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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 07-28-2018, 03:10 AM
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Default New competition .22. How do I choose?

My club is about to instigate a .22 event combining pistol and semi auto rifle. It is hoped to build enough interest to eventually run a 2 day event annually.

In my safe I have one .22 semi, an Armscore built Stirling M16. Built on the M20 action it has a cheap pistol grip stock, a piece of bent tin for a rear peep sight and protective wings either side of the front sight. It uses the M20 magazine with a “box” pinned around it. I have one mag but did have several M20 mags which while clumsy work and a couple of the “boxes”. The whole thing cost me abou $100 20 years ago and is worth nothing now, especially as I think I threw the extra mags away in a cleanup some time ago.

Today I checked online for some extra mags. I can’t get the “box” M16 mags but M20 ones are available for NZ $100 each.

Now I’m looking at a new .22 semi to compete. The S&W M&P 15-22 is the favourite amongthose intending to shoot this event, but in this country, in order to comply with our “sporting rifle” legislation,there is a 3/8” steel rod running from the base of the pistol grip back to the to top of the shoulder bar of the stock. This feels strange to me, and 10 round magazines are all that is available.

I can get a couple of 25 round mags when I am in the US in October and have it put on my semi-auto endorsment (I will also need to get a permit to import the mags but that is pretty easy and painless. The cost of the M&P is NZ$1250and to me it feels a little bit “plasticy”. I have nothing about plastic stocks. I like shooting my issue M4 and my Mini 14 has a plastic pistol grip stock on it currently, but this feels just a little cheap to me.

Other shooters are building Ruger 10/22’s for the match. I can get a blues/laminate stock Ruger (2nd hand) for NZ $400. When I’m in the US I can pick up a pistol grip stock (under NZ$100) and some 25 round mags NZ$25 (retailing here for N$120 each). Again I will need to register the rifle on my license and get a permit to import the atoxk The sights on the Ruger are not as ideal as on the M&P but usable.

Option 3 is an Armscore built Webley & Scott X22, a copy of the Ruger 10/22. All 10/22 stocks, magazines and after market accessories will fit. It has a synthetic stock that is soft and feels nice to me. I could use this stock in competition and I will not need to modify it to a pistol grip one. I’ll also not need a permit to import the magazines as they will be for use in a bolt action “77/22” therefore not subject to our semi auto legislation. The only downside is the rifle comes without sights of any description but does have a picany rail over the receiver.

I’m not sure of the sight requirements for the event. I suspect it will either be open/peep or red dot sights for both firearms (my Browning Buckmark has open sights so my rifle will probably need to fit that category too). My LGS tells me they can get a rear sight to fit on the rail and the end of the muzzle is threaded for a suppressor with a ring to protect the threads. I can have a front sight silver soldered to the ring but it will be pretty tall. And the X22 has a much nicer trigger than the Ruger.

Right now, despite what I perceive as drawbacks I am tending to favour the M&P. Yea, it is the current “flavour of the month” and the most expensive, but it will be competitive out of the box as long as I can get the magazines.

Financially, given I will only shoot this rifle a few times a year, I am tendin*btowards the Webley & Scott. But ...........

Any thoughts/opinions?
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Old 07-28-2018, 05:07 AM
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From your description, the W&S seems the logical choice. Like other rifles cloned off the 10/22, the customization options are huge. Also quite reliable, given good magazines.
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Old 07-29-2018, 02:44 AM
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A friend of mine has a 10/22 Target rifle. HB, standard looking stock but probably not standard and that rifle is an absolute tack driver. Coming from me that is about as good as it gets. With .22 pistols it seems to be about what "fits" you best.
Sounds like you are thinking this through. Im sure you will find what works the best.
Jim
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Old 07-29-2018, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymoore View Post
From your description, the W&S seems the logical choice. Like other rifles cloned off the 10/22, the customization options are huge. Also quite reliable, given good magazines.
The W&S was where I was leaning, but after 24 hours of research and thought I have come up with the following.

1. The trigger will need updating to be competitive. Another $200.
2. Silver soldering a front sight will not work. Either a rail will need to be fitted or more likely the old Stirling front sight will need to be refurbished and installed (it’s just a slide on unit secured with a grub screw). The rear sight “handle” can be slid on if I replace the rail with a dual dovetail/rail that Ruger makes.
3. That M&P just looks so much nicer and I won’t have to bother with making a sows ear out of a nice basic rifle that is missing a few items.
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:05 AM
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The 10/22 is not too high in cost and comes with a HUGE selection
of add on parts to up grade it to your likings.

"Glass" if used is the top dollar item in your quest.....
if using iron sights, you will save a bundle of cash.

There are other rifles that are also good if available.
Back in the 60's I had a Stevens auto that was a tack driver.

Good luck on your chase.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:23 AM
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Default Today I was followed home by.....

Well, the Stirling M16 is now sitting in a sporter M20 stock. I found the stock on a local online auction site and I got it for NZ$25 (about US$16) plus a few dollars delivery. Fitting it was not as straightforward as I originally thought.

The attachment fitting between the barrel and the stock was in a different place, but it actually came down right where the front trigger guard screw was on the shorter stock. I simply drilled a larger hole in the stock and trigger guard and countersunk it into the trigger guard. I then simply cut away the inside of the stock above the trigger guard and shortened the attachment screw a little. All up it took me about half an hour to fit.

I have now "de-registered" it from my MSSA (assault rifle) endorsement. Unfortunately the extra mags I had seem to have disappeared and at NZ$75 (US$50) each I am not that keen on buying two more (there are only 3 for sale in the whole bloody country at that price. Others are NZ$100 each).

Yes that stock has been carved all over. It looks nice and feels even better. It will definitely be non slip when wet. Right now it is wearing an old 4 X 32 scope I have lying around as the AR15 type sights just don't look right. But I have just ordered two holographic style dot sights with 3/8 dovetails and eventually it will wear one.

I could buy another mag and borrow two my brother has when needed, but today I decided to let a new M&P 15-22 follow me home from my LGS.

They are proving quite popular here. I know of at least 7 other club members who have bought them in the past few months. Yes, it was almost three times the price of the W&S and twice the price of a Ruger, but I can get spare mags easily enough from Brownells (I checked and they will send to NZ).

Also I have a 30mm red dot sight that I can install hard up against the front of the pop up rear sight and remove, allowing me to shoot in both Iron Sight and Optics divisions, with only a few turns of an Allen key. That was something that neither the W&S or Ruger could do and was the tipping point.
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