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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 07-18-2018, 01:13 AM
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Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS.  
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Default Wandering adjustments on AFS.

Like most non business organisations in this country both my club and Pistol New Zealand, the National pistol shooting body, run the same 1 July - 30th June financial year as businesses do. That means 1st July is the start of the new “completion year” for Club championships.

I run our club Service Match (90 shot abbreviated PPC/1500 match shot at 50, 25, 10 and 7 yards) and Classic Pistol (48 rounds at 10 and 25 yards) club champs using a ladder format throughout the year. Last Sunday was the first day for shooting our 2018/19 Service Match championship. It was also the designated day for our club to shoot a PNZ Service postal match.

So I loaded my range bag, a couple of hundred .38 special rounds and my 686 AFS into the car and trundled off down to the range.

After setting the targets up I ran the other shooters through the 50 yard course (6 shots prone, 6 standing/sitting, 6 right barricade and 6 left barticade in 165 seconds). Then I took the line. After checking the AFS was set on position 4, the 50 yard setting, I loaded and on the signal went through the series. It had been a while since I short a revolver but overall thought I did okay, until I reached the targets to score and was met by 4 blank targets.

One of the more experienced shooters told me he had been trying to spot my shots but couldn’t. Checking my sights I realiseD the front sight was high. The adjustment wheel was not properly set and my shots were going low.

I was about to sign a 0 score for the series but the others insisted I shoot again. Once more I took the line, felt most of my shots were good, but the “spotter” said I had been shooting high and the targets told the story. One hole in each of two of the four targets. Both in the 6 ring at 12 o’clock.

Now the last time I fired this revolver I had a similar problem and had carefully resighted the front sight. As everyone else moved to the 25 yard line I called a break and after raising the position 4 set screw half a turn with the allen key I fired 3 rounds into the 7 and 8 ring again at 12 o’clock and able to be covered by my palm. Giving the position screw another half turn I changed to position 2 for the 25 yard shooting and moved on.

Again I put everyone through the two 25 yard strings and took the line myself. This time I had 2/3 of the rounds on target, but again high, centered at 12 o’clock in the 7 ring.

At this point I decided to withdraw for the day and put everyone else through the rest of the match. With shooting officially over I set up a target on the left at 25 yards and one on the righ at 50 so I could shoot them both off a rest. After firing two rounds of 6 shots at each target I had both sight settings zeroed in and decided to double check by firing 6 rounds at each distance as if in a match.

The 50 yard rounds I fired single action from prone. A few rounds went off before I was ready, reminding me that I need more revolver practice. On approaching the target I was pleasantly surprised to find 3 10’s, 2 9’s and a 7 out to the right (one of the “surprise” shots before I was ready).

At the 25 yard line I grabbed the timer and set it for the 6 second string. Having removed my holster earlier I simply held the revolver at 45 degrees cradled in my left hand, hit the timer delay and assumed the start (surrender) position. This time I had one shot at 7 o’clock in the 6 ring where I snatched the trigger down, the rest were all well inside the 7 ring (scoring8 and above) and nicely centred.

I’m not sure why the AFS settings “wandered”. I have two different .38 special loads usin* the same 148 gn PHBWC and I may have got them mixed up on my previous outing with this gun, (hencehaving to change settings both times). When I got home I pulled the bullets on two rounds and confirmed by sight the powder and small charge weight before pulling a couple of the other rounds to double check.

One thing is for certain. In the next few weeks I will be taking the 686 back t9 the range and after reconfirming both sight settings will be adding a drop,of my wife’s clear nail polish to each front sight set screw.

Unfortunately I neglected to photo my tartrgets on Sunday and when I got back to the range this afternoon someone had shot the heck out of the one I had used at 25 yards. The 50 yard target was still locked away where I had left it so got a pic of that to post.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:59 PM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is offline
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You would probably be better served to record the height or depth of each setscrew as closely as possible, take them out and clean them and the holes, then apply blue or purple Loctite and screw them back in as nearly as possible to the original settings. Then when you fine tun the settings they will positively stay put, but still easily adjustable.

I would remove the front sight with setscrews for this operation. Use ample Loctite on each and wipe off the excess. If you don't have any Loctite, I would bet Richard does.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:20 PM
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I have a bottle of blue locktite sitting on a shelf above my loading bench. But the last time I used it on the 686, on the mainspring strain screw, I almost stripped the screw head when I next tried to remove it. I ended up running my paint stripping heat jun on the grip for 5 minutes to get the screw to move .

I don’t want to lock the screws solid, just stop any movement. Someone told me nail polish worked well with a drop running down the threads from the top and was easier to break the seal than locktite.

Last edited by Kiwi cop; 07-18-2018 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:39 PM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is offline
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That is strange. I use blue all the time and it's easy to make adjustments forever.
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Old 07-20-2018, 12:35 AM
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Purple loctite 222 is what you want to use. Its specifically designed for small screws and breaks loose fairly easily if you need to remove them.
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Old 07-20-2018, 02:56 AM
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I use plastic digital or dial calipers to check front sight settings on my AFS 29-3s. Just record the four heights from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the front sight blade. As it turns out, using the numbers from the 50m to 200m sight settings the math works out to almost exactly a meter bullet drop from the one to the other! (I don't push those lead bullets all that fast.)

I also milled out a nylon block which is used to hold a dial indicator (1" travel for convenience) in place on the top strap to record rear sight heights. Keeps me from getting "lost" when testing loads!

I have seen a few AFS sights with fairly loose set screws, but mine take at least a little torque to move in the "Untensioned" state, so a wandering zero from that source hasn't been a drama. I think I did use some Loctite 222 on a 686 AFS barrel once without any trouble. Aside from wretched accuracy from that particular revolver, which had nothing to do with the sights!

Last edited by jaymoore; 07-20-2018 at 03:00 AM.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:56 AM
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Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS. Wandering adjustments on AFS.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymoore View Post
I use plastic digital or dial calipers to check front sight settings on my AFS 29-3s. Just record the four heights from the bottom of the barrel to the top of the front sight blade. As it turns out, using the numbers from the 50m to 200m sight settings the math works out to almost exactly a meter bullet drop from the one to the other! (I don't push those lead bullets all that fast.)

I also milled out a nylon block which is used to hold a dial indicator (1" travel for convenience) in place on the top strap to record rear sight heights. Keeps me from getting "lost" when testing loads!

I have seen a few AFS sights with fairly loose set screws, but mine take at least a little torque to move in the "Untensioned" state, so a wandering zero from that source hasn't been a drama. I think I did use some Loctite 222 on a 686 AFS barrel once without any trouble. Aside from wretched accuracy from that particular revolver, which had nothing to do with the sights!
I have the four sight heights from my old loads recorded on a notes page in my phone. I really need to remeasure and record them again. As we only have a 100 meter range which is used for rifles I have the sights set for 6 o’clock hold 25 meters, POA/POI 25 yards, POA/POI 50 yards and an “intermediate” 10-15 meter setting that I really never use for matches I use this revolver for.

As an aside, this afternoon I dropped by the range and checked the sight settings. Off a rest and firing single action at both 25 and 50 yards the shots on a B-28 target were all high, centered in the 7 ring. Before moving the set screws again I fired 6 rounds prone, single action, at 50 yards and 6 rounds standing, double action at 25 yards. In both cases the sights were spot on.

A couple of dropped of my wife’s clear nail polish was applied and should ensure the screws don’t move any more

Last edited by Kiwi cop; 07-21-2018 at 08:00 AM.
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