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  #1  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:40 PM
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Default Brass brush or plastic

Hello all,
I got a question. I'm starting to think I'm brass brushing my barrels too much. I did buy those nylon/plastic barrel brushes.

What do you guys think? Do you think brass brushing too much a barrel will harm it?

For your consideration are my uses. Guns shot weekly are cleaned (except for last week) . Barrels are brushed. Cleaned/ wiped. Lightly oiled then another pass to dry. On the shooters that are shot weekly.

Mostly shooting plated and jacketed only. No bare lead or coated.

I think that's all. I can't think of other considerations.

What do you think? Again. Brass brush or plastic. Or it shouldn't harm anything.

Lou
  #2  
Old 06-24-2022, 05:46 PM
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I always use brass / bronze. They are much softer than steel, and will not harm a barrel. Nylon type brushes do not do a good job removing fouling, and may react to some solvents. I would also avoid stainless steel brushes, as they can be harder than the barrel steel, and cause wear / scratching.

You are more likely to wear and damage the crown of your barrels from excessive rubbing by the dirty, gritty cleaning rod. I always use a cleaning rod bore guide, or a pull thru system like a bore snake.

Larry

Last edited by Fishinfool; 06-24-2022 at 05:52 PM.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:48 PM
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Brass is very soft - and much softer than steel.
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Old 06-24-2022, 05:55 PM
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Brass brush for centerfires and shotguns. No bore brushes for .22 LR caliber guns.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:43 PM
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Plastic brushes belong IN THE GARBAGE.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:50 PM
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Brass. Not worried a bit, but I don't brush what I don't need to.
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:53 PM
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Brass brush or plastic

Ok. Sounds good.

Just curious if there was a reason to sell those plastic brushes . I've noticed some manufacturers now include plastic barrel brushes in their boxes too. Maybe a cost saving expense?
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Old 06-24-2022, 06:58 PM
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I prefer brass brushes. Never tried plasitc
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Old 06-24-2022, 11:30 PM
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I have on occasion used a nylon bore brush if all I fired was as relatively small quantity of low velocity plated bullets. Mostly I use brass / bronze brushes.
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken158 View Post
Brass is very soft - and much softer than steel.
even softer still if the barrel has a nitride finish. I think those are like 70 rockwell c. very wear resistant. 4150 or 416R stainless are around 40 C
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:52 AM
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Plastic brushes are totally useless! Bronze brushes aren't that effective for leading and simple fouling doesn't need any more.

FWIW, the wire used in stainless steel brushes is softer than barrel steel too although everyone seems to be afraid of it! I have barrels, both stainless and carbon steel, that I have been using stainless brushes for many years because they are far more effective than bronze. here is no observable damage to any of these barrels. Think about it, which is more likely to cause damage, 6-10 passes with a stainless steel brush, or sometimes 50, or sometimes many more, with a bronze brush to get the same result!

I've been doing this (gunsmithing) for many years and have yet to see a barrel that was damaged by a stainless steel brush!

Be afraid of stainless steel brushes if you want or save a lot of work removing leading, it's up to you. Remember, much of what everyone posts and believes is a result of "It sounds right so it must be true", and not determined by actual research. Internet myth is very strong, especially when combined with peer pressure!
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Old 06-25-2022, 06:30 AM
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I mostly use bronze, but I do use nylon bore brushes when applying an aggressive solvent intended to remove copper fouling from rifle barrels. Bronze is mostly copper and the solvents can degrade the brushes prematurely. Good bronze bore and chamber brushes aren’t cheap and I like to make them last as long as possible.

I’ll make a few passes with a bronze brush to remove loose debris, then dip a nylon brush in the solvent (Hoppe’s Bench Rest, Sweets, Barnes CR-10, Etc…) and make a few passes through the bore. I let it work for about 10 minutes, then wipe it out with dry patches. Most of these solvents have a warning about how long to let it soak. If the bore is heavily fouled, I’ll resort JB Bore cleaner and Bore Brite.

I follow that up with about 10 passes from a bronze brush, then a patch soaked in Hoppe’s 9 and then dry patches again until they come out clean. I apply a light coat of oil before storing the gun, but I wipe that out before shooting the gun again.
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Old 06-25-2022, 08:58 AM
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Brass brushes are just fine. The effects pale compared to a jacketed bullet flying down the bore with its associated heat and pressure is.

As noted above, watch out for grit caught between the cleaning rod and bore. Just wipe it off frequently. Use a bore guide where you can. If you can't use a guide, like with a revolver, then use a small diameter rod and carefully guide it into the muzzle with your fingers.

