Going to try to attempt to refinish my 28 myself

[nipster]

I have a model 28 project gun that desparately needs a refinishing. I have the tools to do it myself, although I have never taken on the process myself.

Here is my proposed procedure, could you critique it?

1. disassemble and remove all internals, remove crane and cylinder
2. disassemble cylinder / extractor / star / extractor rod
3. put sideplate back on
4. sandblast / bead blast sideplate area and immediate surrounding area
5. remove sideplate, place off to side
6. sandblast / bead blast rest of gun
7. sand gun with 600 grit escalating to 1200 grit paper (including sideplate, while on gun)
8. remove sideplate again
9. place gun and sideplate in boiling de-ionized water bath at 180 degrees for 30 minutes
10. place gun in parkerizing solution (manganeze phosphate) at 180-200 degrees until "it stops bubbling"
11. place in hot water bath to neutralize reaction for 30 minutes+, removing heat at some point after 10 minutes until it comes down to a lukewarm temperature
12. apply oil of some kind, most likely ballistol

Questions:

1. what parkerizing solution do you recommend? I want a darker black to almost blue. I figured of any Smith I could get away with this on, a 28 would be it, since most later 28's were not a polished blue anyway

2. ideas for protecting the barrel? I dont want to parkerize it...

any other tips? I am going to do this boiling on my backyard grill hotplate with an old 3 gallon pot I dont need anymore

[glowe]

One question - after going through all that prep work, why would you want to parkerize it? Near original satin blue finish can be easily obtained with rust bluing and 0000 steel wool.

I would not sandblast any part of a gun. Naval Jelly works great on removing blue finish and rust. If you have a nickel gun, there are options for removing the finish without sandblasting or electrolysis. I would also stop at 400 grit, since anything finer will have a negative effect on finishing. The finish needs something to grab onto and a too fine grit might result in a non-uniform finish. I use rubber stoppers to seal the barrel when refinishing, but heat the barrel before firmly placing the stoppers or they will pop out in the heating solution.

Surface cleaning is critical to a good finish, so boil the parts in TSP and only handle the parts with disposable latex gloves after cleaning. Also, I would consider rust bluing, which is a process that can be done without the harsh chemicals required in hot bluing.

David Chicoine has a great piece on refinishing guns (modern or antique) in his book - Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West.

[chief38]

Just my opinion of course, but if I were going to refinish my M28 I would either do a "M27 bright blue finish" or at least the original satin M28 finish. Parkerizing a sought after M28 might be a bit sacrilegious; just saying...... but hey, its your gun. Let us know what you decide to do and how it came out.

Chief38

[2152hq]

If your intent is to bring the finish up to a 1200 grit polish (which is a high polish hand finish),,don't bother bead blasting it first.
Definetly don't sand blast it.
(But a high polish isn't necessary for a Parkerized finish anyway.)

The top and bottom edges of the frame on the 28 is a bead blast finish from the factory. You'll have to polish that off on your way to the 1200 grit finish. Why add that to the rest of the gun and then polish it off..

Sand blasting can alter the shape of parts and take down the edges thenselves if you're not carefull.

Stay with a glass bead finish if you intend to Parkerize it. That is what is needed under that type of finish,,not a high gloss polish.

A glass bead finish is also a great base for a rust blue job too. Even a hot blue finish over a glass beaded surface is nice and can look alot like a rust blue finish if the particle size and application pressure is done right.

Good luck with your project.
No need to plug the bores or chambers when hot bluing or rust bluing.
They need to be protected from the Parkerizing solution however.

Take your time. Prep and keeping everything clean during the process is key.

[nipster]

I am open to blueing it as well, are there any good articles or guidance out there for that? And where can you get materials? The reason I was going to parkerize it was because it was something I thought I could do myself and get decent results.

[Titegroups]

The amount you devalue your gun will be about equal to the cost of having someone who knows what they're doing with the proper tools take care of it. What do you think a parkerized model 28 will sell for, $400 maybe. I wouldn't buy it. Just the truth, but its your gun.

[nipster]

Originally Posted by Titegroups

The amount you devalue your gun will be about equal to the cost of having someone who knows what they're doing with the proper tools take care of it. What do you think a parkerized model 28 will sell for, $400 maybe. I wouldn't buy it. Just the truth, but its your gun.

Honestly, I have very little in the gun and am not looking to spend a lot. When I got the gun, it was literally so full of gunk that it would not fire, after breaking it down and cleaning it, it is functional, but it's ugly. I have posted pics of it. Here are a few more. My aim is really not to sell it, but use it as a shooter. In which case parkerizing it would be the cheapest way to get from point A to point B and not deteriorate any further. It's not going to win any beauty contests either way. I guess I could try bluing. Has anyone here done it?

[TAROMAN]

I'll be the contrarian here.
You're not going to devalue that by a parkerizing job.
Would look great, IMHO.
Many years ago, I parked an M1 for a friend. Job was simple and turned out great.
Disassemble, DEGREASE then bead blast.
Degrease again, and park it.
Oil copiously thereafter. I had good luck with a product called Corrosion X as a post-oil.

