Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:48 PM
Kiwi cop's Avatar
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Taranaki, New Zealand
Posts: 679
Likes: 1,331
Liked 1,398 Times in 391 Posts
Default Slow down to go faster.

A few weeks ago I shot our North Island IPSC Champs in Classic Division. My pistol of choice is my Springfield 1911 A1 shooting a 200 gn JFP rounds with 5.8 gn Tightgroup for a 175/176 PF. Apart from 20 rounds at Easter and a monthly club shoot in August (where I ended up getting 100% against 4 other Classic shooters, two of whom shoot in much higher grades than I do) it was my first live firing since early March when my wife went into hospital for surgery.

To say it was a miserable weekend would not be far off. It rained all of the Saturday. The top 5 ranges were well drained but the bottom 7 were ankle deep in mud in places, usually around the targets. And while the firing positions were "dry" with the additions of truckloads of shellrock just getting to these dry spots was a problem. I ended up having to clean the mud off both my jeans and shoes overnight on the Saturday and both were still damp Sunday morning.

But it was my shooting that I just couldn't get my head around. Every stage involved missed targets or hits on "no shoots".

This last week I was back on the range practicing for a new 2 day comp this coming weekend, one day IPSC the second day Speed. Because the same gun and ammo must be used both days, and I feel the .45 will be a handicap for the speed day, I will be shooting my Kimber Stainless II in 9 mm, so it was the Kimber I was shooting using my competition load, a locally manufactured 124 gn 9 mm round that I can usually hit a 200 mm (8") disc with at 35 meters 2 out of 3 rapid fire shots.

At 10 meters my standard drill is to draw from the surrender position and achieve 2 A zone hits in under 3.5 seconds, followed by 4 seconds at 15 meters. Usual times are actually under 3/3.5 seconds and each "string" is repeated 5 times. I was having the odd shot dropping low into the C zone while my A zone hits were spread out a bit, so I decided to " go back to basics" and break down my draw, aiming and firing.

Slowing right down to snail pace I soon found all shots hitting the A zone, so I sped things up a bit. Same result so up another gear.

Soon I was achieving the 2 A zone hits in under 3.5 seconds but I was moving to draw, drawing, aiming and firing slower than I had been earlier.. Not by much but noticibly slower to me than I had been. My times were still under 3 seconds (around 2.88 seconds instead of the 2.5/2.6 I had been getting originally) and my hits more centred.

One of my fellow shooters is at the age where speed is just not possible for him. He strolls through a stage, moving moderately but smoothly, and he rarely misses a shot (although he does score a fair percentage outside the A zone but they are rarely D's). When compared to the "speed kings" in the squad watching him is like hitting the slow motion button on the DVD remote. And he usually features at end of match prize giving.

So this weekend instead of going as fast as I can I'll be dropping down the speed throttle a notch or two to see if I can improve my scores.

Last edited by Kiwi cop; 09-26-2017 at 07:51 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:55 PM
TAROMAN's Avatar
TAROMAN TAROMAN is online now
US Veteran
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: The wet side of Oregon
Posts: 5,837
Likes: 6,901
Liked 6,358 Times in 2,047 Posts
Default

Great thoughts.
I need to apply your concept to my next steel challenge game.
thanks for sharing.
__________________
-jwk-
US Army '72-'95
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 09-26-2017, 07:59 PM
Breakaway500's Avatar
Breakaway500 Breakaway500 is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 993
Likes: 4,523
Liked 2,041 Times in 587 Posts
Default

Haste makes waste.Such a simple statement and yet constantly ignored. I instruct high speed driving on track and the number one "bad' habit I have to correct is the input speed the students use on the steering wheel and the pedals. I have to tell them all that Hollywood stuff doesn't work,and actually makes you slower. Eventually they listen..
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 09-26-2017, 08:08 PM
MJFlores MJFlores is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 358
Likes: 114
Liked 370 Times in 128 Posts
Default

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 09-26-2017, 10:14 PM
Steve912 Steve912 is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 1,133
Liked 982 Times in 525 Posts
Default

And remember, life can be a lot worse than damp jeans and muddy shoes.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 09-27-2017, 10:49 AM
Green Frog Green Frog is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central VA
Posts: 4,197
Likes: 461
Liked 2,539 Times in 1,307 Posts
Default

I've discovered, much to my chagrin, that I have never been able to miss fast enough to win! When I start missing or opening groups up unexpectedly I also find that slowing down a notch or two is my first step to recovery.

Froggie
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 09-27-2017, 10:42 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,333
Likes: 3,609
Liked 12,315 Times in 4,277 Posts
Default

A fast miss is still a miss . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-21-2017, 12:19 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
US Veteran
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 261
Likes: 58
Liked 85 Times in 61 Posts
Default

This advice is usually good for bowling-pin shooting as well.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-21-2017, 01:02 PM
Toolguy Toolguy is online now
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,484
Likes: 4,681
Liked 1,800 Times in 783 Posts
Default

Whenever I'm not making hits the way I want to, I mentally go to "Execute the Basics". Sight alignment and trigger control.

