OK. November match shot. I like 10 yards :~) but sure wish I could have tamed that flyer. 2.75" center to center.

After seeing STU1RITTER's target, mine are pathetic. Used my J-frames for this attempt. 5 shots each, right hand and left hand, DAO, at ten yards. First attempt was with 442, second with my mod 60. Next range visit will try with mod 10 and mod 64.

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The K's make this a whole lot easier.
Stu

Well done Stu!

__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Nice going, all. I'm going out tomorrow, with a 317, just to practice. When I shoot for score, it will be with my M&P. Yes, the K frames make it easier, and I need all the advantage I can get.

Well, here's the best I could do and it's not all that good: 4.5 inches. I did learn something, however: I shoot left handed better if I sight with the left eye, even though my shooting glasses don't have the correction to sharpen the sights in the left lens.

And, as Stu1ritter said, my M&P (K frame) is easier to shoot than my 639 (alloy J frame).

Wonder what it would be like to shoot a match with full power loads in an alloy J frame?

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Colin, fine shooting. I plan on going out Monday and trying my K frames.

I'm not sure where 2 3/4" and 3" revolvers fall in the snubbby continuum for this match, but I shot these the other day at 10 yards.

2 3/4" Ruger Speed Six:



3" Ruger SP 101:



My 3" Model 60 showed great promise, but I had a horrible flyer with one of the weak hand shots when I totally blew the staging of the trigger and sent it down range prematurely.

I'd have re-shot it, but we had an intrusion alarm at home and I had to go deal with it. (Wife came home early, failed to latch and lock the door to the back porch, which the wind blew open).



Basically I learned that my weak hand skills have really fallen off (the heavier the trigger pull the worse the groups, so it's a strength thing more than anything else) and I need to spend more time on it, with maybe less time on my strong hand only shooting.

For example, in the SP 101 group above, the clover leaf was what I had before the 5 weak hand only shots. It's consistently the most accurate small revolver I own.

I'm going to the in laws tomorrow so I'll shoot my 1 7/8" Model 36s and my 2 1/8" Model 60 tomorrow and see how the snubbier revolvers do after some weak hand practice.

BB57, from the first post to this thread, way back when;
A snubby is 2" or less for 10 yards.
A snubby is 3" or less for 25 yards.

I hadn't read through to see if that ever changed. Think I'll have to polish up that 3" model 60!

My weak hand skills are pretty bad. I've never shot weak hand before. I have about half a box left of some Federal bulk pack 22. I'm going to take out my 317 and burn a lot of it weak hand. If I can shooot the 317, I can shoot anything: it's very light (alloy frame cylinder and barrel. Barrel has a stainless liner). The hammer is light too, so the mainspring is heavy, with a heavy DA pull. I'll see if some practice can knock some of the rough edges off my weak hand shooting. Wish I had a 2 inch barreled kit gun.

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I was going to grab a handful of snub's and go to the range this morning and just shoot left handed (weak side). That should make for a really frustrating morning of shooting :~)

I've got a much less demanding work and travel schedule now that leaves me home all but 3 days of each pay period, so I'm fixin to get interested in these monthly matches.

I did read a few of the other matches and it's not real clear to what degree barrel length applies.

If you take a literal read on it, then a 2.125" snubby should be fired at 25 yards as is it over 2". For S&W and Ruger purposes that leaves primarily the 1 7/8" LCR and J-frame revolvers (and a smaller number of 2" K-frames) in the 2" / 10 yard class while the 2.125", 2.25", 2.75" and 3" revolvers all fall in the 25 yard class.

In a 25 yard two hand single action match, sight radius is indeed a significant factor. However the shorter the range, the less difference it will make in the overall outcome.

However as a practical matter, I don't think most of us would regard the extra 1/4" sight radius of the 2.125" revolver over a 1 7/8" revolver as having any real advantage even at 25 yards, so it might make sense to define the classes as 2.25" or less and 3" or less. If there is truly a sight radius or accuracy advantage to a 2.75" or 3" snubby over a 2.125" or 2.25" snubby in a match, then it leaves those very common barrel 2.125: and 2.25" barrel lengths at a disadvantage in the 3" class.

As is, it's unclear how 2.125" barrels are classified in some matches. There was for example a recent 3,5,7 and 15 yard match with no mention of barrel length and some 2.125" barrel entries along with the 1 7/8" entries. So it was either a case of counting 2.125" barrels as 2", or a case of barrel length (provided it was 3" or less) not mattering.

