firearm, that is void of it's orig bluing but not battered and badly pitted, about the best re-finish is a soft bead blast (glass bead and then either a rust blue or hot blue.
No polishing unless the person doing it really knows their business. That's where the mistakes happen and and the owner pays the most $$ for the poor work besides.

There are big differences betw a refinish, a custom finish and a restored orig finish.
They all have their place.

Some people say don't do anything to Grampa's old gun. Keep it as-is with all the scars, cracks, alterations he did to it to remind you of him.
Others see that gun differently and want to clean it up some and fix a few things on it. Maybe,,perhaps give the wood & metal a new finish.

Their gun. their choice as always.

I've done plenty of these types of jobs for people over the yrs. Some just slight fix ups,,Some complete re-do's. Everyone was happy with the results,,they made the call on what they wanted done.
I provided what I considered the highest quality work no matter what the gun was. A Stevens single shot 22 or a Parker. Didn't matter.

The guns were often supposed to go to grandchildren and such as others past on. I always acknowledged that it was a nice thing to do. But in my mind I think of all the times I bought guns from people at shows who just inherited it from GGF. ,and I bought it for beer & pizza money
..and so it goes.

delta-419 · #11 08-19-2021, 01:19 PM

I go out of my way to find guns that are cast-a-ways from the shooting community. Most are rode hard and are left to "suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune." They (beaters)are great fillers of time and require learning new skills and the development of a specialized form of "critical thinking!" In other words they are a challenge, and in my retirement years, each objective step towards the goal of returning a lost gun to shooter status is worthy of celebration. The photo below was a lost cause at one time and refinished so many times? She works and shoots like she did over 100 years ago. I learned a lot from her. She was blue when she was born and is so again.

JOliver · #12 08-20-2021, 04:39 AM

I agree with the OP for the most part,I do think times have changed over the years and opinions have changed I have seen guns that were refinished years ago for whatever reason but usually to increase the value as back then they looked rough or were rusty and we criticize the refinish if the person is skilled enough to know the difference but by doing that years ago it may have brought the owner a few more bucks but it also helped preserved the gun.
I have seen Smiths that were redone and you can still see the pits under the blue or the hammer and trigger were blued or nickeled which is a turn off UNLESS it is priced accordingly.
This is generally an opinion for us that know the difference, a lot of folks do not and some of those don't even care.
I buy all sorts of stuff and in all conditions if the price is right.
Some people hate when a stainless gun has been polished, I for one don't mind it and have polished some guns over the years as I enjoy working on them and it's a project for me. Now that's a gun with finish issues and I can't recall ever polishing one that was mint.
I have also blued dozens of pieces over the years and there is definitely something to say about redoing one correctly verses a ****** job no matter what the cost. It's a challenge and a project that I simply love to do just like someone working on a car, putting a hotter engine in an old car when a perfectly good motor is in it currently.
I'll use a Python for instance, years ago I wanted a Nickel Colt Python in a 4" and this was before they really got hot in price but they have always been expensive on my income. I found one that had been carried and the beautiful royal blue was gone on one side of the barrel and had many spots on the frame. It had been in the local store for a few years and most folks that were Colt buyers wouldn't touch it and just bad mouthed it, the owner and I negotiated a decent deal and I got it.It also wasn't in time (imagine that a Python out of time) but I had/have a box full of Colt parts and pieces that I scored from a estate sale. I polished it up and fixed the timing and rebuilt it and went against everything my gun buddies were telling me to do as they said I'd never make it right and or I was going to ruin it by changing it to nickel. It now is a Python that I don't mind getting out and shooting/carrying (I have a few) and to me it was one of my favorite projects and decisions I have done. Now if I were to ever sell it I would absolutely inform whomever that it was originally a blue gun and I know that would turn-off some guys especially the serious collectors however if I priced it cheap enough that would put it in the can use and shoot and enjoy category for most and that would be a positive. I used a Colt but the same could be said for a Registered Mag and or some expensive collectible Smiths too. Now some one say leave it alone and save your money but it's all up to the owner as it is their piece.

Just like the poster above with the Winchester Model 12s, some of the older guns that we drool over some of the super slick hand built guns were great at the time but if you find one that has been used those tight tolerance guns can wear and then there are very little parts available and if you don't have the skill to work on them you have to pay someone and seek out the parts and that can get very expensive very quickly but someone that can rebuild on and do it right I can see them charging more than an original one and I wouldn't be turned off by that knowing that it's fresh and been done right.

Here is my Python, so if I tried to sell this gun at say $2500 and told everyone it was rebuilt by me (a nobody) and polished by me and nickeled by George Rogharr of Boca Raton Florida (an excellent refinisher btw)I would have a hard time selling it.
However if I offered it for the $900 that I have in it some may criticize it but I bet I wouldn't own it long! It does have some aftermarket wood grips on it as it came with some pachs but I will put this baby on with a suit for occasions and I've never really had any bad remarks when people see it. It was a fun project, it turned out excellent. It's all subjective

JOliver · #13 08-20-2021, 04:54 AM

Also will add a stainless 60 that was recently purchased by a friend that was in rough shape, had several nicks and bad spots and he wanted it shiny. I have a 14 year old son that enjoys piddling with his Dad sometimes and I've been trying to teach him how to work on stuff and encouraging him to stay off those video games and showing him sometimes with a little work and knowledge you can have nice stuff even if you don't have a ton of money.

So he helped me and has on several of my little projects I have been teaching him how to build a nice smooth action and he did his own Model 14 a few months ago that was a basket case and it now has one of the best actions I have ever seen on a K frame. It was built by using all new old stock parts and that is no small task if you have ever set one up with all new parts getting those sears just right can be a challenge.
The 60....

glenwolde · #14 08-20-2021, 06:14 AM

O.K. how about this one....