Last edited by Krogen; 06-25-2022 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 06-25-2022, 11:21 AM
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I use stainless brushes as well as brass. Stainless won't harm the bore, they do clean better than brass and much quicker.
Not always needed, but when they are, they are a good choice to remove heavy crud.

No brush will remove rust that is down in pits that are in the bore. The bristles just don't get down in there well enough. They mostly skip over the pits and clean the smooth surfaces.

They won't remove pits either as most realize but some still imagine they will. Pits are just that. Craters in the steel surface.
If they did remove the pitting,,they would be removing steel from the bore to level the surface,,and it wouldn't be uniformly. Any rifling profile would be badly deformed in the process.

Most guns need little brushing during cleaning, many need none.
Over aggressive cleaning likely damages a bore, crown, lead rifling and chamber throat more than the firing that most people ever do.
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:50 PM
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Having tried synthetic brushes briefly and found them lacking for serious cleaning, I also prefer bronze brushes. However, I figured there would be a number of synthetic brush advocates here, especially nowadays.
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Old 06-25-2022, 12:57 PM
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there is a wide variance in synthetic brush quality. brownells and Eliminator Premium Bore Brushes – Iosso.com spring to mind for the stiffer, quality ones. there are several others.
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Old 06-25-2022, 02:13 PM
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I posted on another forum about using a stainless brush to clean the cylinders on my two Single Sixes and you would have thought that I had advocated drowning puppies . NOT the barrel , just the cylinders .
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Old 06-25-2022, 03:12 PM
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I was always taught you should not use a bronze brush if you are using a solvent with ammonia or designed to dissolve copper. They will slowly dissolve copper out of a bronze brush and your patches will never not come out with a blue tint (and never know if your bore is clean of copper fowling). Plastic bristle brushes are for use with copper solvents. If I am cleaning a gun with copper fowling I first use a bronze brush and Hoppes #9 to loosen powder fowling then switch to a copper removal solvent and a plastic bristle bore brush.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGPM1A View Post
I was always taught you should not use a bronze brush if you are using a solvent with ammonia or designed to dissolve copper. They will slowly dissolve copper out of a bronze brush and your patches will never not come out with a blue tint (and never know if your bore is clean of copper fowling). Plastic bristle brushes are for use with copper solvents. If I am cleaning a gun with copper fowling I first use a bronze brush and Hoppes #9 to loosen powder fowling then switch to a copper removal solvent and a plastic bristle bore brush.
With handgun bores, none of this matters much, but it's different with rifle bores when using jacketed bullets. Bronze brushes will eventually come out with no blue or only a slight hint of blue after using copper solvents. I consider them clean at that point, but I seldom clean to where all the copper is removed. A bore scope will easily tell you where you're at if you really need such information.

Depending on the barrel, it's unnecessary to remove every trace of copper (or carbon). Granted, when accuracy falls off, the problem is likely copper or carbon fouling or both. In this era of fastidious cleaning of everything, I've found it sometimes detrimental to get a barrel too clean.

With an accurate rifle barrel, it's often necessary to fire up to a dozen rounds to get a good barrel shooting again after it's been stripped to bare metal in an overzealous cleaning process, removing all carbon and copper.

Some years ago during a tour of Ed Shilen's barrel shop, Mr. Shilen remarked that copper removal was only necessary when accuracy falls off. Who would know this subject better than a long time barrel maker and benchrest shooter?

There are exceptions to everything and there may be a legitimate use for synthetic brushes, but many of us haven't found that niche and may never.
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Old 06-25-2022, 04:53 PM
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That's right. I remember using hoppes and it does turn the brass brushes green/ blue. And corroded them.

I haven't had that problem with Mpro7, clp and wondered why. The brushes do come out black . But that's just the fouling/ carbon.

Brass brush or plastic

Great responses guys! I just cleaned some guns earlier today. And used brass brushes. It's just that you clean them all the time and wonder if any different a process might be better or give better results. And what's more better than to ask.

To be honest I've never had any problems using brass brushes but figured they must sell those nylon brushes for a reason. And what would be the reason.
Rgpm1a' reasoning sounds right. Maybe for use with just copper solvents as to not errode the brush. That would make sense.
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Old 06-25-2022, 05:56 PM
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I prefer the IOSSO Eliminator blue nyflex brushes. They are better than nylon and not as aggressive as the bronze or stainless brushes. The best of both worlds. IMO....
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Old 06-25-2022, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
With handgun bores, none of this matters much, but it's different with rifle bores when using jacketed bullets. Bronze brushes will eventually come out with no blue or only a slight hint of blue after using copper solvents. I consider them clean at that point, but I seldom clean to where all the copper is removed. A bore scope will easily tell you where you're at if you really need such information.

