On new purchase just found rear sight is stuck
in up position as if screw is stripped. Will
turn R-L but sight stays stationary. Is there
a fix other than new rear sight.
Thank You

At this point the best move is to remove the front screw, slide the sight to the rear and remove it from the gun. Be watchful of any part that may be loose under the back end.
You can probably get just the parts needed to get it back in good working order.

It may just need to be put back together without any tension on it. (the elevation screw and it's lower parts)

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Lynnie, Professional Pest

Will give it a try.
Thank You

The rear sight elevation screw threads into a square boss that engages the frame in a keyway. If the screw or boss is stripped, they can be easily replaced without replacing the rear sight.

I would start out but making sure you have the right sized screwdriver and just simply loosen the front screw a few turns. Then try to screw the elevation screw down in a Clock-wise direction. You shouldn't have to remove the front screw unless somebody has bent the whole sight tongue up for some reason.

If the elevation screw is messed up it is held in place by a ring of spring steel that fits into a groove. If the first suggestion I made doesn't work , then I'd suggest you take it to a Pistolsmith and have it done right.

A few months ago I messed up an elevation screw and ordered a new one from S&W along with two extra retaining rings, plunger springs and plungers. The parts were for an old gun but Smith sent me the parts at no charge, including shipping.

Julian

Fixed,loosened front screw and elevation screwed in. Thanks to all, good to know
that many tech people on forum.

If you need to replace the elevation screw, the spring clip that holds it is a @#%$#@ to get off, and very easy to lose. If you have a sharp pointed dental pick it can be useful.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Just replaced the elevation screw and square boss yesterday that were stripped. The retaining spring that holds the screw from falling out is a bear to get off even with a dental pic it took me about 20 minutes and a couple sore fingers. Make sure not to lose the spring and detent in the screw. They are small and can get lost easily.

Got a 686 today and had same issue. The adjustment screw is the nut and was over tightened by factory. I took sight off and flipped it upside down, placed screw head on something soild and FIRMLY tapped the square piece and it loosened it right up. Now I can adjust the elevation.

I have the same problem on a Model 14-4. The gun is shooting much too high, and I can't tighten the screw to adjust it.

The rear sight is now removed from the gun. Here are three photos:





From reading the above, I understand there is a chance the screw can be screwed into the "square plate", so the sight is adjustable. How do I position the parts to try to do this - hold the square fitting with pliers, and try to screw the adjustment screw in clockwise?

Right now, the entire assembly, the square plate and the screw, moves up and down quite a bit. Maybe that means that the parts may not be stripped?

If I need to call S&W for replacements, can someone suggest what parts I need to ask for?

Seems to me that if the screw and the "square fitting" both move up and down together in my hand, maybe I somehow just need to get the screw started threading into the "square part".

Added later - I assume this is a normal right-hand thread. If not I'll try screwing it counter-clockwise.

It looks like the screw is already all the way down on that one. The "square fitting" has the screw on it. The part with the screwdriver slot on top is actually the nut. It is a right hand thread, #3-80. You need to hold the square part and turn the screwdriver counter clockwise to get it loose.

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protocalldesign.com

Thanks, I didn't realize that. So the part on top is really the "nut", and the square fitting has the "screw" on the top.

I can put one finger on the bottom of the square, and another finger on the top of the "nut", and the assembly moves up and down. Is that normal?

If I press down on the "nut" with a screwdriver, and prevent the square fitting from turning, it sounds like the nut and screw will eventually separate - presumably at that point, the square piece would fall of, and the nut would be retained by the spring parts. Is this correct?

I do have another rear sight assembly, which originally was on a Model 28 Highway Patrolman. It's too long to fit onto the Model 14, but if I want to take off the screw, there should be no problem, right? Maybe I can try to put the screw from the Model 27 onto the Model 14, where maybe the nut on the Model 14 will engage the threads, and it will work. If I can get the rear sight blade down just a little, I can shoot the gun while waiting for new parts. (I'll call S&W in the morning.)

Thanks for all the advice. A few hours ago I didn't have a clue as to how any of this works. Now it makes sense.

I removed the "screw" from both of my rear sights, and the thread on both of them was fine. I re-assembled the sight on the gun, and adjusted the "nut" almost as far as it could go. I then took the following two photos, how far down the sight is going, as seen from the side, and also a view from the rear. If everything else is correct, then maybe the gun has the wrong sight blade in it.





