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Old 06-05-2018, 02:05 PM
TDR TDR is offline
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Sharing in case anyone else is hunting this problem.

I decided to give competitive shooting a try this year and chose to start with revolvers (having never been a revolver shooter before.)

I've had mixed luck. On stages where both my gun and I work well I hit the top 1/3 combined divisions but the overall failure of my gun (exacerbated by my frustration) usually finishes me low overall.

For Steel Challenge I'm shooting a 627 PC and have experienced some "issues".

My choice of grips hindered reloads, the cylinder yoke falls out if I'm not very careful when reloading (apparently not an uncommon issue).

But the BIG issue has been erratic FTFs due to light hits. (Gun is stock except for grips, front sight and wolf springs)

1st I thought it was my reloads. I used the last of a case of Fiocchi primers which are known to be a little hard. So, I tried a match with Federal Factory 130gr jacketed round nose and light hit failures INCREASED.

I installed an extended firing pin, cleaned and tightened everything and went to the range on a Friday.

I fired 200 rounds without a failure.

Next day I took the gun to a Steel Challenge Match.

Again, I couldn't detonate 3 in a row.

This went on for a couple matches until I stumbled on the problem.

Though it seemed fully tightened, the strain screw (main spring) was backing itself out during firing. The timing was just right that 200-300 rounds of practice backed it out enough to cause problems at the weekend events.

I used pipe thread Teflon tape and it seems to have solved the problem. (Instead of Loctite since the strain screw is pretty tiny and I didn't want to struggle removing it in the future.)

Hope this saves someone the frustration if they experience this same intermittent issue.

Now I mostly only have myself to blame
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Old 07-27-2018, 11:46 AM
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First off I replaced the factory strain screw with a grub screw and then use "blue" loctite. The grub screw allow me to adjust my trigger weight pull and the blue loctite stays in place for quite a while for future adjustments. Also I not only exclusively use Federal primers but set my primers deeper than usual, like .010"~.013" deep. This gets the primer anvil right against the explosive so positive ignition is increased. I use the Apex firing pin on my Pro 627.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:10 PM
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Teflon tape is a lubricant.

Loctite is a brand name applicable to several different types of glue. If you use the glue intended for bearing mounts to secure threaded fasteners, you will have difficulty removing those fasteners. If, on the other hand---------------------------------

When all else fails, please read the instructions.

Now---about that yoke falling out. I suspect you'll find it's not an uncommon issue for those who don't bother with the screw which secures it.

Ralph Tremaine
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:14 PM
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Blue Loctite works fine. Of course you don't use the green bearing retainer or the red threadlocker.

Usually when the crane falls off on the newer guns it's because the plunger in the screw is too short. No matter how hard you tighten the defective assembly, it won't cure that problem.
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Old 07-27-2018, 01:49 PM
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Get yourself a new yoke retention screw and a longer strain screw (the rib in the Wolff spring effectively shortens the reach of the stock screw) and use PURPLE LocTite. Use Federal primers exclusively and, as indicated, deep seat them (the dimensions he noted seem a bit extreme) .004" to .006" is usually adequate to preload the anvil.

Welcome to the wonderful world of revolver competition.

Adios,

Pizza Bob
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:23 PM
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I have one comment concerning the yoke coming out. The screw securing the yoke is fit to the yoke and if you happen to get the wrong screw back in it's place after putting the side plate back in, you can have problems. When I remove the side plate on any of my revolvers, I have a piece of cardboard with three holes indicating the holes in the side plate where I put the screws as I disassemble. When I reassemble, this helps ensure I get the correct screw in it's place.
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Old 07-27-2018, 03:02 PM
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Put your gun back to stock including all springs....probably runs flawlessly.

Most likely you will have 100% ignition with all primer manufacturers.

I refuse to have a firearm that I must use any specific brand of primer to make it run.

