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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 01-19-2011, 08:26 AM
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I am new to pistol shooting (other than pocket mouse guns) and i just bought a 539, i really like the gun. i use to shoot allot of trap and skeet and i was fairly good. This was over 30 years ago, i am 70 ish now. I have been out to the range several times at different distances, and i am coming to the conclusion that it is very difficult is shot with bifocals. because if i look though the bifocal then the target is blurs or vise versa. any comments on this problem. i would like to be good at target shooting and maybe competative shooting. Thank you Doug from Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:33 AM
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I just thought of someting; has anyone ever tried contacts with mono vision? Thank You Doug from Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:06 AM
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I have seen a couple of ways to go on this problem. There is a company I found online who will take you prescription and grind the lens with the near focus on top so you do not have to cock your head to get the front sight in focus. Another is to put a disk with a small hole in front or on the lens of your dominate eye; this gives you a better depth of field.

The only other method I know is to use a scope or red dot sight.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:16 AM
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I use reading glasses that are only 1.5X and let the target blur and concentrate on the front sights. I lost my dominant eye due to bleeding vessels and now shoot with my other eye.
At least I have one good eye left. I am 72 yrs old.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:24 AM
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I also wear bi-focals. Like most mine are focused for long distance and reading. Neither focus works well for pistol iron sights. I use seperate shooting glasses. I took my target pistol to my optomitrist and he tried different lenses while I focused on the sights. You most likely will have to bypass the front office staff and discuss what you want with the optomitrist. Don't forget to say you only will buy safety lenses and frames that have snap on side shields. This is not as unusual as you might think. A lot of optomitrists are familiar with shooters' needs. You might ask other shooters at the range which doctor they use.

Some pistol shooters find their computer glasses are focused for about the right distance.

The other alternative is to use optical sights, a red dot or scope. I'll put that off until I'm forced to use one.

Unfortunately, I'm overdue for a new set of lenses.

Good Luck,
Gil
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:26 AM
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Thank you Deanodog
Aren't the golden years great? I have been reading allot about this issue. Is there hope that i can be a good shot with a blurry target. It seems like this would be a big problem. I hope i am wrong. What my goals are at this point is to be able to shoot some close groupings at 25 yards. Maybe i am dreaming?
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:29 AM
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Thank you k22
i will try that.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hussky
[...] Is there hope that i can be a good shot with a blurry target. It seems like this would be a big problem. I hope i am wrong. What my goals are at this point is to be able to shoot some close groupings at 25 yards. Maybe i am dreaming?
A clear focus on the sights superimposed over a blurry bullseye produces the tightest 25 yd. groups. This is not just what old guys are forced to. It is also the goal for young shooters with great vision.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:39 AM
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K22

I think i can do it at 25 yards, all i need is is a 10 power scope.
Non realistic goals are just pipe dreams. I don't know who said that, but i think it is true. Doug For Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:41 AM
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I had the same issue with bifocals. The main problem was I kept moving my head up and down to see the sights and the target simultaneously - couldn't get focus on both at the same time. I also tried every type of contact lens combination and style. I finally settled on 1.25 reading glasses with my regular contact lenses. The are weaker than my regular reading glasses but allow me to see the sights clearly and also see the target with only a slight blur.

I also tried optical sights and they are fine but I prefer irons. I also tried a Merit Optical attachment that is a small aperture that sticks to your distance glasses. The aperture increases your depth of field and allows you to clearly see the sights as well as the target. The downside to this solution is that it doesn't work well in low light and IMHO is only suitable for bullseye shooting.

Hope this helps.
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:07 AM
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RGPM
Thank You I am going to find the Merit Optical attachment and see if that helps. Doug From Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:13 AM
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This may be cheating? but do laser sights work for accuracy?
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
.....Some pistol shooters find their computer glasses are focused for about the right distance......
Bingo! I worked this out with my optician. Typically, the distance to your computer screen will be very close to the distance of your front sight to your eye (about arm's length with your index finger extended). This is great for target shooting. Obviously, other types of practice, self-defense for example, will need other approaches. It's highly unlikely you'll be able to get to your shooting glasses in a SHTF situation.

