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Old 04-06-2009, 09:14 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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I was wondering, according to the manual when I re-assemble my 6946 (DAO) it says when I slide the slide back onto the frame to depress the ejector and firing pin safety back into their groves. THe ejector is up and needs to be pushed down but the firing pin safety lever is already in the down position. Is this normal? I notice that there is a rattle when the gun is fully assembled and that rattle is the firing pin safety lever. When unassembled, if I pull the trigger I see the that the firing pin safety lever pops up and goes back down when the trigger is released.

I have a 3913 (da/sa) and the firning pin safety lever needs to be pushed down when you slide the slide on. So I am wondering - does my 6946 have an issue? THANK YOU for any help!

Larry
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:14 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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I was wondering, according to the manual when I re-assemble my 6946 (DAO) it says when I slide the slide back onto the frame to depress the ejector and firing pin safety back into their groves. THe ejector is up and needs to be pushed down but the firing pin safety lever is already in the down position. Is this normal? I notice that there is a rattle when the gun is fully assembled and that rattle is the firing pin safety lever. When unassembled, if I pull the trigger I see the that the firing pin safety lever pops up and goes back down when the trigger is released.

I have a 3913 (da/sa) and the firning pin safety lever needs to be pushed down when you slide the slide on. So I am wondering - does my 6946 have an issue? THANK YOU for any help!

Larry
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:37 PM
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is the little spring underneath the slot of the lever as it is with the spring loaded ejector?

missing or broken?????????
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Old 04-07-2009, 09:53 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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I cannot see a spring, but it is hard to see under it. When the slide is off and I pull the trigger the lever pops up. I have not shot this gun yet, but have cycled through a magazine without any issues. What would happen if the spring is missing? Would the gun still function? THANKS for any guidance!
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:43 AM
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here are the holes where the spring rides. you should be able to see if the spring is missing



with the spring missing, the parts will needlessly flop around under recoil and there may be a slight felt difference in trigger pull when the slack is taken up and plunger spring resistance is felt.



and here are the levers looking up

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Old 04-08-2009, 04:33 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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THanks for the info! I can't view the photos though
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Old 04-08-2009, 06:26 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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THANKS for the photos! THere are only 2 levers on my 6946. According to the manual, I think there is only supposed to be 2 since it is DAO> BUT, I cannot see a spring under the firing pin safety lever. There appears to be a spring on under the other lever. Is this something that a normal person can replace? THANKS again for your help!
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:36 PM
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At the factory, we called those "Jesus" springs. Cause whenever one of them flew off (and it happened frequently) - someone always said "Oh Jesus".

chris
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Old 04-08-2009, 07:49 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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I bet! Sorry for all the questions but do you think this gun is safe to shoot? I want to try it out. I have yet to fire it. It cycles by hand ok, but I know that is not a good indicator.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:04 PM
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I certainly would not recommend firing it, but I am no expert and other that parts flopping around (if its actually missing the spring) it may cause undue wear from the parts slapping with no spring tension to keep them still.

difficulty in the area of
*removing the grip
*sliding the hammer pin/slide plate out just enough to remove the two levers,
*inspect for damage,
*replace the spring,
*reinstall the two levers,
*push back the hammer pin,
*replace the grip

this is all dependant if the spring is missing?

can you snap some photos and install?
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:04 PM
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I will try to take some pics in a bit and post them.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:12 PM
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M6946 DAO, right?

Only one lever on the right side (firing pin safety lever)?

S&W has something referred to as the "Spring Rule" when it comes to the metal-framed DAO guns.

The Left Side of frame:
The left side has the ejector lever and it must always have a spring under it in the spring hole. (Excellent pics CQB )

The Right Side of the frame:
If the right side of the frame has space for 2 levers, a spring must be used. If the frame has space for 1 lever only, a spring must not be used.

Now, some trivia ...

At one time S&W was machining their DAO frames differently than their TDA (DA/SA) frames in the respect that they were making the lever slot on the right side of the hammer only wide enough for the required firing pin safety lever. The TDA frames were machined with the lever slot wide enough to accept the firing pin safety lever and the sear release lever.

Apparently, one day someone had the simple idea that they could save doing 2 different machining steps for the DAO/TDA frames by simply making the lever slot the same dimension in both frames ... meaning wide enough to accept 2 levers ... and using a 'spacer' lever in the DAO frame instead of the standard sear release lever. The spacer lever lacks the foot and has a couple of holes machined in it to make it even more readily identifiable.