It's also maybe a little counter productive to draw the line at 2.0", as that's not the only dimension involved in sight radius. An adjustable sight Model 60 has 1 7/8" from the rear sight to the start of the barrel, while a K-framed sized revolver with adjustable sights will pick up an extra 1/8" of sight radius. That would allow a 2" barrel K frame in the 2" class while the 2.125" barrel J frame is excluded, even thought the sight radius of both revolvers is essentially identical. Plus the K-frame is much heavier, arguably easier to shoot, and somewhat less in keeping with the concept of a small snubby revolver.

However for many matches, like this one where it includes weak hand shooting, I don't think the extra 7/8" or even 1 1/8" of sight radius on a 3" over a 2.125" barrel or 1 7/8" barrel revolver offers any meaningful advantage at 10 yards, particularly as it's the weak hand, DA aspect of the match that is the limiting factor, not the sight radius. In a match like this I'm not sure separate barrel length classes are meaningful - thus the initial question.

I'm just asking for clarification as the issue seems to be a little fuzzy looking at past months, and specifying barrel length as well as any differences in shooting distances in the matches for each month would be helpful, given the variety in the matches. If we don't need to classes, that's a plus as it increases participation and competition in the single class.

And, in a match like this some folks may opt out of the 3" class entirely, given the challenge of hitting a target at 25 yard target at 25 yards in DA mode with the weak hand with any revolver between 2.0 and 3".

------

In any case, I'll plan on re-shooting the 2 3/4" and 3" revolvers at 25 yards - but I expect some people to step up and provide some competition in the 3" class.

I'll also shoot my 1 7/8" Model 36s at 10 yards as well as my 2.125" Model 60 at 10 yards, as I think the .125" extra barrel length is splitting hairs in this particular match.

I don't look at this match with any formality at all. I think it is a "shoot what ya brung" style match and barrel length really doesn't mean much, especially for weak hand double action shooting. I think of it just to have fun.

Ok, I didn't have as much time as I'd hope and the light was fading so I focused on 25 yards, practiced a bit, then shot this with my 3" Model 60 with a 5.87" group:



My 2 3/4" Ruger Speed Six's 6.0" group wasn't bad either. I may need to file just a bit off the right side of the front sight:



I shot the 3" SP101 as well but in the fading light I had to use a 6 o'clock hold to get a clear sight picture, and it put a couple rounds off the bottom of the target.

Reading some of David R's posts, he was pretty loose about things like exact barrel length. I like that approach, and if someone wants to shoot a 2 1/4 inch barrel where the rules say 2 inches, that's OK by me. After all, we aren't conducting a 'leg' match here. The imnportant thing is for as many people as possible to get out and shoot.

Thank you for carrying on. Life deals some bumps and curves in the road. Still out for another few weeks.

Yes, the idea is get out and shoot!

David

David R, wish I had found this match when you started it in May of 2014. Some of the best fun I've had on the range in some time. I really love feeling very, very stupid sometimes looking at the target when I'm done. :~) It is the first time in 55 years of pistol shooting I've used my other hand. Thanks.

David R. VERY glad to hear from you again. I thought you'd vanished. We'll try to be good caretakers and have a lot of fun shooting until you can return.

Here is 20 @ 10 yd. into a 3 " square from my old Mod. 60 using 5 gr. Unique and 140 gr. Speer HP.

Went to the outdoor range at Ft. Bliss Rod & Gun to try my K-frames. Not on par with the Olympic class shooters here but the photos show my results.

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Good shooting!! What's the distance, center to center of the two outermost bullet holes.? That's how we count group size.

I was just proud I could keep four cylinders full in a 3" square. The most extreme spread I can measure is 2-7/8"

I didn't win, but I'm posting this anyway, because I was pleasantly surprised.

Our weather gave us a nice break from the rain, and while the sun was shining, I headed out to the range. It's 45 minutes from here, but a nice drive through the woods.

10 shots, offhand, 5 right hand only, 5 left hand only, into 3.70"

I shot this with a load for a different revolver. The three in the white were lefty, I lost track of which of the others were. I hadn't tried this particular load in the DS, and it turns out it shoots to the same POA as the +P JHP I carry.

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And the winner is Stu1ritter with a group size if 2.75". Runner up is Robert J with a group of 3.7". Good shooting, guys! And thanks to all the participants. Yours truly shot a dismal 4.5", coming in third.