......moon
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:33 AM
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I want to thank all of you
Your comments really helped. I have solved the problem (with your help). I just took a 2" by 2" piece of paper and i put 2 smaller hole in it so i could try 2 different size holes. I put the paper up to my eye and look through the holes at the sight and a target and they are both in focus. I couldn't believe what happened. I can see the sight and the target very clear. i am sure the Merit Optical attachment would work fine but i don't want that big contraption hanging on my glasses. What i am going to do is find some removable stick on soft plastic that i can't see thought and then put a small hole in it and solution solved. ya sure something will go wrong but it is fun trying. thanks again to all. Doug From Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
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I am new to pistol shooting (other than pocket mouse guns) and i just bought a 539, i really like the gun. i use to shoot allot of trap and skeet and i was fairly good. This was over 30 years ago, i am 70 ish now. I have been out to the range several times at different distances, and i am coming to the conclusion that it is very difficult is shot with bifocals. because if i look though the bifocal then the target is blurs or vise versa. any comments on this problem. i would like to be good at target shooting and maybe competative shooting. Thank you Doug from Florida
I have a laser on my 642, big improvement, you can focus on the target with both eyes open
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:48 AM
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I have the same bi-focal issues. Found a great article, I think it was at bullseye and gave to my optomitrist (SP?) not only for fitting but for testing. Try to find that . This guy was a bullseye shooter and an opto!
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Old 01-19-2011, 10:48 AM
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I think for self defense the best solution would be a laser sight. just the laser pointing to someone has to be intimidating in it's self. I mainly carry for self defense against big dogs, I am a real estate appraiser and i work in an area of many pit bulls.
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Old 01-19-2011, 11:37 AM
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I want to thank all of you
Your comments really helped. I have solved the problem (with your help). I just took a 2" by 2" piece of paper and i put 2 smaller hole in it so i could try 2 different size holes. I put the paper up to my eye and look through the holes at the sight and a target and they are both in focus. I couldn't believe what happened. I can see the sight and the target very clear. i am sure the Merit Optical attachment would work fine but i don't want that big contraption hanging on my glasses. What i am going to do is find some removable stick on soft plastic that i can't see thought and then put a small hole in it and solution solved. ya sure something will go wrong but it is fun trying. thanks again to all. Doug From Florida
Huskey its not that big. Fits in a 1" cube easily. Check out this link for a photo:

World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:21 PM
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When you say bifocals, do you mean the no line (progressive) lens? I shoot competition and had the same problem. Couldn't see the target clearly without glasses but couldn't find the focus with the glasses. A fellow shooter with the same problem advised he has seperate single vision glasses for shooting only. I had an old pair of glasses made with single vision lenses and the old style line bifocals at the bottom (I can't see my sight settings without the bifocals). Seems to be working good but I have not tried this outdoors yet, only at the indoor range.
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Old 01-19-2011, 02:36 PM
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The only thing that has to be in focus for accurate shooting is the front sight. I shoot with single vision "computer glasses" in IDPA and USPSA.

In defensive shooting, IDPA and USPSA, it is necessary to shoot quickly and accurately from a varienty of positions with targets at different distances and heights. Trying to find the right spot on a bifocal is not only difficult, it is sometimes impossible due to the position.

Shoot at blurry targets? Heck yes, you should be concentrating on the front sight at distances beyond point shooting, anyway.

Know you don't want to hear this, but suggest you find a good instructor with grey hair and bad vision, and let him teach you how it's done. Buying gimmicks and shooting aids won't help in defensive shooting, which is right now.
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Old 01-19-2011, 04:52 PM
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This is a rough draft but it works. I went over to the oil change store and ask if I could buy some stickers that they put on your wind shield to write the millage down. They gave me three of them. I cut a very small corner off one of them and cut a small square hole about the size of a BB. Make sure the patch you cut out is not transparent. I stuck it to my glasses above my line of sight and when I want to shot I just lower my glasses and look through the square and the gun sight and the target are not blurry. The small patch comes off easily. If you would want to try this just use a small piece of paper and put it over you eye and look at you sight and the target, it’s like magic.
Of course you would not do this in the defense mode; all I do is use the dot on the laser.



Everthing looks so much better when it is clear. Doug from Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 06:50 PM
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One thing i forgot to mention is you have to try different size holes. i need a fairly small hole. the BB size works for me but a little smaller is better for me. Good luck. Doug from Florida
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Old 01-19-2011, 07:20 PM
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While I'm only 64 I've dealt with this problem for awhile. During my LEO days my doc moved me to the transition, or no line, trifocals and they work great. The other suggestion that may work for a "young" fellow like you would be the drug store reading glasses that bring your front sight into focus. Best of luck . . . . . .
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:10 PM
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That makes me feel good being a young fellow at 70. I have transition bifocals and my vision on the sights is OK, it's the target that is blurry with my glasses. but for some reason looking through a small hole brings both sights and target into focus. i will probably buy a Merit Optical Attachment unit. For me looking through a hole seems to work. I am sure this won't work for everyone. i can't wait to try it at the range.
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:47 PM
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Hussky,

I began to experience the same thing several years ago and ran across the Merit device on the internet and bought one. I couldn't believe the difference it made. It does the same thing as your stickers do; but it has a dial which adjusts the size of the aperture until everything comes into focus. The only shooting I do without it is defensive shooting.

