Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > S&W-Smithing
Forum Register Expert Commentary Members List


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Asuncion, Paraguay
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Default Cylinder chamfer?

Hello,

What are the commonly used specs for cylinder chamfering? It seems the "normal" angle is 45, how deep can you cut to aid reloading? Does the extractor star gets cut the same amount (even chamfering all around)?

I don't see this modification mentioned very often, how useful is it for speed reloads? Does it have any downsides?

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-06-2009, 07:14 PM
magnum12pm's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

I don't know the specs, but it does make a difference in ease of reloading quickly.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-06-2009, 08:31 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Liked 214 Times in 113 Posts
Default

There are no "specs" since everyone does it their own way.
Some "specs" if you will:

The ejector IS NOT chamfered.
This really isn't possible without possibly damaging the ratchet area. Chamfering the ejector has no effect on faster reloads, since the only area that really needs to be beveled is the outer arc of the chamber mouth.
Take the ejector OUT before chamfering.

Chamfer only enough to break the sharp edge.
Going deeper really does little good, and may ruin the cylinder and allow swelled or even burst cartridges if enough support is cut away.

Advantages are a slightly faster reload with speed loaders.
Disadvantages are extraction problems or burst cases if too much is done.

Note that too many go too deep the first couple of times they do it. More is not better.
Again, all that's needed is to just break the sharp chamber mouths.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Nightowl's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 2,901
Likes: 253
Liked 447 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Defariswheel: I had my first one done by a gunsmith who did not bevel the extractor. Worked good. I had to have that cylinder replaced, and the factory beveled the extractor as well and significantly cut the edges. Every gun I have from the factory with beveled chambers has beveled the extractor as well as the cylinder chamber openings. That includes two PC 627's.

I vote for your method. I think less is better when opening the chamber mouths. Just breaking the edge would be enough.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-06-2009, 10:56 PM
shovelwrench's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Pennsylvania 17963
Posts: 1,077
Likes: 40
Liked 49 Times in 32 Posts
Default

Seems to me you can cut pretty far before your to far past the "web" of the cartridge, and still be safe. I would also think wadcutters would be more suited to a larger chamfer, where ball or JHP, would work fine with minimal chamfer.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-06-2009, 11:07 PM
Nightowl's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 2,901
Likes: 253
Liked 447 Times in 305 Posts
Default

Really all that is needed is to break the sharp edge of the chamber. I have used wadcutters in speedloaders a lot of years in PPC in a stock 27 and had no trouble. However, if you want maximum speed like Jerry M can do by just throwing them toward the chamber, a little more might be called for. I just would prefer positive extraction to speed of loading. It is pretty easy to get an empty under the extractor, and this takes a little time to clear.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-07-2009, 11:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Asuncion, Paraguay
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 9 Times in 6 Posts
Default

Thanks for the advice

The brass rim protrudes about .0028"+ in 357 mag/38 spl, so it seems that if the extractor is not touched (or truly "just so", about .002"-.004") and only the outer arc is given a bit more depth it would be OK.

If you had to give a number, how much would be ideal for the outer arc? .004", .008" or .012"

Brass support is not an issue with these numbers, because the brass itself has an unsupported ring of reduced diameter (I guess for some manufacturing reason or to avoid stress concentration) that extends about .025" above the ring.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-07-2009, 12:35 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Aiken, SC
Posts: 1,154
Likes: 12
Liked 112 Times in 49 Posts
Default

With all due respect to dfw (who has forgotten more about revolvers than I know), it is possible to chamfer more extensively (at 45) if you are using auto pistol cartridges (.45ACP, 9x19, .40S&W). They are designed to work with less chamber support than revolver cartridges. This is especially true with a low pressure cartridge like the .45 ACP. I have seen chamfers so big the chambers looked like little funnels, some 0.030" or more. And it's very fast.


Buck
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-07-2009, 09:39 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 936
Likes: 0
Liked 214 Times in 113 Posts
Default

Yep, you can a little farther with auto pistol cartridges, but I was assuming we were dealing with a standard revolver cartridge and I didn't want to "muddy the water".
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-07-2009, 10:56 PM
500 Magnum Nut's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 0
Liked 47 Times in 24 Posts
Default

If you use the correct sized 45 chamfer tool, you can chamfer the complete chamber, extractor side and all. I normally go up to .03 deep, as you want to break the edge and make it look nice. It does indeed help in speed reloads.
If you have a good steady hand, use a dremel with a 45 grinding wheel, just be careful not to hit the ratchets.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-07-2009, 11:48 PM
FHBrumb's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Menasha, WI U.S.A.
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

If you already have a full moon clip mod to your 357, can you still do this? Or are you already into the cylinder too much?
__________________
NRA Life Member
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-08-2009, 05:39 AM
500 Magnum Nut's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Connecticut, USA
Posts: 1,543
Likes: 0
Liked 47 Times in 24 Posts
Default

It will be fine to do. Just keep it on the light side, around .020 deep.
__________________
NRA Benefactor Member
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-02-2010, 09:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hello to all,
I looked a bit more closely at my S&W model 65-5 and it seems the chamber is ever so slightly beveled or chamfered. I have no idea how much but it's not a lot. (maybe .020 as "500 Magnum Nut" says) The other end of the chamber, the barrel end, is not at all chamfered. The extractor seems to have the same small amount removed. It's hard to believe this small amount would help but I'm a believer in the littlest things can make a difference. Also noticed a cartridge will not fit in reverse that is to say from the barrel end of chamber. I can see inside the chamber where it is milled out for the .357 or 38 length shell ? Makes sense to me.
No real questions here, more just my observations.
DTz
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Beaumont, Texas 77707
Posts: 472
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Default Cylinder chamfer?