I like stainless guns. I don't have a boatload of revolvers like some but the ones I have I shoot quite a bit. Like a couple thousand rounds a year. Each.

Stainless is durable and cleans up easy and can take a lot of normal range use without showing a lot of wear.

My sole blued revolver is a late 60's vintage Model 14 that's in really good shape. Outside of a thin scratch about an inch long near the muzzle I'd call it 99%.

I'm seriously thinking about having it hard-chromed. This is a nice gun, but not rare. They made tons of them.

So who'd be O.K. with that? Not that I'm looking for approval, just curious.

If I get around to doing it I'll be sure to post a question about my stainless 14 just to mess with all y'all.

Screwball · #15 08-20-2021, 06:44 AM

I won’t refinish something with collectible value… but zero issue on common guns. My Winchester 62 gallery gun won’t be touched, same with either of my 1917 revolvers.

My 642-1 was redone in NP3 Plus, mainly because of how often I carry it. Even did the 9mm conversion cylinder. All started because the anodizing looked like ****.

Ruger LCP… it would start rusting within a day or two of pocket carry (my sweat is like battery acid). Sent it to CCR for CPII, which stopped that.

Other guns that are waiting to be refinished are my TAC-14 (want a Marine look), P938 SAS, and my Manurhin PP (1958 model, with low collector value). I do like guns to look nice, but also want better protection against corrosion. I tend to do them in a nickel finish derivative.

kbm6893 · #16 08-20-2021, 07:37 AM

I have a 10-8 I bought from Bud’s for $279 about 7 years ago. It was pretty worn out. I had it refinished at a local shop. I’m happy with it.

max503 · #17 08-20-2021, 09:30 AM

My friend has a hot blue tank. Been thinking of having my 80's era Model 34 re-blued because I will never, ever sell it.

BigChief52 · #18 08-22-2021, 07:49 PM

You can also find examples of what I call honest wear. Different from neglect or damage. These may not have the historical value of General Patton's registered magnum, but tell a story all the same. Usually, they rode in a police officer's holster and were well maintained only showing holster wear and things like worn off finish and blackened wood from speed loaders rubbing against target grips. For me, this type of wear doesn't diminish the aesthetic value of an old revolver, only it's dollar value.

geen · #19 08-26-2021, 06:43 PM

Here is another gun that needed help 1967 19-2
hot blued and refurbed magnas (that were also kinda beat up)

before

after

with new holster from Desert Gun Leather in Phoenix AZ

stansdds · #20 08-27-2021, 08:30 AM

Ehhhh... If I am going to de-value a handgun by refinishing, I'd send it off to be hard chromed.

geen · #21 08-27-2021, 08:40 AM

When I bought the 19-2 the cylinder would not open there were nicks and finish issues, White paint in the logo and lettering that would not come out. and now it is just like I want it. De-valued I don't think so. I'm sure I could get every penny back and then some over what I have into it but that's not the point.

sddave56 · #22 08-29-2021, 04:45 PM

I bought a S&W Mod. 19-4 when I graduated the academy in 1981. I carried it for about five years before we transitioned to semi auto's.

Every day I worked it was exposed to the elements, rain (we didn't cover our guns under the yellow rain coats), salt air from the ocean. Even had a chunk taken out of the wood grip fighting with a suspect.

When I started carrying my Sig P226 the Mod. 19 went into its box, and in the safe. Several years later I decided to thin the herd. Took the Mod. 19 out and sat there looking at it.

If I sell it, Im selling it as is, scars and all. I decided to keep it. Off it went to S&W. I had them go through it with a fine tooth comb. Also had them re-blue it. Now I take it out every so often and actually shoot it.

Since I decided to keep it, Im happy that I had it re-blued.

jeffrefrig · #23 08-29-2021, 05:12 PM

I'd really like to re-do my 10-8, but the cost would be more than the gun is worth. It's great mechanically, i'd just like a nice-looking wheel gun, other than my 15-3 or K22. I figure I'm never gonna make any money on the 10, but I don't plan to sell it.(But, you never know.) I just want to see if I'd like it to look pretty! They made a zillion of these, but someone might like a pretty one. Of course I would tell the it's been refinished. I'm not talking re blue, maybe ceracote or whatever it's called.

cmj8591 · #24 08-29-2021, 11:07 PM

This was a police gun that looked like it had been run over a few times. I sent it off to the mother ship and they did a great reblue. I thought about partsing it out it was so bad but I'm glad I didn't. It's like new now.

sddave56 · #25 08-29-2021, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmj8591

This was a police gun that looked like it had been run over a few times. I sent it off to the mother ship and they did a great reblue. I thought about partsing it out it was so bad but I'm glad I didn't. It's like new now.

Sweet, S&W does good work!

IrishFritz · #26 08-30-2021, 07:27 AM

I believe we would all agree that a collectible gun should be left alone to preserve its authenticity. "Collectible" might mean an out of production standard firearm but in pristine condition or it could mean an out of production firearm that is historically significant or so very rare as to be of interest to a gun collector in any condition. I think these guns should be left alone for posterity.
That leaves millions of good solid "Working" guns out there that are perfectly fine to refinish for their owner's enjoyment- after all, there is a lot more to owning and enjoying guns than collecting. I even think that its just fine to customize a gun to suit the owner's taste. Will that raise or lower the the value? Who cares so long as it adds enjoyment for the owner!
Of course, we all understand that there are hacks out there masquerading as gunsmiths but there are are also first class craftsmen who consistently produce great work- their guns are no longer "factory"but they are wonderful guns none the less.
I guess if I would sum things up I would say that if you have ponied up the money to own the gun it's yours to do with as you choose and really nobody's business but your own.