I'm sure you'll find a satisfactory solution.

Andy
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:33 PM
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Hussky,

I began to experience the same thing several years ago and ran across the Merit device on the internet and bought one. I couldn't believe the difference it made. It does the same thing as your stickers do; but it has a dial which adjusts the size of the aperture until everything comes into focus. The only shooting I do without it is defensive shooting.

I'm sure you'll find a satisfactory solution.

Andy
Thank You Andy
I really appreciate your comment. It is nice to see clearly, I am sure it will help my accuracy. Doug from Florida
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:35 AM
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Hussky, Thanks for asking about this.Although I'm a few years
younger(55).I have been wearing blended bifocals for about 10 years and fighting with them when shooting my pistols.Thanks to all the other posters for all the helpul information G.B.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:03 AM
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I use cheap reading glasses. I also have WAREHOUSE I believe they call them, safety glasses, they have the magnification at the bottom bi-focal location and also at the top of the lens. You just tilt your head slightly forward to see the front sight, instead of tilting your head backwards.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:44 AM
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I'm surprised this topic doesn't come up more often. I started wearing bifocals a couple of years ago, and learning to shoot passably well with them was tricky--and I'm still not completely satisfied. I may try a set of "computer glasses"; sounds like this might be just the thing.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:09 AM
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I'm surprised this topic doesn't come up more often. I started wearing bifocals a couple of years ago, and learning to shoot passably well with them was tricky--and I'm still not completely satisfied. I may try a set of "computer glasses"; sounds like this might be just the thing.
Have you tried looking through a tip of a pencil size hole in a piece of paper and then put it up to your face and point your pistol at a target and see if you can see the sights and the target as clear as a bell? I am just wondering if i am one of the lucky ones that this works for or isn't anyone else trying this? Just curious? Doug
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
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Have you tried looking through a tip of a pencil size hole in a piece of paper and then put it up to your face and point your pistol at a target and see if you can see the sights and the target as clear as a bell? I am just wondering if i am one of the lucky ones that this works for or isn't anyone else trying this? Just curious? Doug
The idea is at least couple of hundred years old, and special apertures for shooting aids have been made in many forms, including attachment to eyeglasses. They "stop down" your eye much like with a camera lens, giving more depth of field. They are pretty much limited in usefulness to stationary shooting in bright light, since they also dim your view.

http://www.eabco.com/cgi-bin/shopper...on&key=110-010

"The Merit eyeglass aperture attaches to your eyeglasses or shooting glasses and has an adjustable peep hole. Turn the outside and the hole gets larger or smaller. It allows you to fine tune your sight picture with open sights for the best clarity and visibility in all brightness conditions. It works exactly like a camera aperture or the pupil of your eye. Using no lens, the Merit adjusts the size of its hole or aperture you're looking through, changing the amount of light admitted to lengthen or shorten the depth of field."
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:29 PM
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Lots of good ideas. I don't wear bifocals and was having trouble seeing the sights. The target was in focus, but not the sights. I read the suggestion to go back a prescription or two and give the old lenses a try. I dug out an old pair and Bingo! It worked fine. They are also the glasses I use for reading the computer screen.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:34 PM
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The idea is at least couple of hundred years old, and special apertures for shooting aids have been made in many forms, including attachment to eyeglasses. They "stop down" your eye much like with a camera lens, giving more depth of field. They are pretty much limited in usefulness to stationary shooting in bright light, since they also dim your view.