Stay tuned for the particulars of the December match, as soon as I figure out what it will be.

You won, You got out and shot.

David

December match:

10 rounds NOT Standing on your feet. Sitting in a chair, Laying on the floor, Creedmore position, Prone,...... You decide, just not standing on your feet.

Draw from concealment, fire 5, reload and fire 5 more 7 yards, the standard gunfight distance. One hand or two.

Thanks for keeping this going. I intend to shoot, probably prone, hopefully with my 624.

David

David R. Glad to see you're back. We mised you.
Quick question about the December match: Double action of single action?

I intend to shoot from a chair. With my creaky joints, if I could get into prone or supine (creedmore), it would take a crane to get me vertical again. I probably give up something in steadiness to people shooting from prone.

I did not stipulate so what ever you want, please tell which along with the target. I plan to use two hands double action. This is not a bench rest match.


David

My range doesn't allow any holster work so I'll grab it off the table.

I'll stick mine in my pocket.

I went to the range this morning to shoot the match. I was getting some interesting looks when I moved the table out of the way and moved a chair into position and again when the target only went out 7 yards. I belong to a precision shooting club, no holster work at all allowed so I had no way to really shoot this match as David intended. BUT, I was there, so why not at least shoot something, so here is 7 yards, sitting in a chair, 2 hands, double action. I used my 2.5" Model 19-3. This is NOT my entry for this month's match, I really can't do it at my range.

Looking at that target I can believe that you belong to a precision shooting club!

I started shooting when I was 14 on my high school rifle team and that was 60 years ago. I've shot pistol competition most of those 60 years. In the 90's I had one leg toward Distinguished when I had to stop for awhile.
I shake too much to shoot competition these days but if I can use two hands, I can really keep the sights aligned.

It's that 1st Cav training!

__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

mbliss57.................ROTFLMAO

I've followed these matches for some time. I have just 2 problems:

#1. Trigger control
#2. Sight alignment

(#3. Aversion to LAST place)

__________________
S&WHF 366

A helpful training aid for these situations:

Helps me every time!

__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Hmm Stu1ritter, I think you set the bar.....

David

Are these double action shots? A lot easier shooting with the hammer back. Maybe specify one way or the other. But you're right, very cool idea.

Double action, two hand hold, sitting in a chair.

Well, the best I could do was 1.9 inches. I was shooting single action, sitting in a chair, with a bench in front of me to rest the revolver on. It was about as steady as shooting prone. I sure got a lesson in how a tiny difference in the sight picture will make a trenendous difference in point of impact 7 yeards away.

I shot both my M&P and 638. I really thought the 638 would turn in a smaller group; it has better and bigger sights, and the trigger pull is lighter, due to Woolf springs as the mainspring and rebound spring. The 638 shot consistent groups, while the M&P varied more in group size; one of its groups was 0.1 inch smaller than the 638.

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I tried from laying on my right side in the grass two hand hold, right arm on the grass. I fired one when I was not quite ready.



Then not to be beat, I sat at a bench two hand hold single action.



reloading in the grass was not easy.

One more try, this time I shot from the prone position. Arms straight out in front of me making a triangle. Elbows on the ground, single action regular 44 speical loads.

If you do not think this is a snubby, no problem.

David R, I'd call that mighty snubbly. Nice shooting.

Thank you Stu. It was my Dads, He bought it new around 1985. It's a custom shop model. I measured the barrel, 2 15/16". Not going to fit in my ankle holster.

Remember, enter early, enter often.

Sounds like fun. I'll be out tomorrow. Sitting on the bench but unsupported shooting hands. With my 1949 M&P. You all are going to make me and my 68 year old eyes look bad But what the heck I'm going to use a version of the TAROMAN target

__________________
John

Here's my entry--please don't make fun of me

__________________
John

JayBird: yours looks a lot like mine, but with a lot more finish. Mine is SN C 137012. There are several pictures of it on this string. I get better scores with it than with my Model 638.

Cyrano: Truth be told; at "combat" distance of 5 to 7 yards, I shoot better off hand double action with this M&P ( from 1949) than any of my revolvers, except possibly a 15-3

__________________
John

The winner is Stu 1 ritter.

I think he followed the rules just fine and has by far the smallest group. Great shooting.

For January Match, Let's make it Fifty Feet, 10 shots DAO. One hand or two.

Enter early, enter often

David