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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 06-02-2018, 03:49 AM
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Default What group do I want to join....

I'm interested in branching out a bit, not serious competition (for me anyway) but expand my horizons and meet some new people.

CMP? NRA? I'm not sure they have the type of competitions I enjoy.


IDPA - sounds a little much for me, but would be good for me.

USPSA - This sounds like where I am.

Bench rest.....no

Long distance....no (lousy eyesight)

Steel - no, distances are too great.

Cowboy shooting sounds like it could be fun, but I'm not a 'Wild West' person except for watching movies. And I look silly in a cowboy hat.

What do ya'll do and how do you like it?
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:38 AM
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I belong to and I am active in a couple of small clubs.
I’ve met a great bunch of people, have learned much from them.
I have obtained a few NRA teaching certifications and help out with classes at one club that actively promote’s training. Working as an RSO at club events is rewarding.
Some enjoy becoming involved in the administration and running of the club. I don’t do well with politics, so personally I prefer helping out hands-on in the work parties.
Both these clubs tend to be a blue-collar/workingman membership.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:50 AM
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Look funny and wear the cowboy hat, that looks like it would be a lot of fun.

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Old 06-02-2018, 08:23 AM
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Default Man, if I want to get a laugh.....

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Look funny and wear the cowboy hat, that looks like it would be a lot of fun.

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All I have to do is put on a hat. I would look silly though, if it gave me an excuse to go shooting.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:43 AM
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Rim fire steel with rifles and handguns. Great people good fun and doesn't break the bank.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:43 AM
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Seems you are leaning towards USPSA & IDPA. I like both, but definitely prefer USPSA because of a typically longer CoF, higher round counts per (32 v. 18 for IDPA) and freedom to use different sequence. Both are good just different.
What pistol(s)? Need 4-5 mags for USPSA and 3 for IDPA (minimum).


I have never tried SASS, but it seems like it would be fun. The wardrobe thing is maybe a bit much for me. I relent on the vest and understand the reasoning, but SASS is a whole different level.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:10 AM
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I like all sorts of shooting events myself especially as spectator .I have in the past dabbled in bullseye ,bench rest and what we use to call " combat" matches I say dabbled because tne friends I competed against didn't think me much competition lol. One of the most rewarding clubs I was affiliated with was a sporting clays group back in NC .They were and still are a tight knit group and do a lot of conservation work mostly thru ducks unlimited . To day I am not doing any competition except with a group of friends we ha e friendly shooting matches on occasion but Cowboy Action would be of interest and I have seen a few of there matches very entertaining and you would be amazed at how much firepower a man or woman for that matter who knows how to use SA revolvers a lever action rifle and a s attergun can put down in a short period of time .Tney have their version of " three gun " and their version of long range tactical shooting useing period correct firearms and sights some of thse folks would be very dangerous indeed against a bad guy today . So I would look serious at Cowboy Action as some clubs arent adamant about the attire and everyone I have met at these events have been extremely nice and willing to share information plus I always wanted to be a cowboy when I grew up plus I kind of lke dance hall girls although I must admit to a certain something about a nice looking woman wearing a low slung sixgun on one side and a birds head 38 or 44 at about appendix of course you would only be a complete gentleman to a woman so armed but there is a certain something non the less . Oh my " cowboy" name is Gentleman ( 5 Aces ) Ackerman AKA Ice Pic Akerman for my affinity of useing a stiletto up close AKA hackernman Ackerman for my affinity if useing a Bowie from behind ,oh the 5 Aces thing was an accident like I tried to explain the the guys evidently that 5th ace stuck to my arm from a previous card game that's where I got my last and most used alias , Fast Fatman Ackerman ( not for my gun handling but my ability to out run an obvious not gentlemanly mob of openly armed rouges intent on beating me about my head neck and shoulders with blunt objects) .These cowboy types are awful touchy about their " friendly" card games huh friendly indeed ! Even since I lost weight they still use the " fast fat man " thing . They'll say here comes fast fat man Ackerman and someone unfamiliar with the very distasteful story will always say "wow he must be very fast with that revolver " and everyone instead of answering will just laugh and laugh and laugh . Want to have some fun try Cowboy Action ( just dont cheat at cards ) .