If it's dry tomorrow, I'll see if it shoots any lower. Since it ought to be able to shoot "center hold", and it's nowhere even close, maybe it came with the wrong blade. How can I find out what size blade is appropriate for a standard Model 14-4 ?

More information:
I think this is the right page for my Model 14-4:
Smith & Wesson 14-4 Revolver Parts, Schematics | Numrich Gun Parts

If so, this might be the correct sight blade:
Rear Sight Slide, White Outline, New Factory Original (.126) | Gun Parts

It specifies the size as 0.126"

The part that's in the rear sight right now seems to be very close to the 0.126, so it's probably correct.


If tomorrow is dry, I'll try it again, but this makes no sense. If the shots are hitting too high for a sub-6 hold, they'll be that much worse if I was trying to shoot center-hold, which is probably what the gun was designed for.

None of this makes sense to me - one way or another, the rear sight blade needs to be much lower, so I can lower the point of aim when I align the sights.

One last thought...

This is a photo of my Model 28, after adjusting for sub-6-o'clock hold:


Maybe the real answer is staring me in the face - is the rear sight supposed to be flat on the bottom? Mine is bent, so the rear end is up in the air. Maybe that is the entire problem, and I either need to make it flat, or replace it.



Is this the way it's supposed to look?

I once owned a 629-6 I had bought new. The rear sight assembly was defective from the factory. Called S&W and was told to order complete new rear sight assembly at my expense.

Yes, it needs the "spring" action

The curvature of the tang is what makes it elevate when the elevation screw is turned CCW. Otherwise (straight) it would not go up and down, it would just be all the way down all the time. You would have no elevation adjustment.

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protocalldesign.com

I had two long talks with Paul in S&W Customer Service. As he explained it, these old sights were made by hand, were machined, then treated, then the "blue" was applied. Different assemblers used different ways to bend the sight assembly - it's supposed to be bent, but not as much as mine is. Assemblers used to put the rear sight in a jig and hit it, and told me maybe they hit it twice, not once.

His advice if for me to carefully straighten it a little, gripping it in a vice with wood protecting the sight, and giving just enough pressure to bend it slightly. The part was designed to have a small amount of bend, so he doesn't want me to remove any more than necessary.


I will try it as soon as I get to the range - if I've already moved it enough to allow me to shoot sub-6-o'clock hold, I'm done. I can't see much purpose in adjusting it for center-hold, unless I'm going to shoot that way. Maybe I'll buy new parts anyway, and assemble a replacement sight.

I hope to be able to test this in the next few days, before the next hurricane hits the Miami area. Visually, I know the back end of the rear sight is lower than it used to be, but it's not as low as the new sight I installed on a Model 28, which is now sitting just above the frame. .....to make it perfect, I should un-bend it a little, but those tiny threads in the elevation sight adjustment make me overly cautious.

(.....and I may just order a replacement rear sight anyway, but I'd rather test the gun the way it is now before I do anything else.)

No matter how much the sight tang is bent, the screw-nut will lower the sight.

But the threads must be clean, the threaded hole in the screw-nut must be empty of all machining chips and debris, and the threads need lubrication so they don't seize up under pressure.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

I think I figured out the problem, and it has nothing to do with what I was thinking yesterday.

I think my problem is because the “leaf” isn’t going down far enough in the end, where the sight adjustment is located. I thought this was because of the bend in the leaf, but this morning I didn’t see how the bend has anything to do with it - the height of the leaf, towards the rear, is mostly controlled by the distance between the “post” and the “nut”, which we adjust by screwing the nut in and out.

Then it hit me - when the sight assembly is removed from this gun, I can press the entire screw/nut assembly up and down - it’s free to move quite a bit.

Here are two photos of my Model 28 - it had the same issue, and I solved it by replacing the entire assembly. These photos are to show the height of the “nut” above or below the “leaf”:

This photo shows the sight assembly, as I removed it two years ago from the M-28 which had the same issue.
When I press up on the leaf, to simulate the force that it would deal with on the gun, the leaf raises up quite a bit OVER the nut.