[Gunhacker]

That all looks like surface rust, have you tried anything to remove it yet? I bought an model 1905 M&P made in 1932 that looked much like that.

I marinated it in Corrosion X for a few days to soften the rust and then used the to old "scrape it off with the edge of a real copper penny" trick that will leave the underly blue intact. It came out well enough where it would have be more of a hassle for me to try and refinish it than use it as-is in shooter condition.

There are two methods to get a good looking bluing job without going the hot blue route. The first has been mentioned, rust bluing, but it's not easy, and it is time consuming.

The other is to use Oxpho-Blue sold by Brownell's. It's a cold bluing chemical that has a reputation of being just about as durable as hot blue and easier than rust blue.

On a Ruger Blackhawk that I changed the aluminum grip frame to a steel one. I bought the steel grip frame "in-the-white" and after fitting it to the gun, I tried rust bluing... all I managed to do is create a dull mess.

I sanded away the rust blue and the minor surface etching that took place, and used the Oxpho-Blue. That was almost a year ago and it is still going strong.

Pics below are the M&P after my clean up... wish I had thought to take before pics. And the grip frame after it was blued with the Oxpho.

[glowe]

Since David's book is getting quite pricey, you might opt for using Midway USA's video instructions on Youtube for the rust bluing process. The only changes I would make from Larry's process is to boil the prepared parts in a TSP solution instead of soapy water for better cleaning. Let the metal rust for 4 hours, boil in distilled water (you can reuse the water) and card with 0000 steel wool instead of a wire wheel. When finished, dissolve caustic drain cleaner in water for the last boil. Since rusting is a low pH process, caustic will leave the finished metal with a high pH surface and kill the rusting process. Then apply oil or boiled linseed oil when dry. I should probably plan on 10 cycles and then check the metal after carding by wetting the surface to see if the finish is dark enough. Do not prepare the metal by going any finer than 400 grit sandpaper. The rusting and carding process will remove any lines in the metal and will ultimately provide you with the satin finish you should strive for with this model. The metal will look very mottled with the first few cycles, but will even out over the course of the process.

Gunsmith - How To Slow Rust Blue Gun Metal - YouTube

The pictures below are of a 32-20 I recently refinished. It was rusted to the point of pitting and I did not want to remove all pitting, since it would have removed all the stampings and logo. Even so, I still like the results of this old shooter better than when I started. Oh, BTW I added some square butt grips to help with accuracy, but still shoot it with the original round butt grips from time to time.

[Ken NC]

Have you looked into Pilkington's rust blue? I haven't tried it myself but it seems to get great reviews: Classic American Rust Blue 4oz Liquid

[gwpercle]

First follow Gunhackers advice about soaking . I have used kerosene for soaking with great results ( if you can't find Corrosion-X ) and 1 or 2 weeks soaking is not too long. Then find a real copper penny , thats important , and use the edge to gently scrape away the rust. use some oil , kerosene or corrosion-x while doing this. When the rust has been all removed from that spot the oil will not turn a muddy brown color any longer. Rub off the rust nothing else. When all the rust spots have been removed . Very lightly polish any rough area with 0000 steel wool being careful not to remove any existing blue. Degrease and cold blue with the Oxpho-Blue. Go over the lighter areas as many times as it takes to even out the color. I had to go over mine 4 different times to get a nice dark overall color. Properly preping and polishing a complete gun for blueing is not easy. Without some hands on instruction you could mess up the metal big time. If you have ever seen a botched polish job on a reblue it looks like 5 miles of bad road. Please dont parkerize it thats a fine gun that deserves better.
From your photos the finish does not look that bad. The S&W top break I redid looked 10 times worse . Try to save whats there or spend a few dollars on a nice reblue. But try the rust removal and cold blue first you might be surprised by the results........ gary
Be sure and heat the parts when bluing , use a hair dryer, it helps.

[Pig Hunter]

First good luck whatever you decide to do. The Brownell cold blue is way forgiveing, rub it in with steel wool or paper towels. If you don't like it polish it off. Rust blue isn't hard if you remember the surface must be surgically clean. If you use steel wool to card get some from a wood working shop. Normal steel wool has oil on it . As was mentioned earlier get distilled water . Hang the parts suspended, and you only need to get to around 200 deg F , don't need a rolling boil. None of it is rocket science, just follow the instuctions and do it when you can take your time.

[nipster]

Ok, let me research this a little more, like I said, I am open to try anything.

[2152hq]

Slow rust blue I use Laurel Mountain Forge (LMF) solution.
It does need the surgicly clean surface that the other soln's do. But don't use that as an excuse for poor prep. 4 or 5 coats will give you all the depth and coverage you need. Use over a 320grit polish. No need to go any farther though with the right techniques you can do a high gloss blue with it. That's for a more advanced technique.
When done simply spray down with most any household cleaner like 409 stuff. They're all PH base and will kill the slightly acidic PH of the ferric chloride LMF solution.

Quick rust (Hot rust) bluing, I've settled on Mark Lee solution. They sell two, one for browning and one for bluing. I use the bluing formula of course though either will work I'd guess.
Brownells sells both of these as well as the LMF.