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Old 06-02-2018, 10:32 AM
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Joined a gun club a while ago and started shooting some IDPA matches. Had some fun but what killed it for me was some of the people. Snide remarks and petty arguments seemed to be part of the match. And I can't tell you how many times I wanted to scream "get on with it! Glock is not looking at you to join their team!".
The guy that ran the matches quit and there was a 6 month or so gap between matches. Me and my son started shooting sporting clays and are now seriously hooked.
My club also has SASS, the cowboy action shooting. I've met most and they seem far more laid back than the IDPA. Cosplay is not my thing though.
Bowling pin matches! Lots of fun, simple rules and they generally attract a laid back crowd. My most favorite thing to do with a handgun.
I know there's quite a few gun clubs down there. Look into what they offer and think about joining one. The yearly fee for my club is about what 4 indoor range trips would be. A bargain when you consider what's available.

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Old 06-02-2018, 10:44 AM
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Default CAME CLOSE TO THAT ONE.

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Originally Posted by Salty RI View Post
Look funny and wear the cowboy hat, that looks like it would be a lot of fun.

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Got as far as the name before realizing the cost of the costume & leather alone. Too many SASS police & taking things/themselves SO seriously. IMO Bowling pin & steel challenge are about the most laid back, down to earth groups. FOR SHEER FUN with luck/chance playing a major role, BOWLING PIN.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:11 AM
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I have an itch to try SASS. Met the gentleman that runs the closest club. He says they are pretty laid back about the costume stuff. BTW, I do have the cowboy hat and don't look too bad in it. He said they have few serious competiters but most shoot for fun. Will have to go and at least watch and see what I think about it.
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Old 06-02-2018, 11:12 AM
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I’ve shot IDPA for a while and it’s OK I guess. The rules are nit-picky and they change too damn often. I shoot for fun but you just about need a rule book and attorney if you’re serious about it.

I’m ramping up with my limited time to get back to IHMSA. I prefer the camaraderie and more laid back atmosphere, plus the satisfaction of hearing a boom followed by the clang of steel.

As someone mentioned, I just dont like the people that much in IDPA. The MD is a jerk and everything is rush rush, which it sort of had to be, I guess. Maybe I should get back to it. I seemed to be spawning a revolver renaissance. Ironically, here in Cowtown, there seems to be almost zero interest in revolver competition. The nearest ICORE is almost 4 hours away.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:22 PM
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Hi RW,
I would let the gear that you already have guide you. While we always look for reasons to buy a new gun, they are getting too expensive!

CMP matches - honestly, short of the offerings at Camp Perry, I don't see their matches offered at clubs in my area, so that would redirect my consideration. Check their rules for offered events.

NRA matches - mostly you are looking at precision matches unless you consider action pistol or 3 gun matches. For poor eyesight, you could look into F class matches, but how deep you go depends on how deep your pockets are. Three gun 2700 precision matches might be up your alley, rimfire, centerfire and 45 can be fired with just a 22 and a 45.

IDPA, IPSC, and USPSA require just one gun and leather, which you are probably equipped for already.The down side for me is the need for fast movement (leg injuries).

GSSF matches - like the above matches, but the shooter is stationary, but you must use a Glock. Matches run $30 a match, but they have cash prizes (paid Lewis style) and guns are prizes, but not just to the top scorers.

PPC matches - if you have a club that welcomes civilians, all you need is a DA handgun and acceptable leather.

SAS - intriguing, but you need at least one acceptable single action revolver and a period acceptable rifle and shotgun plus costume.

Trap and skeet - for me a nice change of pace, but it is getting expensive.

Honestly, I can't really make a recommendation since I don't know what is of interest to you.

Ed
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:23 PM
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Default I've got an idea...

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Originally Posted by yeti View Post
Seems you are leaning towards USPSA & IDPA. I like both, but definitely prefer USPSA because of a typically longer CoF, higher round counts per (32 v. 18 for IDPA) and freedom to use different sequence. Both are good just different.
What pistol(s)? Need 4-5 mags for USPSA and 3 for IDPA (minimum).


I have never tried SASS, but it seems like it would be fun. The wardrobe thing is maybe a bit much for me. I relent on the vest and understand the reasoning, but SASS is a whole different level.
I like vests and I could get by in a bowler hat. Bowlers were as popular as cowboy hats to people didn't spend a lot of time outdoors. More the 'townie' type.

famous western lawmen - Google Search
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:28 PM
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Default Now THAT bothers me...

