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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 02-22-2011, 12:20 PM
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Default Silhouette shooting questions.

I would like to ask some questions to those with experience in silhouette shooting.

Within 2 years I hope that our club is expanded with a 100 meters range. I have the plan to introduce handgun silhouette shooting on our club.
That is something that is not shot very much here in Holland, Europe and not at all near me.

For myself I am already looking into the right gun. It will be a S&W revolver. Since these revolvers are not offered in great numbers here I should take my opportunity when it comes.
About the type and barrel length I am not sure about. Because of the different distances I think a four position front sight is a must. (I would like to shoot scopeless)

I know for years that there are 8 3/8 versions of the 14, 17, the 686 and (6)29. Recently I saw a 29 (Internet, not for sale) with 10 5/8 and that was new for me.
The four position front sight was only offered (I think?) on the 29 and 686. That leaves me the choice of the 686 6"and 8 3/8" and (6)29 6" 8 3/8"and 10 5/8"

The first question then is, does one caliber has a advantage above the other?

The longer the barrel, the better the sight radius. But I think the difference between 4" and 6" will have more effect as the difference between 8 3/8 and 10 5/8. A longer barrel will have a higher velocity, also important I think.

So my second question: Are there successful silhouette shooters with 6" barrels or should I simply go for a 8 3/8? Or even better a 29 with 10 5/8?

Personally I am a fan of the L-frame (little hands, N frame is big) so a 686 8 3/8 is what I am thinking of. But I am open for all S&W revolvers based on your advices!

One other question about the four position. Is there much difference in the adjusted hight for the three shooting distances? I ask that because I do shoot target matches at 11, 27 and 55 yards with my .22 pistol. I do not have to adjust in hight as my fellow shooters do not too.
If it does not matter that much a normal revolver would be a good start? I have a standard a 6" 617 and 686.

All advice and thoughts welcome.

Thanks in advance,
Jeroen

P.s. Sorry for the length of my posting.
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:25 PM
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At 100 meters range, that would be perfect of a small bore (rimfire) silhouette range. Your 6" 617 would be fine for that.

I've never seen a big bore setup on less than 200 meters, so I can't comment on your situation.


H. Range Layout / Target Set-Up
1. A silhouette range consists of a firing line and four different target lines,
one for each of the four animals (chicken, pig, turkey, ram). Distances from
the firing point to each bank of targets shall be:
Big Bore Small Bore, Field Pistol Air Pistol
Chickens 50 M / Yd. 25 M / Yd. 10 Yd.
Pigs 100 M / Yd. 50 M / Yd. 12.5 Yd.
Turkeys 150 M / Yd. 75 M / Yd. 15 Yd.
Rams 200 M / Yd. 100 M / Yd. 18 Yd.
Tolerance +/- 5 M / Yd. +/- 2 M / Yd. +/- 6 Inches

http://www.ihmsa.org/2009%20rulebook%20final.pdf
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Old 02-22-2011, 02:51 PM
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I will try to answer a few of your questions. If you are using IHMSA rules, you will compete in 4 different classes - Unlimited (usually bolt action XP-100s or long barrel Contenders), Production (usually Contenders or other single shots), Standing (usually the same gun as used in Production), and Revolver. So your S&W will probably only be used in Revolver. The 357 Mag is not adequate to reliably knock down the 55 lb ram targets at 200 Meters. A 357 Maximum or 44 Mag is the preferred caliber. You will definitely have to make sight changes for the different targets. There is no way a 44 mag is going to shoot flat from 50 to 200 meters. I have never used the 4 position front sight but just took clicks in the rear sight.
I'm not sure about the current rules as I haven't shot for 15 years, but my revolver choice would be a Freedom Arms. A M29 with endurance package would be good as well as a Ruger SBH. I would definitely go with a barrel longer than 6". You need the longer sight radius for the 200 meter targets and to keep the blast away from the front of your leg when in the Creedmore position.
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Old 02-22-2011, 07:35 PM
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I haven't shot silhouette in years, but, when I used my 629, I had a 100 yard zero, and just held over for the longer shots.

In the Creedmore position, I had a blast shield made to strap to my leg because of the blast from the cylinder gap. (OUCH)
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:53 AM
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Default M29 w/adjustable front sight

I was lucky to find a 6-1/2" and 10-5/8" barrel M29 with the adjustable front sight. I am not impressed with the front sight because it doesnt hold zero from recoil. 10-5/8" barrel is VERY muzzle heavy shooting with 2 hands.