Take that extra fraction of a second to solidify the sight picture where you want it on the target before the shot breaks. Not a pinpoint spot, but a small area. For example, on a plate rack, stay away from the edges, but don't worry about hitting the EXACT center. On paper, get in the A zone, somewhere. Somehow this always ends up being a faster time than when it feels fast, but a little sloppy.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #10  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:37 PM
otasan56 otasan56 is offline
US Veteran
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Hartford, VT
Posts: 261
Likes: 58
Liked 85 Times in 61 Posts
Default

At the Chester, NH bowling pin match on 28Oct17, I forgot my own advice in the stock gun class. I rushed through my shots and had two clean misses after five shots. I slowed down with my last four shots and cleared the table. I needed that to win, with 30 out of 30 pins on the ground.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 10-30-2017, 07:49 PM
Iggy's Avatar
Iggy Iggy is online now
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 9,752
Likes: 5,548
Liked 20,688 Times in 4,280 Posts
Default

Bill Jordan told me "work on smooth, fast will come."
__________________
Eccentric old coot.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #12  
Old 11-02-2017, 10:46 AM
H Richard's Avatar
H Richard H Richard is offline
US Veteran
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 17,389
Likes: 8,343
Liked 10,774 Times in 4,718 Posts
Default

When I shot IPSC some years ago the saying was; "you can't miss fast enough to win".
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 11-02-2017, 03:55 PM
Kiwi cop's Avatar
Kiwi cop Kiwi cop is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Taranaki, New Zealand
Posts: 679
Likes: 1,331
Liked 1,398 Times in 391 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by H Richard View Post
When I shot IPSC some years ago the saying was; "you can't miss fast enough to win".
Yeah I know that feeling all too well.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-29-2018, 05:12 AM
Qball's Avatar
Qball Qball is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,971
Likes: 6,763
Liked 4,917 Times in 1,401 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by otasan56 View Post
This advice is usually good for bowling-pin shooting as well.
I attended a Bowling-pin shoot where a guy was so pumped
that he emptied the mag on his Glock in under 5sec. Hit Nothing
Man was he upset
__________________
Jamie wants big boom
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-29-2018, 07:20 AM
OldSarge21's Avatar
OldSarge21 OldSarge21 is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Yooper
Posts: 70
Likes: 15
Liked 100 Times in 43 Posts
Default Slow is Smooth

When I was in the Army, going through Jump Master School, our instructors drilled into us that "Slow is Smooth and Smooth is Fast". We were doing JMPI pre-jump inspections of our parachutists and had to inspect several jumpers with full gear in a short amount of time, finding all discrepancies. We repeated the process so many times at a slow pace that when it was time to perform at combat speed our muscle memory took over and we were able to rapidly glide through the inspections. I would think that this technique applies to the original post's scenario as well.
__________________
1SG, USA (Ret)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 01-29-2018, 11:56 AM
BigBadWolf11B BigBadWolf11B is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 51
Likes: 31
Liked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Default

^^^^ This right here.

Practice slow, practice often and build so you are both fast and accurate. Slowly but surely you will get faster and stay accurate.

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

“Why is the sky blue?”

“What makes the green grass grow?”
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 01-30-2018, 01:36 PM
northbay shooter northbay shooter is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 40
Likes: 1
Liked 16 Times in 13 Posts
Default

I am by no means an expert shooter, I am just middle of the road. However, I have taken a few classes over the years by some world class shooters. One thing is certain. Slow is slow. There are two ways to train in this specific aspect. You can train to be more accurate (bullseye mode) or to be faster (speed mode). When training accuracy, you put away the timer and just focus on being accurate. That does not mean taking 5 seconds to break the trigger, it just means not breaking the trigger until you are certain your sights are aligned and on target. The goal is to understand what sight picture you need in order to shoot center hits at specific distances. When training speed mode, you don't care about your hits. You are simply just trying to get faster. You are looking for a breakthrough. For example, if you are trying for a 1.2 second draw and first shot, you need to know what that feels like. You need to keep trying to go faster until you can get the gun out of the holster and pointed at the target within that time. Once you understand what it takes, then you can start to incorporate accuracy. You go from just hitting the paper, to getting closer and closer to center while trying to maintain the speed.

Again, I am not the expert just trying to relay what I have seen and been taught over the years. It is not easy and requires tons of dry fire to make breakthroughs. As you get better the gains get much smaller and harder to come by.

Last edited by northbay shooter; 01-30-2018 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typo
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 01-30-2018, 09:34 PM
BigBadWolf11B BigBadWolf11B is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 51
Likes: 31
Liked 19 Times in 14 Posts
Default

^^^^ This captures what I was thinking but couldn’t get into words. Working both ends: speed and accuracy. Working them separately at first, then integrating them so your are both fast and accurate.

The outcome is what you are trying to accomplish: accuracy at distance near or far, speed shooting at varying distances for competition, self defense or etc. Train effectively, consistently and constantly for the type of shooting you want to do.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:54 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
Member
Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster. Slow down to go faster.  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 137
Liked 869 Times in 504 Posts
Default

Yeah!Like Bill Jordan said''you can't miss fast enough''.And you could add''easy does it''.When guys come to me and ask a few (free)tips,I tell them to go slow.When they tell me:''but we gotta hurry,the clock is ticking''as if I wouldn't know,I don't loose any more spit.I know that the guy is going to concentrate on slapping the trigger as fast as he can and forget about the rest.
Last summer,one guy came to me.After I've explained to him that mastering the motions in a slow and smooth way was more pay than go for speed only,he just shook his head and saidk,I got it''.I saw him a couple of weeks after the match.Didn't have to ask him;he walked up to me and vigourously shook hand with me,thanking me.That was his first match ever.He told me that he kept concentrating on ''slow and accurate''but didn't know what to expect from that.Actually,he was thinking that he'd see his name at the bottom of the result list.
He came out in the upper mid pack and was very happy camper.Like said,easy does it!.Speed will come in time and naturally.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Much faster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NYlakesider FORUM OFFICE 2 06-17-2016 06:03 PM
I think we need a faster boat... sipowicz The Lounge 30 05-19-2014 08:09 AM
Timing/How Slow is Too Slow Retired W4 S&W-Smithing 4 12-28-2013 03:28 AM
site is faster rebs081 The Lounge 26 02-13-2012 09:06 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:10 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)