This is a photo of the replacement sight assembly, which is now mounted to my M-28.
The leaf and the top of the “nut” are level.
This means the leaf has to be "lower" on the gun, since it isn't sticking up above the nut:



My Model 14-4 also has the leaf sticking up above the nut, almost as much as in the top photo.

My conclusion - I am pretty confident the leaf in all my guns is fine, and to fix my problem, I just need to replace the nut and any related parts under the nut that I’m not yet aware of, I think it is extremely unlikely that the steel leaf could be damaged to cause this.

Next step is to identify the other parts that might be underneath the elevation adjustment nut, and replace all of them.

(If the two photos don't show up, right click on them and select "open in new window".)

I guess I'm back to this response that was posted some time ago.

Is there a washer or something that is designed to keep the nut from dropping so far down into the leaf?

No. The screw nut should not be able to go lower than the top surface of the leaf. If it does, its hole in the leaf must have been drilled over size.

There's only a retaining snap ring on the screw nut below the leaf to keep it from coming up and out of the tang. Does yours have that retaining ring?

In this photo the parts are shown except for the snap ring. But if you click on the photo and zoom in, you can see the groove on the screw nut where the retaining ring seats:


Photos thx to Linde

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Jim
S&WCA #819

The elevation is controlled by the "nut" with screw slot that shows on top of sight body. The head off the nut has a crossing hole below the slot that has a small spring and plunger in it that clicks into the corners of the hole that the nut sets in. Look carefully at the hole in sight body. It is not round, but hex shaped. The nut also has a groove in it just below where it passes though the sight body. This groove has a small steel split ring that goes in it and keeps the nut in the sight body if it is completely unscrewed from the elevation screw. The elevation screw has a thin square head (some of the newer ones have one rounded side) and shaft with threads. The head of the screw fits in a slot in the bottom of the slot that the sight body sits in. (It can be a bit of trouble to line the screws head up perfectly with its slot if you remove sight by removing screw in tang of sight body BTW. The slot that the screw head rides in is fun to machine into a frame when you modify one from fixed to adjustable sights.

What keeps the nut from moving down in the sight body is a shoulder on it.

Here is the screw
Smith & Wesson Rear Sight Elevation Stud S&W K L N-Frame
Here is the Nut
Smith & Wesson Rear Sight Elevation Nut S&W All Models
You can see the hole the small spring and plunger goes into and the groove where the retainer ring rides.
Here is the retainer ring
Smith & Wesson Rear Sight Elevation Screw Spring Clip All Models

That and the tiny spring and plunger is all there is besides the sight body and special groove in frame for the screws head. I have to wonder if some of you with body way up and not being able to lower sight enough have the screw head on top of its groove.

Hondo beat me to the draw I see. LOL

BTW, the best way I have found to install a rear sight assembly is to first slide the screw into its small slot in frame, then place the sight assembly on top and start the elevation nut on it, turning it on about 2 complete turns then hold down the sights tang, start and tighten the screw that holds the assembly. Trying to perfectly align and slide the screw's square head into the tight fitting slot it fits in, while it is attached to the sight assembly can be a study in your frustration levels

Mission accomplished.

Yesterday I took half of the "bend" out of the sight. It's still bent, but not as much.

Got to the range, and could "almost" do center hold, but with black sights in front of a black bull, I didn't like shooting that way. I changed back to sub-6-o'clock hold, .

So, when all was said and done - taking some of the bend out of the sight body was the needed repair.

Thanks to everyone here for your ideas.

I'm glad to hear you're happy with it.

Although the bend in the sight tang cannot affect sight adjustment. The front attachment acrew if loose) and elevation screw are the only things that can control the sight position.

Unless the sight movement was binding on the elevation screw the spring tension in the tang makes no difference except to make the elev. screw harder (with larger bend) or easier (with less bend) to adjust.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

What you wrote sounds logical, but un-bending the "leaf" did fix things for me. The idea came from the technician at S&W, who told me how it might have gotten bent too much and how I might fix it.

Regardless of why it should or shouldn't fix my problem, it did.


The Model 28 then sat in my gun safe for a while, until I took it to the range yesterday. As I adjusted it to sight it in better, it seemed like adjusting either the windage or elevation screw made a change to both. Technically, that doesn't make sense. I decided there must be some "crud" in there somewhere, so I lubricated all the parts with penetrating oil last night, and again this morning. Now it "feels" like it's working find. Will find out at the range tomorrow if it really is.