This linked thumbnail can be clicked/enlarged a couple of times (to 80% & then 100%, I think) for better clarity. I just took it for this thread since the camera and manual were both at my desk. Hope it contributes some info which might be helpful to the owner of the 6946. Sorry for the older camera.



I'm sure if you call S&W and ask them they will be happy to explain things to you in regard to your gun. Might need to talk to one of the CS guys that used to work production or repair a number of years ago, though.

S&W revolverman, thanks for the chuckle about the Jesus springs. Made me remember the first time I called back to order some parts and didn't have the parts list at hand. I asked for some Jesus springs and ended up hearing a chuckle.
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Old 04-09-2009, 03:41 PM
iafirebuff iafirebuff is offline
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THAT'S IT! I just looked and ther is only room for 1 lever. I also looked in the parts list in my manual that came with it and it shows just the one with a note that 1st rev has a spacer. The date on the manual is the mid 90's and the date that someone has written on the end of the box is 1992, so I assume I have the older one. THANK YOU again for all that have replied! Your information is much appreciated!
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Old 04-09-2009, 04:31 PM
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You're welcome.

S&W would've answered it for you just as quickly, though.
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Old 04-09-2009, 05:58 PM
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Now I can't wait to go shoot her! THANKS again!
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Old 04-10-2009, 10:04 AM
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I guess that too is one of the differences from an older DAO as opposed to a newer DAO like my CS9D which has both levers and the Jesus Spring.

Guess that has something to do with the short trigger pull as so many like on the older DAOs.

Good deal you got it working.

Thanks to FASTBOLT! as see you are retired now?
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Old 04-11-2009, 03:11 PM
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Hey CQB,

Yep, retired this year. I heartily recommend it as soon as you can swing it.

The older DAO guns had longer slides which could better cover the DAO hammers as they were staged (S&W calls it 'located') further to the rear when the slide was cycled. This permitted a pretty short & smooth DAO trigger stroke.

The newer 'conversion' DAO parts are meant to work in guns with 'shorter' TDA slides, which means the slides won't cover the staged hammers as much as with the older DAO guns. The hammers have to be staged rearward to a lesser amount in order to work in the regular TDA guns/slides. This means a longer DAO trigger stroke is required in order to fire the newer DAO 'conversion' guns.

TDA triggers are different than DAO triggers, too.

There are some other issues which can be involved, as well, such as using the proper combination of parts in whatever model pistol is being considered.

For example,a machined hammer must be installed with a machined sear.

A MIM hammer must be installed with a MIM sear.

Improper combination can result in improper contact between the parts.

Then, in DAO guns the disconnector must be installed before the drawbar is connected to the trigger.

Email me again if you ever have questions about that sweet little CS9 of yours.

Did I mention that retirement is great?

Later,
fb
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Old 10-04-2020, 05:55 PM
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ACEd, I got your PM, although my PM box is almost full.

Glad this older thread topic shed some light on your DAO/lever question.

I don't have any of the DAO spacer levers, which are basically patterned on a TDA gun's sear release lever, but without the "foot" (needed to engage sear nose for decocking in TDA guns), and with a extra couple holes in the upper body of the lever.

This is a handy pic I found on one of the vendors who still occasionally gets new S&W 3rd gen parts to sell:
Smith & Wesson Firing Pin Retainer Spacer S&W 3953TSW 4043TSW 4046TSW

Checking the frame cut on the right side of the hammer is simple enough. If there's room for 2 levers in a DAO gun's frame to the right of the hammer, then you need a spacer lever alongside the firing pin safety lever, and a spring underneath them.

This is my 4013TSW showing the extra width of the lever cut made to contain 2 levers on the right side.

Both levers -


Only 1 lever -


No, there isn't any Jesus spring under the right lever(s), because I removed it for the purpose of taking those pics, but for normal assembly and functioning of the TDA gun (and a DAO gun with space for 2 levers), it's required.

Pretty apparent, if you know what to look for.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iafirebuff View Post
When unassembled, if I pull the trigger I see the that the firing pin safety lever pops up and goes back down when the trigger is released.

Larry

Larry,

Please don't cycle the action of your pistol when it is disassembled and under spring pressure. Doing so can damage the frame.
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Last edited by armorer951; 10-05-2020 at 09:08 AM.
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