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...Too many SASS police & taking things/themselves SO seriously...
... I think 'reenactments' have value, but some aren't playing roles as much as they are 'living' it.

BTW: That's one deciding factor......I ain't got much money.

No I don't expect people to choose for me. I just want to know what's out there and what people think.

I hear people talking about silhouettes and steel and pins and all kinds of IDPMs and BURDs and right now I don't know what they really involve.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:13 PM
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IDPA Started off with the right idea, but has morphed into what it did not want to be in the beginning, a game. Anytime you keep score it turns into a game. IDPA matches can vary in quality and attitude due to the people that put them on.

My mindset was shoot what you carry. You carry a J Frame 90% of the time? Shoot the darn J frame! Leave the tricked out 1911 in the safe or shoot it at an IPSC match.

I was a range officer and helped run matches for a few years, but decided to go back to having fun and just be a participant.

I have shot informal matches that are defense oriented and they are my favorite.
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Old 06-02-2018, 05:38 PM
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I took up trap shooting. For me, lots of fun, mild competition, lots of learning new techniques, personal challenges, very few wardrobe changes, no hats, and new friends.
Who could want more?
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:02 PM
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Over the last 40 years I have tried nearly all of them. Bullseye, HighPower Rifle, Smallbore Rifle, USPSA, Bowling Pins, Metallic Silhouette, Trap Skeet, Sporting Clays. I was an NRA Cert Instructor, pistol & Rifle, USPSA Cert Range Officer. I handload all my rifle, pistol, & shotgun rounds. At my age, USPSA is out, and I still shoot bullseye and trap & skeet.

I started with shooting after 10-15 years of tournament archery.

As a side diversion, I liked fly fishing and built my own rods and tied my own fly's.

But I do still shoot a bullseye league in the winter (.22 indoor), and shoot trap or skeet weekly.
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Old 06-02-2018, 08:56 PM
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Go with IDPA. You already have the gear, its great practice for those who conceal carry and its a lot of fun!
Don't worry about being a serious competitor. I don't. Too old and slow to worry over scores. I just do it for fun.
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:04 PM
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SASS for me. Been doing it now for 20 years.
Come to a match as a spectator, and 10 to 1, some cowboy will put a gun in your hand, and you will be hooked!
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Old 06-03-2018, 12:34 AM
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Have you ever shot any black powder muzzle loaders? I shoot with the North-South Skirmish Association. We wear Civil War uniforms and shoot breakable targets at 50 and 100 yards with rifle muskets. Firearms range from revolvers and single shot pistols to rifles and rifle muskets to smoothbore muskets. Ranges vary according to the arm used. Then, there are also artillery matches using mortars and cannon.

PM me if you are interested.
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Old 06-03-2018, 07:49 PM
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Don't forget Steel Challenge. It's a non run and gun game that helps you learn to shoot well with whatever handgun you have.
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Old 06-03-2018, 09:08 PM
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Whatever discipline you choose, there will be those there to have fun and those there to win no matter what.

I shoot IPSC (Classic Division) to get better at shooting. As a result I admit I get competitive, especially at multi day Level II and III matches. I check out who is in my grade before the match begins, keep half an eye on how they are shooting and check how I am shooting against them when the daily stage results are put up. But I don’t talk about how well, or how badly, I am doing compared to others in my grade. I accept “good shooting/stage” compliments with a “thanks” and give the same comments when appropriate.

Some I shoot with are real competition focused. We have a rule, only the next shooter on the line to do a walk through while targets are being scored and reset. There are a few so focused on winning that they jump the que four or five shooters ahead. When they get in front of me for a walk through I am now asking them “Are you shooting this stage next? I thought I was after XXXX”. There is room for competition but there is no room for rudness.

There is a group of 4 or 5 of us in the same grade/division who shoot most matches together. It is a friendly bunch who loan each other ammo, spare parts and even at times spare guns.

I shoot CAS for fun. Unfortunately there are some even in CAS who are so competitive they will resort to any advantage. Ruger Vaquero’s rule instead of Colt clones as they can be set up to be “faster”, and .38 Special chambered guns shooting 100 gn bullets loaded to just over power factor (one even denied knowing there was a PF requirement when his .38 rounds failed to drop a plate calibrated for .22RF).

Most social CAS shooters shoot .44/40 or .45 Colt and are there to have fun. They are the ones I like to shoot with.