I have an 8-3/8" barrel 629 that is much simpler to shoot, for example: 50 yard zero, +2 clicks 100 yds, +3 clicks 150 yards, and +5 clicks for 200 yards.

The adjustable front sights don't have 'clicks' on the set screws so adjustments can be a challenge.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:03 AM
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Thanks all of you for your inputt !
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:15 AM
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I used to shoot NRA Hunter's Pistol Silhouette. It was developed for a 100meter range.
I used a .357 Ruger Blackhawk to start. It worked fine. Later, I used a scoped Contender in .357 Maximum with .357 reloads.

If I was to start up again I'd either use the Contender or my M657 .41 Magnum with the eight and three eighths inch barrel.
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Old 10-31-2018, 12:24 PM
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The 357 maximum was designed for the silhouette game. It is my favorite caliber. Ruger, T/C, Dan Wesson with long barrels.


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OMG. I just posted in a 7 year old thread.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:52 PM
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I was quite involved in met sil shooting years ago. I shot a Thompson 10" for production & DanWesson 8" for revolver. There is quite a bit of sight adjustment from 50m to 200m if you want to hold center. The longer bbls just make things easier, especially if shooting from the Creedmoor position.
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Old 10-31-2018, 08:28 PM
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If you will be shooting from a standing position, the length of the barrel will affect the balance of the gun and therefore your ability to hold a steady aim. If shooting from a prone or Creedmore position (on your back), balance is much less of a factor. For 100 yards, I shoot a .357 Magnum Ruger revolver with a 4x scope, a .22 caliber Ruger Mark II (at small rimfire targets), and a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a 2X scope. For the 200 yard course, I don't think you'd want less than a .44 Magnum. Especially since the 200 yard targets are quite heavy and difficult to knock over. I use a Remington XP100 in 7mm Benchrest caliber for the 200 yard course. It carries a variable power scope set to 5X.

Last edited by andyo5; 11-02-2018 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 10-31-2018, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyo5 View Post
If you will be shooting from a standing position, the length of the barrel will affect the balance of the gun and therefore your ability to hold a steady aim. If shooting from a prone or Creedmore position (on your back), balance is much less of a factor. For 100 yards, I shoot a .357 Magnum Ruger revolver with a 4x scope, a .22 caliber Ruger Mark II (at small rimfire targets), and a .45 Colt Ruger Bisley with a 2X scope. For the 200 yard course, I don't think you'd want less than a .44 Magnum. Especially since the 200 yard targets are quite heavy qnd difficult to knock over. I use a Remington XP100 in 7mm Benchrest cqliber for the 200 yard course. It carries a variable power scope set to 5X.

If the rams are set correctly (and not bowed from too many impacts) a .357 mag will knock them over pretty reliably.
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Old 11-01-2018, 02:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oddshooter View Post
The 357 maximum was designed for the silhouette game. It is my favorite caliber. Ruger, T/C, Dan Wesson with long barrels.


Prescut
OMG. I just posted in a 7 year old thread.
It WAS Halloween. Zombie threads OK.

It's hard to predict how much Ooomph a particular BB Ram will need if they haven't been calibrated in a while. But anymore, many folk are doing well with Freedom Arms .357 Magnums. I forget how long ago IHMSA changed the rules to reduce the need for super hot loads to take down those 55 lb. steel critters, but it's been a long while.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:56 AM
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Seven and a half years later, I'm left wondering how the OP's 100 meter range and silhouette plans worked out.

That said, there still seems to be interest here, and I'd love to see handgun silhouette competition make a bit more of a comeback.

Way back in the day I shot a 14" Contender in 7mm TCU, a 10" Contender in .45 Win Mag in the Conventional, and both 6" DA revolvers in .357 Magnum, and a 7 1/2" SA Revolver in .45 Colt.

The NRA Hunter's Pistol Silhouette rules allow a 100 meter range using 1/2 size targets and it's both very enjoyable and it's easier to get into without spending loads of cash.