Merit Eyeglass Shooting Aperture

"The Merit eyeglass aperture attaches to your eyeglasses or shooting glasses and has an adjustable peep hole. Turn the outside and the hole gets larger or smaller. It allows you to fine tune your sight picture with open sights for the best clarity and visibility in all brightness conditions. It works exactly like a camera aperture or the pupil of your eye. Using no lens, the Merit adjusts the size of its hole or aperture you're looking through, changing the amount of light admitted to lengthen or shorten the depth of field."
I wasn't aware this idea was around that many years. i will probably buy the Merit system. but for now i am going to try the small piece of stick on plastic just above my line of sight and when i am shooting i just drop my glasses a 1/2" and i am looking through the little hole. i just bought a leather Punch at Lowe's that has several different size holes ($9.00) and it works fine. so right now i have $9.00 invested and i don't have a contraption hanging from my glasses. i hope it works. if it doesn't well i just went on a diet and i hope i will need a leather punch for my belt size reduction, but don't bet on it. Thanks for all the info on this subject it is interesting reading. Doug
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Old 01-20-2011, 02:07 PM
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I just thought of someting; has anyone ever tried contacts with mono vision? Thank You Doug from Florida
I use contacts with mono-vision and love it. I am near sighted and am able to read up close and see far away without any time delay and/or issues. I recently purchased bi-focal for the first time and had them replace the lenses with regulars...I only use my glasses for emergency!
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:50 AM
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I went to the range yesterday and tried out the small circle patch on the glasses and it works. i could see the front, rear sight and the target all clear. I am shooting tighter groups now, it could be just more confidence when the target is clear. It just seams like an easy fix. I also desided that i want to go all 9mm, so i am looking for a small 9mm pocket gun and i am selling the New Sig P238 (380mm). Thanks for all the comments Doug
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:08 AM
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I also found that my computer glasses work perfectly for target shooting. The distance to the screen is almost exactly the same as the distance to the front sight. And you can buy them for under $10 in most drug stores or in Sam's club (4 pair for under $20.)
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:14 AM
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I also found that my computer glasses work perfectly for target shooting. The distance to the screen is almost exactly the same as the distance to the front sight. And you can buy them for under $10 in most drug stores or in Sam's club (4 pair for under $20.)
Thats great Rich. Is the target also clear? Thanks Doug
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:38 PM
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I had cataract surgery on both eyes a while back and chose to have near perfect distance vision and continue to wear glasses for reading and computer work.

YMMV, but I find glasses that bring the sights into sharp focus at arms length, throw the target so far out of focus at anything beyond ~7 yards, that hitting anything smaller than a softball is more accidental than intentional.

I haven't tried the Camera Obscura trick yet, but I've gone to plano lenses in my eye protection and have been learning to shoot at clear targets through slightly fuzzy sights.

What has helped me the most so far is adding a light-colored "U" to the rear blade and a small light-colored dot to the front blade of the open sights that don't already have them, or something similar.

If I was going to shoot competitively, I would most likely try some other things, but shooting for fun, like I do, clear targets and fuzzy sights are good enough for my purposes.

Also, I haven't seen this method mentioned yet. Jerry Miculek has one lens for near vision, one lens for distance vision and keeps both eyes open.

John
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:52 PM
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I had cataract surgery on both eyes a while back and chose to have near perfect distance vision and continue to wear glasses for reading and computer work.

YMMV, but I find glasses that bring the sights into sharp focus at arms length, throw the target so far out of focus at anything beyond ~7 yards, that hitting anything smaller than a softball is more accidental than intentional.

I haven't tried the Camera Obscura trick yet, but I've gone to plano lenses in my eye protection and have been learning to shoot at clear targets through slightly fuzzy sights.

What has helped me the most so far is adding a light-colored "U" to the rear blade and a small light-colored dot to the front blade of the open sights that don't already have them, or something similar.

If I was going to shoot competitively, I would most likely try some other things, but shooting for fun, like I do, clear targets and fuzzy sights are good enough for my purposes.

Also, I haven't seen this method mentioned yet. Jerry Miculek has one lens for near vision, one lens for distance vision and keeps both eyes open.

John
John
just for the heck of it try putting a BB size hole in a piece of paper with a pencil and hold the paper up to your face and then look down at your sights and pick a target to point your sights at about 20 feet away and see if that works. it sure works for my old eyes. boy that was a long breath.
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:59 PM
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Bifocals just don't cut it when shooting a pistol. Trifocals work better but in all honesty, if I'm shooting at targets 20' or less I take my glasses off. I focus on both front and rear and while the target is a bit of a blur, if I aim at the same spot of the blur each time I get a fairly consistent 3-4" grouping at 15-20'.
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:39 PM
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Bifocals just don't cut it when shooting a pistol. Trifocals work better but in all honesty, if I'm shooting at targets 20' or less I take my glasses off. I focus on both front and rear and while the target is a bit of a blur, if I aim at the same spot of the blur each time I get a fairly consistent 3-4" grouping at 15-20'.
Boy that is good, i wish i could get that grouping.
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:18 PM
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I didn't read all the posts so I apologize if this is duplication.

The OP said he was a trap and skeet shooter. This can work to your advantage. You are accustomed to focusing on the target, not the sights of a shotgun. If you've ever shot moving targets with a handgun, the same technique works.

It also works for stationary targets. Since my first guns were shotguns, I acquired the "bad" habit of shooting with both eyes open, always watching the target, not focusing on sights. These habits carried over into handgun shooting and I've always used the same technique, regardless of what open sight weapon I was firing.