Avoid the older mixes with mercury bi-chloride componds in them. I can attest to the fact that they work great but you don't want the long term problems that I can also attest to.

Heat the parts in the boiling water, remove and apply the solution evenly and it'll rust right then and there. Return to the water for a few minutes to turn it blue,,remove and card,,return to the water to reheat the metal,,remove and reapply another coat of soln,,,and on and on.
It's a continuous process,,start with parts in the white and end with the blued parts in one session. But it's hot work and can have pitfalls of it's own if not done right.
I use a propane torch for the heating the metal process instead of putting them in the tank,,but either way works.

Slow rust is easier but slower. Most feel slow rust gives a tougher finish, but having done both I still don't really have an opinion either way.

If you were to rust blue (either method),,an easy prep for a gun like yours would be a simple wire wheel treatment.

Parts are disassembled and oiled. Nothing special,,anything from wd-40 to motor oil. Just a light coating on the parts.
Then lightly against a wire wheel to burnish them. It will clean up any rust,,blend in any scratches and directional polish marks and leave the surface with a dull shine ready for rust blue. We used to do parts up like that for color case hardening.
The wire wheel treatment will also show with glaring display any obvious pits, scrapes, gouges or other marks that spoil the surface. You can then go and touch those areas up and then re-wirewheel the parts to your satisfaction. Just keep oil on the surface to avoid the wire from digging in and it'll burnish nicely.
It won't damage corners nor markings,

Some pics of projects rust blued, hot blued and grayed (coin finished).
Some repair jobs using rust blue.
Colt Police Positive 38
This is Hot Rust blued w/Mark Lee soln




Ruger BlackHawk 44Mag from 1956(?)
This one is Hot Blued over a high gloss hand polish



S&W 38-44 Outdoorsman engraving closeup. Another hot rust blue finish using Mark Lee soln IIRC.
Not much matting or etching if you control it.


Ithaca 'Lefever' Nitro Special upgrade done in a coin or grey finish


Before/After..Repair of aftermarket scope mount holes on an early Win Model 61. Plugged and polished, then bluing repaired w/ rust blue to match original finish. Proof marks recut.



Single mount hole in the top of the same Win 61 receiver.

[nipster]

^ I found a couple videos on youtube which show it, and they used the Laurel Mountain Forge, what is the color like, it looked more black than blue to me, but that could just be the video.

[2152hq]

Alot will depend on the degree of polish and also what steel is being blued.
Even some of the S&W magnum cylinders and bbls turn a reddish color when (factory) hot blued, the frames staying blue. Different steel and heat treat.

The older softer steels w/o all the modern nickel, chrome, moly whatever added ingredients 'blue' better than the modern stuff. They hot blue better too and don't turn purple w/age.

The Brits call the rust blue process 'blacking',,I guess for a reason.

Generally the finer the polish, the more blue the color will appear. A coarse, file struck bbl or one that's given a quick once over with 100grit will be darker towards black than a better polished bbl.

The LMF soln will etch if not watched carefully and that will add to the matted finish. It can work (rust) in as little as a couple of hours in the right temp and humidity.
85F and 85% humidity and up and you can do 4 coats in a day if you want to. I prefer to slow it down. You don't need a coat of rust on the metal that appears it just came from the sea bed to be a good rust blue coating.
One that just barely appears reddish in color with the steel or previous coating off blue color still showing will do fine in building a new coating. Plus it won't etch the steel as will one of the heavy coatings that screams 'this thing is really rusted!'

The Mark Lee 'quick rust' soln gives a blue color with just about every application. Again polish and steel can make a difference.

The old solutions with merc in them were great for the blue color, but again I'd advise to stay clear of them.
One of the old Arsenal mixes for slow rust blue was iron (filings) dissolved in nitric acid or hydrochloric acid. Fumes like hell,,do it outside! But it works nice and doesn't have anything else in it. Nice blue color most of the time.
Probably just ending up with Ferric Chloride in the latter instance,,which is the main ingredient in LMF.

Even coating,,card them thoughly, build the blued finish slowly with each one.
It's never been a quick finish and that's why it died as a factory finish except as needed to do soldered together SxS barrels.

[jrm53]

Like the poster above says if your going to that much trouble and boiling it you could go to bing or google and get the formula to mix your own hot bluing solution, or get from Brownells I have done revolvers in a porcelian roaster on a hot plate like yours. Just put your well water or distilled water in and bluing salts in bring it up to hot, if it wont boil add more salts that will bring the temp up if you have a bluing thermomoter it should be from about 280 to 290 to do a good job and afterward boil for a good while in water to keep the salts from leaching out of the barrel threads and dip in oil while its still hot. You need rubber gloves because this stuff is like lye and it will eat stuff up. I guess I had better add that if you go this way this stuff is hazordous waste I poured some out several years ago and the grass never grew there for several years I got some on a new pair of boots and it ate holes in the leather what I used was Heat Bath Corp. salts that we used where I worked and we blackend tools but on a highly polished bull barrel for a 25-2 you could not tell the difference from S&W bright blue. Jeff