Please allow the dumb one (me) to ask:
What is the best means to chamfer a 686 cylinder? By that, I mean is there a special tool Brownell's sells for it, or does everyone get out the mighty Dremel and eyeball it?
Thanks for allowing me to intrude on the OP's question
Arman4461

Last edited by Arman4461; 07-03-2010 at 10:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:08 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 5,511
Likes: 621
Liked 1,251 Times in 655 Posts
Default

Quote:
is there a special tool Brownell's sells for it, or does everyone get out the mighty Dremel and eyeball it?
Lose the dremel!
Little metal is actually removed in a good cylinder chamfer job on a 686, and you need the proper tools.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-03-2010, 11:26 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 222
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arman4461 View Post
Please allow the dumb one (me) to ask:
What is the best means to chamfer a 686 cylinder? By that, I mean is there a special tool Brownell's sells for it, or does everyone get out the mighty Dremel and eyeball it?
Thanks for allowing me to intrude on the OP's question
Arman4461
I had an old time PPC shooter tell me he used a neck chamfer and deburring tool reloaders use to chamfer the cylinders on his revolvers.
I don't know that it works well, but he said it did.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:49 PM
Nightowl's Avatar
SWCA Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Warrensburg, MO USA
Posts: 2,901
Likes: 253
Liked 447 Times in 305 Posts
Default

I recently used the Brownell's chamfering tool on several Model 686's, just breaking the edge at about 45 degrees all round, including the extractor. They still extract correctly, and the slight break seems to help in reloading. Personally, I do not chamfer my own revolvers unless I am interested in speed reloads. The ones I use for speed reloading all happen to be done at the factory and I did not need to do it. If I had, I would have done less than they did, and they should know how much can be done.
__________________
Richard Gillespie
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:09 PM
magnum12pm's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightowl View Post
I recently used the Brownell's chamfering tool on several Model 686's, just breaking the edge at about 45 degrees all round, including the extractor. They still extract correctly, and the slight break seems to help in reloading. Personally, I do not chamfer my own revolvers unless I am interested in speed reloads. The ones I use for speed reloading all happen to be done at the factory and I did not need to do it. If I had, I would have done less than they did, and they should know how much can be done.

This is one improvement I prefer to let the factory handle, although I'm sure many on this forum have the skill. I probably have the skill but lack the nerve.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 07-12-2010, 07:56 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: S.E. Wi.
Posts: 2,343
Likes: 29
Liked 311 Times in 225 Posts
Default

I use Brownell's piloted cutter. On non-moonclipped guns I chamfer the cylinder and not the extractor, just blending the tips of the extractor between the chambers with a file. You need the extractor pretty much intact to insure good ejection and to allow the rims to headspace. Moon clip guns are different as the extractor pushes against the moon clip not the case rim.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 07-12-2010, 08:02 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Mebane, North Carolina
Posts: 80
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 500 Magnum Nut View Post
If you use the correct sized 45 chamfer tool, you can chamfer the complete chamber, extractor side and all. I normally go up to .03 deep, as you want to break the edge and make it look nice. It does indeed help in speed reloads.
If you have a good steady hand, use a dremel with a 45 grinding wheel, just be careful not to hit the ratchets.
500 MN, Do you leave the extractor in the cylinder and cut down with a tool like that sold by Midway? I'm too afraid of cutting the rachet to do that - I haven't found a good way to chamfer the extractor yet.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 07-13-2010, 12:52 AM
HEADKNOCKER's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clarksville Indiana USA
Posts: 2,288
Likes: 24
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Here's a pic of one of Jerry Miculek's revolvers, Notice how the extractor is beveled as well as the cylinder, This is also how Dave Manson did my 940 cylinder while he was reaming it..
Gary/Hk
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
45acp, 627, 686, 940, cartridge, ejector, extractor, gunsmith, model 65, model 686, ppc, sig arms

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
S&W-Smithing Thread, Cylinder chamfer? in Ammunition-Gunsmithing; Hello, What are the commonly used specs for cylinder chamfering? It seems the "normal" angle is 45, how deep can ...
LinkBacks (?)
LinkBack to this Thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-smithing/95311-cylinder-chamfer.html
Posted By For Type Date
RIFLEMAN'S JOURNAL - JULY 2014 This thread Refback 07-24-2014 10:26 PM

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
chamfer cylinder or not? cajts S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 5 02-24-2011 11:41 PM
Extractor chamfer method Stillwater788 S&W-Smithing 5 11-19-2010 02:49 PM
How is a cylinder "black powder" chamfer cut? dbarale S&W-Smithing 15 04-03-2010 09:17 AM
radius/chamfer top strap wheelgun1958 S&W-Smithing 1 07-29-2009 04:13 PM
which angle is best for a cylinder chamfer? RightWinger S&W-Smithing 4 04-29-2009 04:40 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:14 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)