A 10" barrel handles well on a Contender, but I'm not a big fan of revolvers with barrels longer than 6", especially from a standing position. Even in freestyle a 6" barrel is fine. The big issue is the gas coming through the cylinder gap, so in a Creedmoor position, you'll need a leather blast shield on your leg anyway regardless of barrel length. Finally, on a 100 meter range, the difference in sight radius between a 6" and an 8" barrel isn't that significant, nor is the increase in velocity.
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Old 11-01-2018, 07:48 PM
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I'm also curious how his plans came out. With 100 Meters limitation, he is best served with the NRA Hunter Pistol type match. (Forgive me if there is currently something more appropriate now as I have been out of Silhouette shoting for about 25 years). I shot the 200 meter centerfire matches with a TC in (1st) 44 mag, then went with 7TCU also in 10". With 140 gr Sierra's it would occasionally not take down a Ram if hit much below the top 6" of the back. I also liked the 22 match within 100 meters, and shot both my HS Victor and a Mod 17. Somewhere around here I have a handful of 5 straight and fewer 10 straight pins and some old classification cards.
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Old 11-01-2018, 09:53 PM
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To respond to 1 part of the question, a 6" barrel can win in Hunter Silhouette.
Jim
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Old 11-01-2018, 10:26 PM
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I can testify that this Browning Buckmark Silhouette model ruled more than a few Rimfire Silhouette Match's at my local club. Better yet , I used it to introduced quite a few folks ( men, women and kids) to the sport. Once you got them in the Creedmoor position, this old girl would hook them quick!
Something about dropping a steel ram at 100 yds with a .22 handgun that gets even grown men giggling like school girls.

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Old 11-01-2018, 10:43 PM
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Dan Wesson's dominated the silhouette matches for years, and the TC Contenders. Never shot one in a match, but I would think the Ruger Redhawks would do well.
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:44 AM
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Quote:
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I'm also curious how his plans came out. With 100 Meters limitation, he is best served with the NRA Hunter Pistol type match. (Forgive me if there is currently something more appropriate now as I have been out of Silhouette shoting for about 25 years).
That would be called Field Pistol (FP) and Field Pistol Any Sight (FPAS) in IHMSA. Same distances as the .22 targets (25, 50, 75, 100yds) on 1/2 scale targets. Fantastic venue for medium range standing shooting with revolvers. (No freestyle positions, but some ranges now do offer anther category: "Practical Hunter", both "short course" and "long course" which you can shoot freestyle, and even use a bipod until your scores climb past a certain level.)
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:55 AM
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Dan Wesson's dominated the silhouette matches for years, and the TC Contenders. Never shot one in a match, but I would think the Ruger Redhawks would do well.
If you are all about winning, then the currently most popular Big Bore revolver would be the Freedom Arms, in any caliber you care to use from .357 Magnum on up to .44 Magnum. Oddly, nobody seems to use them standing. In small bore revolver class, Freedom Arms also dominates, but perfect .22 Revolver scores have been shot with both Dan Wessons and Smith & Wessons, so don't fret too much there.

What's extra good about Field Pistol class is that EVERYBODY misses. There has not yet been a 40 out of 40 shot in the records since it's inception. (Field Pistol Any Sight has had a few perfect scores, but they're super rare.) Sure, the theoretical best for these venues is a TC or BF single shot in .22 Hornet, but good scores can be had using nothing more than a 4" barreled .38 revolver. I've witnessed one good shooter get multiple hits at 75 and 100 yards with his 1 7/8" barreled DA only J frame Centennial type S&W. His misses weren't very far out either. He got at least one critter at every distance.

Quite frankly, metallic silhouette is more about making the most of what you have and having a good time than winning. Nobody else really cares what score YOU shoot at a local match, just as long as you are safe and not a boor.

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Old 11-02-2018, 06:18 AM
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BTW, i once calculated out the drop from my .44 Mag swaged bullet load from 50 to 200M: Turns out it makes almost a whole meter drop! Uses up most of the travel in the four position front sight with the 10 5/8 barreled 29-3.
Drop from 25 to 100yds is about 8", IIRC.
That's using a 240gr LSWC at right at 1000fps.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:46 AM
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According to my ballistic chart, my 300 gr. 44 mag load drops 54" at 218 yd./200 meters. That's an 8-3/8" barrel. I'm using a scope, so I don't know how it would do with the 4 position front sight. It still shoots small groups (5"-6") at that distance, so it's doing the same thing every time.
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Old 11-02-2018, 04:33 PM
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Having been out of it for awhile, I would think the 32 H&R Mag would be a fine caliber for the 100 yard/meter game. 100 gr slugs going around 1200 fps should shoot fairly flat out that far. The 327 might be more than needed.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:51 PM
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I had my best field pistol score with a 6" M16 32 H&R Mag. Got 34 out of 40 with it. Wish I still had that one.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:52 PM
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My club shoots the 100 yard hunter game.
Don't need a lot of gun, unlike IHMSA 200-meter.
I use an LEO trade-in 67-3 with a Matchdot II.
It has elevation clicks, so I just count clicks out to 100 yards.
Shoots a 160 RN coated Bayou bullet over Power Pistol. 955 FPS.
No problem knocking down those rams.
Personal best is 64 of 80.
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