Depending on the barrel, it's unnecessary to remove every trace of copper (or carbon). Granted, when accuracy falls off, the problem is likely copper or carbon fouling or both. In this era of fastidious cleaning of everything, I've found it sometimes detrimental to get a barrel too clean.

With an accurate rifle barrel, it's often necessary to fire up to a dozen rounds to get a good barrel shooting again after it's been stripped to bare metal in an overzealous cleaning process, removing all carbon and copper.

Some years ago during a tour of Ed Shilen's barrel shop, Mr. Shilen remarked that copper removal was only necessary when accuracy falls off. Who would know this subject better than a long time barrel maker and benchrest shooter?

There are exceptions to everything and there may be a legitimate use for synthetic brushes, but many of us haven't found that niche and may never.
I think you are right about pistols. Copper fowling is almost never an issue - least for me.

I also think you are right about over cleaning a barrel. If I overdo it my bench rest rifles will take 15 to 30 fowling shots to settle back down after cleaning.

One thing about copper solvents and bronze brushes I have found is they last a lot longer if they are not used with them (the bristles start breaking off and causing their own issues). So I always use a plastic bristle brush with the copper solvents.
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Old 06-25-2022, 07:18 PM
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I use the plastic brushes to add solvent to my barrel and revolver cylinder
to help keep down the wear on my Brass brushes.

The good brass brushes are used at the end of my cleaning job, so they stay snug
and don't get worn down as fast.

I also let the "Bad areas" soak for 20-30 minutes with solvent, to make
removal with a cotton patch, on the 1st pass, get as much crud as possible.
A tight cotton patch fit, is needed, even if you need two patches or one
that is made for a larger caliber,
and don't use the patch twice, you want to remove the grime, not re-apply it !

I will also use a stainless brush, if I shoot a lot of copper in a session.
Again, with a soaking with a copper remover, but you need to read, how long to soak
before it MUST be removed.

Soap & water is used on the brush , followed by some solvent , to protect it, from rust and chemical reactions.

One reason I seldom use this type of brush, and only for a major cleaning.
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Old 06-25-2022, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lou_the_welder View Post
Hello all,
I got a question. I'm starting to think I'm brass brushing my barrels too much. I did buy those nylon/plastic barrel brushes.

What do you guys think? Do you think brass brushing too much a barrel will harm it?

For your consideration are my uses. Guns shot weekly are cleaned (except for last week) . Barrels are brushed. Cleaned/ wiped. Lightly oiled then another pass to dry. On the shooters that are shot weekly.

Mostly shooting plated and jacketed only. No bare lead or coated.

I think that's all. I can't think of other considerations.

What do you think? Again. Brass brush or plastic. Or it shouldn't harm anything.

Lou
brass is softer than seel, NO PROBLEM.
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Old 06-26-2022, 01:11 AM
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I believe we are taking Bronze and not Brass vs plastic. Like others have mentioned, Bronze is the only thing I use. Plastic is useless and can be attacked by some solvents.

After cleaning firearms for 57 years I’ve seen ZERO damage on any of my guns. I buy the bulk packs of a dozen per bag from Brownells. They are better quality than the Hoppes or any of the blister packs they sell in the big box stores and most LGS’s.

NEVER use Stainless Steel brushes! Those WILL damage your gun!
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:56 AM
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I like hearing how Brass/Bronze brushes are softer and won't hurt steel.
Makes me wonder how water can wear down rock when water is softer than rock.
I tried an experiment with my CZ 527 in 204 Ruger. This gun has over 2000 rounds and has never seen a brush. All I have used is foaming bore cleaners, and the Otis pull thru with patches only. This barrel still shoots great and comes spotlessly clean with the foam bore cleaner.
This experiment has brought me to the conclusion that all my barrels will no longer be seeing a brush. That is until I find one that the foam will not clean. Also I only shoot jacketed bullets, so I never have to get the lead out.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:10 AM
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I have always used Brass and the kits the Army issued with 1903-A3 , M-1 , M-14 and M-60 , all had brass brushes .
I think you would have to do an awful lot of cleaning to put much or any wear on a modern rifle barrel .
The brush isn't moving that fast ...in fact it moves very slow and it's lubricated with a bore cleaner of some sort ... brass is much softer than modern barrel steel . I honestly believe you would need a power drill to do any damage ... As long as you are cleaning with a made for cleaning rifles brass brush and you just use elbow grease / arm power ( No Drills) you aren't going to damage your barrel .
Just watch cleaning from the muzzel ... the cleaning rod can rub against the rifling and wear it ... use a bore guide at the muzzel ... it's the rod doing the damage not the brush .
Gary
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:16 AM
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FWIW, the nylon chamber brushes for the AR pattern barrel extension outlast the brass/bronze ones significantly and do as good a job. Worth the slight extra cost.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:47 PM
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Only use nylon brushes on revolver cylinders and chambers that are made out of aluminum or titanium. Any kind of metallic brush will scratch up the surfaces. I have a couple of Smiths in .22 LR with aluminum cylinders and only use nylon brushes soaked with Hoppe’s #9 on them. Nhlon does not clean as well, but I have no choice.
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Old 06-26-2022, 08:53 PM
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You are worrying too much about barrel cleanliness.
They do not have to be perfect.
Lead fouling in cylinder/chamber throats is a little more important to clean out but that does not have to be perfect either.
More barrels are damaged by over and improper cleaning than from being shot too much.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chief38 View Post
I