I recently shot my first Wild Bunch match and learnt a lot. There were one or two who commented that the M ‘12’s were shooting faster than the ‘97’s, but the rules round the guns (1911 .45, 12 gauge pump and a lever action rifle over 40 calibre) mean most are shooting from a position of equal equipment.

In every discipline there are those that will break the rules to their advantage hoping that others do not realise what they are doing. At my last Level II IPSC match we had a RM who attend at the start and said that any illegal equipment would be acted on appropriately. There were several shooter who disappeared and came back with their belts/holsters/mag carriers modified from how they usually wear them. I found myself promoted to squad leader and main R/O and when the RM saw I had added a couple of extra range commands he just quietly spoke to me between shooters and set me right (I was also wearing my pistol while acting as R/O, something that I hadn’t realised was discouraged).

And then there are those that argue every adverse call from the R/O. One shooter I know requests at least 1 “disputed” target be pulled each match day. He has several times been given a warning for un sportsman like behaviour and it is only a matter of time before he is DQ’d for it. I was once disqualified from a two day Level II comp on the second to last stage when I had a pistol malfunction (the sear spring had been lightened a bit too much in an attempt to lighten the trigger pull and the hammer followed the slide forward when I reloaded from slide lock, causing the pistol to discharge. I have since had the hammer/sear/disconnector and sear spring replaced and worked on properly). At the next competition I simply quietly told the R/O who had DQ’d me that I had discovered the gun problem and fixed it. He was horrified when he realised it was a repeatable gun fault not a handling fault but as I said to him, he made the call as he saw it and that was the end of the matter.

No matter what discipline you choose there will be someone who will act in a way you sid not expect. Just remember there are only two rules.

Have fun and the only score you have to beat is your last one.

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Old 06-03-2018, 09:49 PM
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I have shot IDPA but haven’t gotten around to trying any others. Like some others have said it’s the people, who generally compete in most of the other matches around. A few are really great, laid back, helpful with rules, techniques, etc. But the rest are a mix of big egos, militia members, and people who look like they have no business even owning a pistol (unsafe). And everyone out there is eyeing everyone else up and down with a sneer of derision, nobody talks to anyone else except their own few friends. It makes for a very insular atmosphere and in turn makes it very unwelcoming to new shooters.

I like the concept of IDPA, and it’s super easy to learn and relatively inexpensive to participate, but I wish it was more fun. I’d be at every match if it was.
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Old 06-04-2018, 11:33 AM
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Default Words well taken......

Thanks for the warning. I'll make sure that I'm there only for me and I don't intend to compete with anyone but me. Shooting, improving my shooting and hopefully meeting some people to hang out with.

I don't even want to 'walk the course' or do anything that will give me an advantage, but shoot like I would have to in a real shooting situation.

If the matches are held at the Palmetto Gun Club, I know that they don't tolerate breaking rules or not being safe at all times. One warning is all you get. I know maybe other officials will be involved but the philosophy there is really strict. Kinda like an S&W forum at a shooting range.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:58 PM
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I shoot Garand Matchs, Service Rifle, CMP sporter (now that's fun), rimfire benchrest and IDPA. Like others, I shoot IDPA for me. Is it a gamer sport now, more or less. Just ignore the game part and shoot and have fun. I've moved more into BR as shooting the rifle matches is getting harder and harder to get into and out of position at my age (73). Ok, I just can't get up anymore, I can get down somewhat. When i have to go into sitting I usually fall backwards. I tried USPSA and for me it was too much but that too is fun. May try that again. In IDPA and USPSA I don't run to the next spot, I just walk fast. Go out and watch them all and see what you might like.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:59 PM
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I am a newcomer to it but I recommend IHMSA. There is a club at Patrick, SC which is not too far from you that runs matches, I think the second Saturday of each month.

I have only been to a few matches, one there and a couple in GA, and I am not good at that game but it is as much fun as anything can be. I did not know much about it, but just showed up and guys sort of appeared out of nowhere to help with all aspects of the game.

Everyone was friendly and courteous and safe. I don't know how regularly I will compete because it is a 3 1/2 hour drive each way for me, but it is a real hoot. I don't have any specialized equipment. I just use my stock 686 (but with a reflex red dot) and maybe the others are laughing at how bad I shoot, but I can't hear them cause I am busy laughing at how much fun it is.
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Old 06-16-2018, 07:03 PM
Thomas15 Thomas15 is offline
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Can we have an update on your decision?


Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
......snip.....

I don't even want to 'walk the course' or do anything that will give me an advantage, but shoot like I would have to in a real shooting situation.

If the matches are held at the Palmetto Gun Club, I know that they don't tolerate breaking rules or not being safe at all times. One warning is all you get. I know maybe other officials will be involved but the philosophy there is really strict. Kinda like an S&W forum at a shooting range.
This is of course one man's opinion and I have my likes and biases but in IDPA there is usually only 1 way to shoot the course and if you don't walk it and have a plan yer gonna have a tough time. The walk thru will not give you any kind of advantage, not walking it will give you a disadvantage. Nor will IDPA in general help you hone your carry skills in any real meaningful way. Sorry if that offends some but there it is.

Others may disagree and that's ok I have thick skin but unless you see progress over the months then you probably will lose interest. Sure there are some who do it just for the social aspect and that is fine, if you fall into that category then pick one cof and have at it.

Between USPSA and IDPA as far as moving is concerned they are both similar you do have to move. With IDPA you have a cover garment and the stages are usually shorter, USPSA rewards the shooter that has speed. Both of them have a large number of rules, IDPA is in theory simplier as far as rules are concerned but a lot of IDPA rules are just plain dumb. For me uspsa is much more enjoyable and more of a challenge. But again that is just my opinion.


I would not write off steel challenge due to the distance. It is true that some of the targets are out there, but those are large targets and you just have to hit it, a hit is a hit. Two (2) steel challenge stages (Outer Limits and Speed Option) have targets at 35 yards (105') but the targets are 18x24" so they are big.

I've tried them all in addition ICORE but not cowboy action. I'm a USPSA and IDPA RO and as far as IDPA I shoot a yearly classifier and keep my RO cert up to date that is all I do there. To be honest I don't shoot a lot of USPSA either instead I shoot steel challenge and/or wildcat steel/falling steel. I have terrible eyesight and I'm past 60 this is my second year steel challenge and I'm close to being classified an A shooter. Anything you do will be a lot of work to become good at it. I have made the commitment to myself to make Master class in Steel Challenge by the end of the 2019 season.


As another poster said well, what you do can depend a lot on what kind of gear you already have. In that respect IDPA will probably have a less expensive cost to start. If you try USPSA you can shoot in limited division with a production gun and load to your magazines capacity which should allow you to go with 3 magazines to start. You will however get creamed but it should be at this point just for fun and to see what it's all about. The beginner tends to get creamed anyway. Personally I would rather come in dead last (and I have) and not commit a safety violation (which is easy to do) than get DQed my first match or do something that might give me a bad reputation. I shot maybe 6 matches my first year and got DQed, it stung so much that I almost gave up handguns. I didn't shoot anything for about 6 weeks and didn't enter a match for almost a year. Once I got done pouting, I decided to learn from my errors and worked very hard during that year off to fully understand what I was doing wrong and how to correct it.


I have never shot at Palmetto but even all the way up here in the NE that club has a great reputation. They usually run the SC steel challenge state championship match. They didn't this year due to construction which was disappointing because I was planning on going to it this year, unable to make it to the rescheduled and relocated venue.

I shoot steel challenge with men that are 20 years older than me, have worse eyesight and bad knees and hips. Everyone has fun in steel challenge. True some of them shot other things, IDPA mainly because in IDPA you can keep your head above water easier if you are accurate but slow, in USPSA you can shoot all As but if you are slow you will get whalloped. Nothing is perfect on this world so just pick something and get to it.
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Old 06-16-2018, 11:51 PM
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If you are a defensive minded shooter, then idpa is a good place to practice. If you just like to shoot a lot, run & gun, the uspsa will be your ticket. For me, I really don't enjoy shooting 40rd + stages in a 10rd mag state, I also ccw, so idpa suits me better.
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Old 06-18-2018, 11:35 AM
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Another possibility is club matches.
My local club has many different matches every month.
Something for everyone.
Shotgun, rifle, pistol, rimfires, black Powder, 3-gun, 2-gun, military rifle, archery.
Plus indoor 22 matches.
Check your local clubs (if there are any) you may be surprised by their offerings.
Nice thing is that these aren't equipment races, either. Run what you brung.
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