Randy
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Old 07-29-2018, 11:59 PM
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As to the yoke falling out, look at the button of the yoke, the part that the plunger in the yoke retention screw contacts. If there is a notch there that coresponds to where the plunger contacts it when the cylinder is open, that is your problem. The gun will have to go back to the Performance Center for repair.
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Old 07-30-2018, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldChief View Post
I have one comment concerning the yoke coming out. The screw securing the yoke is fit to the yoke and if you happen to get the wrong screw back in it's place after putting the side plate back in, you can have problems. When I remove the side plate on any of my revolvers, I have a piece of cardboard with three holes indicating the holes in the side plate where I put the screws as I disassemble. When I reassemble, this helps ensure I get the correct screw in it's place.
This used to be the case, but like a lot of things s&w found it cheaper to install a spring loaded yoke screw so they didn't spent time fitting it to the yoke. You will find like Toolguy says that they also come in different lengths.
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Old 08-03-2018, 10:44 PM
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Do you use speedloaders and insert them with your left hand while holding the butt in the right hand?

One the one occasion I saw a yoke come out the person was using speedloaders, loading with the left hand, and the screw had loosened a bit. Thats all it takes. I load right handed, holding the gun and cylinder firmly. The yoke won't escape when holding the cylinder.
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:31 AM
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Early on Infound most ammo FTF issues were ammo based not gun based (apart from loose or incorrect fitting screws). These days I have very few FTF issues, particularly in competition, but I follow the below procedures.

1. In S&W revolvers fitted with a ribbed mainspring I replace the mainspring strain screw with an 8-32 X 1/2 UNC hex head screw. Use blue locktite to hold it in place.

2. Check all sideplate screws are in the right place. Even though I have Locktitefbthem in (blue locktite) I check regularly that the bond has not broken and the screw come loose.

3. Make sure that you take a cleaning kit along to your last practice session before each comp. After practice give the gun a good clean and check all screws are tight. Fire off two magazine or cylinders of your competition ammunition to ensure evdrything is working properly then put the gun away until your next comp.

4. With .45 ACP ammo or any cartridge using LPP I run every primed case through a press mounted primer after priming to ensure it is seated properly. But with .38 Special, 9mm etc using SPP I simply run my thumb over the primer while removing the case from the priming tool. You’ll soon get used to what a properly seated primer should feel like.

5. When loading for a comp (rather than just practice) I chamber drop the ammo (semi auto) or load it into my revolvers cylinders. This gives me assurances that the ammo will load during the comp and another chance to visually inspect each round. If there is anything suspect abput the round it goes into the practice ammo container.
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Old 08-04-2018, 12:52 PM
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Great advice.
From Loctite, I've been migrating to


.
Allows for adjustment whilst maintaining its hold.
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Old 08-04-2018, 01:11 PM
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Failure to fire is a serious problem (not "issue") that needs to be corrected ASAP. Replace those crappy aftermarket springs with full power factory originals, and install a new strain screw if yours has been ****** with. Installing light springs is not a "trigger job". And re-install the correct firing pin; you fixed the wrong problem.

The yoke falling out is also not acceptable, although not critical. It should get fixed.
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Old 08-04-2018, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Failure to fire is a serious problem (not "issue") that needs to be corrected ASAP. Replace those crappy aftermarket springs with full power factory originals, and install a new strain screw if yours has been ****** with. Installing light springs is not a "trigger job". And re-install the correct firing pin; you fixed the wrong problem.

The yoke falling out is also not acceptable, although not critical. It should get fixed.
A club member turned up to the range recently with a new 929 revolver. The trigger was too heavy for her to operate so I swapped out the standard (16-18 Ib) trigger return spring with a 14 Ib one I had in my kit. The result was a much better trigger pull,she can actually use and no change to the mainspring power effecting primer strike.

Incidentally, that stock mainspring is identical to the Wolff full power ribbed mainspring spare I also carry in my kit.
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Old 08-04-2018, 10:09 PM
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I don't know about that; I have never heard a credible report of a stock S&W revolver with OEM springs fail to fire because of too light a hammer strike, or too short an OEM firing pin. It's a good day when I learn something new, as they say...
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Old 09-02-2018, 10:32 PM
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If you are going to work on your revolvers it pays to get a good manual that not only explains how to work on them but how changing one part affects the others.
With that being said most out of the box revolvers will have trigger weight so heavy you won't be competitive, if you're not willing to put the time and effort into learning the ins and outs of revolver work then pay a competent gunsmith to do it or buy a custom competition ready gun.
Once you get the trigger weight down to 4, 5, & 6 lbs it's not going to reliably (if at all) shoot factory ammo, resign yourself to loading your own and it will be a competition only gun.
As usual YMMV
Larry A.
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