NEVER use Stainless Steel brushes! Those WILL damage your gun!
SHOW US EVIDENCE OF THIS AND NOT JUST WHAT YOU THINK, OR WHAT YOU HAVE READ SOMEWHERE!!!! I have pistol barrels that have had, literally, thousands of passes with stainless steel brushes over years with no apparent damage!!!!
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:17 PM
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I shoot mostly lead bullets and have found the nylon brushes are worthless. I use brass. I can see the lead coming out in strips depending on the bullets I'm using.

I use MPro7 as a solvent. It works better for me that Hoppies and doesn't have a smell that makes my partner go crazy. She's crazy enough.

I don't clean my barrel every trip to the range and sometimes I fire over 500 rounds per session. I'll clean the action and around the chamber on my autos. My revolver cylinders get a complete cleaning with brass brush on a portable drill and run for 20 seconds per cylinder. This is to make sure my reloads won't stick in the chambers.
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Old 06-27-2022, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
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SHOW US EVIDENCE OF THIS AND NOT JUST WHAT YOU THINK, OR WHAT YOU HAVE READ SOMEWHERE!!!! I have pistol barrels that have had, literally, thousands of passes with stainless steel brushes over years with no apparent damage!!!!
Since I have chosen never to use stainless steel bore/chamber brushes I am not able to "show" you actual damage done to my personal guns - because it never occurred. Harder materials cut softer materials. Aluminum cuts wood, steel cuts aluminum, tool steel cuts regular steel, carbide cuts tool steel. If you use stainless on regular steel and the stainless is harder than regular steel I personally would not use it. Just seems like common sense to me. If you choose to use a harder material to clean softer barrels and chambers that's your choice and I won't try to change that - but personally I wouldn't do that nor would I ever recommend it to others.

In answer to your question about reading it - yes I have read that many times. Not that I believe everything I read - but again I do agree with not using a harder material to clean a softer one. Your guns - your choice.

I am sure you could find some stainless that is actually softer than regular steel however I am not privy to what the makeup of bore brushes actually are and what each manufacturer uses. Because of this I have also chosen to not take a chance. The other thing is straight forward - after shooting and cleaning guns for 55 years I have not come across a barrel, cylinder or chamber that could not be properly cleaned with Bronze. For real stubborn cleaning situations I'll grab the Lewis Lead Remover.

Last edited by chief38; 06-27-2022 at 12:56 AM.
  #34  
Old 06-27-2022, 01:07 AM
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Chief,

You missed the point! The wire in stainless steel brushes is not harder than barrel steel. Yes, they are harder than bronze brushes. (I don't recall ever seeing a brass brush in my over 60 years shooting and gunsmithing) But i have been using them for years to remove leading, mostly in automatics, and have never been able to discern any adverse effect. Using the more aggressive brush to remove leading exposes the barrel to greatly reduced cleaning rod wear with a, probably, net reduction in barrel wear from cleaning operations.

This is just another of many "internet myths" that everyone seems to believe. The stupidest is that "steel woll" will embed in the surface of stainless steel guns promoting rusting. This is utter BS. Steel wool is dead soft iron that is far softer than the gun steel. What does cause the rusting issue is that the surface of the metal is removed by polishing, and this exposes free iron ions on the surface. These are removed during manufacturing by the process of "passivation". It's why new stainless guns have that slightly "cloudy" look to the finish that everyone wants to polish off!

You have done exactly what I said, taking the "if it sounds logical to me then it must be so!" approach. You have admitted to having no empirical data/knowledge about the subject so stop arguing about it!
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Last edited by Alk8944; 06-27-2022 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 06-27-2022, 02:34 AM
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ALK8944,
Not arguing with you! Just stating what makes sense to me! Your guns-your choice of cleaning methods. Do what works for you. Personally I’ve got no problems using bronze & the LLR as that’s what has worked for me.
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Old 06-27-2022, 03:58 AM
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Before this gets completely out of hand we are done here. Say goodnight Gracie!
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