When you're shooting at a moving target, you don't really have time to focus on the sights, fire, then refocus on the target to see if you hit it, then come back to the sights for another shot if necessary. I just stayed focused on the target until it was hit. The sights were "there", somewhere in the picture but I know I do not focus on them. Which is good, now, because I couldn't focus on them if I wanted to.

You (nor I) won't win any benchrest competitions using this technique but you will be surprised at the tiny targets you can hit, just by using shotgun aiming technique. I have a .22 Browning rifle that I don't think I've ever seen the rear sight, yet hitting a beer can at 50 or 60 yards is no big deal. Keeping both eyes open is very important. Sometimes when the light is right, you can see the bullets in flight. When you do, you know you didn't blink.

Try it. You've got nothing to lose but keep in mind it will not come overnight.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:15 PM
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I didn't read all the posts so I apologize if this is duplication.

The OP said he was a trap and skeet shooter. This can work to your advantage. You are accustomed to focusing on the target, not the sights of a shotgun. If you've ever shot moving targets with a handgun, the same technique works.

It also works for stationary targets. Since my first guns were shotguns, I acquired the "bad" habit of shooting with both eyes open, always watching the target, not focusing on sights. These habits carried over into handgun shooting and I've always used the same technique, regardless of what open sight weapon I was firing.

When you're shooting at a moving target, you don't really have time to focus on the sights, fire, then refocus on the target to see if you hit it, then come back to the sights for another shot if necessary. I just stayed focused on the target until it was hit. The sights were "there", somewhere in the picture but I know I do not focus on them. Which is good, now, because I couldn't focus on them if I wanted to.

You (nor I) won't win any benchrest competitions using this technique but you will be surprised at the tiny targets you can hit, just by using shotgun aiming technique. I have a .22 Browning rifle that I don't think I've ever seen the rear sight, yet hitting a beer can at 50 or 60 yards is no big deal. Keeping both eyes open is very important. Sometimes when the light is right, you can see the bullets in flight. When you do, you know you didn't blink.

Try it. You've got nothing to lose but keep in mind it will not come overnight.
Thank you for your observations I will try your idea.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:45 AM
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I wear trifocals and shoot IDPA and pin matches. I have fiber optic front sights installed and that helps greatly, even if the front sight is slightly blurred. If I am sighting in a new pistol or changing the sights for a new load, I will turn my glasses upside down so I can focus on the front sight. I can still see the target well enough to do what I need.
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Old 01-28-2011, 07:51 AM
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I had cataract surgery in my right eye at the age 38. The surgery gave me perfect long range sight but my close up vision is very blurry. Now several years later I am starting to adjust my shooting forum. I am right handed. I tried cheaters but like was mentioned target gets blurry. I have learned to use my right eye when shooting pistols. Bought good scope for rifle. Open sights not so good.
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Old 01-28-2011, 08:01 AM
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I had cataract surgery in my right eye at the age 38. The surgery gave me perfect long range sight but my close up vision is very blurry. Now several years later I am starting to adjust my shooting forum. I am right handed. I tried cheaters but like was mentioned target gets blurry. I have learned to use my right eye when shooting pistols. Bought good scope for rifle. Open sights not so good.
Meant to say learned to use left eye when shooting my pistols.
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Old 01-28-2011, 10:14 AM
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Having the same problem, I tried contacts, trifocals, reading glasses and the works without much success. Finally I took an old pair of frames and had my eye doctor put a bifocal lens (full lens) in my dominant eye side and a regular prescription glass in my other side. As long as I shoot with both eyes open, I can see the front sight clearly and see the targets also. It wasn't expensive either since I provided the frames.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:24 AM
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Well i have tried the hole in the patch several times and i think that looking through my bifocals and seeing the sights clearly and seeing the target a little fuzzy is the best way for me. But is was fun trying something out. The punch i bought wasn't a waste, i have lost quite a bit of weight and i will be putting some new notches in my belts. thank you for all the comments Bye Doug
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Old 02-05-2011, 12:00 PM
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Lineless bifocals or progressive lenes make it easier to see sights and target. I have found a 'sweet spot' that works reasonably well.

The solution was 'computer glasses' with a 24" focal length, arm outstretched and thumb nail is clear. This makes the front site clear and sharp. The Merit eyepiece will make the target sharply focused. Don't notice the weight at all.
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Old 02-12-2011, 01:07 AM
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remember husky the focus in trap is on the target while in pistol it is on the front sight -if you are using sights on a pistol correctly at any age and any eyesight the target should be blurry
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