When you have time, please watch the following YouTube video, starting to pay attention two minutes into the video. As the fellow turns the windage control, you see the sight blade moving every way possible, sideways and vertically. That's what my sight looked like long ago. This would cause one problem I'm describing, as adjusting the windage screw also changed the elevation setting:


I'm surprised the fellow repairing the gun didn't notice, and fix this.

Another YouTube video - I never saw this until a few minutes ago. This makes a very difficult thing for me to do, into something that looks simple:

It it possible that the slot for the square headed screw is a bit high.

Try this. Remove the screw, leave the nut in place in body. Then hold the sight in position. The bottom of the sight body should bottom out or very nearly so on flat above hammer. If it does bottom out and does not bottom out when it is assembled you could file a small amount off the bottom of the nut and the top of the screw, this will allow the sight to be pulled down deeper before the nut /screw assembly bottoms out.

My problem with sights is always that they won't go high enough. Plus, fixed sight guns always shoot low for me.
Lots of my guns have higher rear sight blades and some filed down front blades. Big, heavy hands, wrists and arms that hold the gun from raising in recoil.

The reason Smiling Larry's sight was moving up and down was he has a bend wind age screw and it wobbles the blade up and down as it turns. Notice how it goes down when one flat of screw driver goes up and then goes up as the other side does. An up and down every 360 degree turn = bend screw.

The reason Smiling Larry's sight was moving up and down was he has a bend wind age screw and it wobbles the blade up and down as it turns. Notice how it goes down when one flat of screw driver goes up and then goes up as the other side does. An up and down every 360 degree turn = bend screw.

Brilliant!!!!!!!

You are the only person who has come up with not only a plausible explanation, but with once per revolution, it makes total sense to me!!!!

You just fixed the problem on two of my guns, one of which I'm sure was dropped before I bought it. I couldn't fix this, nor could the gunsmith who re-assembled all the parts for me when I didn't understand how to do it.

You just made my day. THANK YOU !!!!

I have at least one extra screw - will buy another.

Hey, in Larry's video, he did say the gun was dropped. Nobody else has put two and two together, and gotten the correct answer.

I am not sure you need to buy a screw. Turn the wind-age nut so the blade goes up the highest in its slot in the sight body. Bottom out the elevation screw and then lightly tap the top of the blade with either a small brass hammer or place a piece of brass or aluminum on it and then tap that. Try turning wind age screw and see if it moved enough or to much.

The screws are not very heavy. With a bit of time and study you should be able to "form" it back straight

I spend about 6 years in my 20s fixing photo copiers. I was taught that we didn't bend parts. We formed them. Customer speak. LOL
I was really good at fixing the machines and not so good at fixing the customers who caused far more problems than the machines. I guess I was a little heavy handed "forming" them LOL

Thinking about what you wrote, I will try this next time. I think it will be very important to find the exact setting so the blade is at the very top. Hitting with a hammer at any other location might turn the screw into some twisty thing that moves the sight all over, and is that much more difficult to fix.

To "bottom out" the elevation screw, do you mean to lower the blade until it is resting on the frame? On some of my guns, I wasn't able to get it to move that far. I think if I wanted to do what you suggest, I would remove the sight assembly from the gun, just one screw in the front will allow this.

The way you think about this, what is the difference between "bending" and "forming"? The more I think about this, saying we are "un-bending" the parts might be most accurate.

Final thought - other than un-bending (or forming) the leaf, some of my sight assemblies wouldn't allow enough elevation adjustment range to get the gun to shoot sub-six, or center. For me, taking some of the curve out of the leaf was the only way to fix it. That's what the S&W tech people also told me. If you've got an easier way to do this, please describe how you did it.

Bottoming out the sight makes it firmer. Takes the tangs spring out of it. You don't want to bend the blade. Just the screw. It is very skinny. It should not take much to form (or un bend bend) it back. Unless you whap it so hard you mess up the sight you have nothing to lose. Screw will get broke anyway if you change it out. You could probably bent the new one if you tighten it to much before staking it. They are light

I have taken them apart, milled frames and installed them. The body isn't very fragile, just the screws and of course those tiny plunger springs. I guess it would be possible to mess up the edges of the slot in the frame that hold the square head. but that would take pulling up onthe sight.