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Smith & Wesson Competitive Shooting All aspects of competitive shooting using Smith and Wesson Firearms. Including: IPSC, IDPA, Silhouette, Bullseye.


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Old 03-04-2020, 12:44 AM
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Default USPSA Revolver Major change

After a 4 year gap in shooting USPSA Revolver Major I have learned that USPSA now allows 8 shot revolvers Minor caliber.....I see now that few stages are revolver friendly....many arrays are now 8 shot with mandatory reloads which makes for a long day if you are shooting a 6 rounder......

Seems like Revolver Major is a thing of the past. Have a 625 JM that was the hot ticket for that division......

Anyone else have the same thoughts?


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Old 03-05-2020, 10:29 AM
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The rule change was from Oct 9, 2013, and went into effect Feb 1, 2014.
Many bought 627 8 shot revolvers right away, while some of us struggled with the 6 shot gun.
A 6 shot revolver still finished 10th overall at the Nationals this year.
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Old 03-05-2020, 11:15 AM
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I'd shoot my 625 and wouldn't regret it. You may not win but you will sure know how to reload your gun under pressure of competition.

For many years I shot my revolver while everyone else was shooting their autos. Stages were definitely not revolver friendly and many times the Match Director would tell me he was sorry I had to reload so often.

It was my idea to shoot the revolver so I didn't matter. I was practicing my reloads and easily got them to under 2 seconds even with Jet-Loaders ( Safariland Comp IIIs are about the same thing).

Do what makes you happy.
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Old 03-05-2020, 01:28 PM
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If you want to feel even more left out try the same new rules in ICORE, plus they also use penalty MIKE par time stages.
If you use a 6 shot revolver in those stages, failing to finish in time gives you so many penalties, you wonder why you bothered to come.
The answer from the ICORE match director in OKC: buy a new revolver with 8 shots!! His favorite stages are 16 or 24 shot par times with penalty mikes and short par times. No hope of finishing with the extra reload using 6 shots.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:16 PM
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Every game has its rules, those who are very good will be good, no matter the rules.
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Old 03-05-2020, 02:31 PM
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I'm sure the guys in limited 6 categories are going to really get on that MD.
Some guys just want themselves to win and screw it to the others. I'd look for a new match.
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Old 03-09-2020, 09:59 PM
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The only way you get revolver major friendly COF's is if the director is shooting in that division. Sorry, but no wonder no one in USPSA wants to shoot revo, as they NEVER make the courses even slightly friendly.
It's only worthwhile to compete in this if you have several others in the came category. I'm close to giving it up, as I cannot interest others in the joy of revolver shooting!
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Old 03-09-2020, 10:38 PM
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I suggest shooting NRA Action Pistol (aka Bianchi Cup) all shooting is from static positions and revolvers and autos shoot on an equal basis. The four basic courses of fire (The Moving Target, The Practical, The Falling Plates and The Barricade) have stood the test of time and test shooting skill like no other game.
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Old 03-09-2020, 11:03 PM
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In my humble opinion, USPSA, ICORE and even IDPA is getting to the point where they're so up their own rear ends with rules and technicalities that it isn't even fun anymore and its off putting to new shooters.

The more informal local matches can be a lot of fun, I try and find those when I can.
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Old 03-10-2020, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AManWearingAHat View Post
In my humble opinion, USPSA, ICORE and even IDPA is getting to the point where they're so up their own rear ends with rules and technicalities that it isn't even fun anymore and its off putting to new shooters.

The more informal local matches can be a lot of fun, I try and find those when I can.
I shot USPSA thirty years ago and don’t remember so many rules. I took twenty five years off and got into IDPA last year. The rules read like something a home owners association would come up with. Looking at USPSA rules they seem just about as bad. Now I’m not sure that I’ll shoot another match.
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Old 03-10-2020, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by AManWearingAHat View Post
In my humble opinion, USPSA, ICORE and even IDPA is getting to the point where they're so up their own rear ends with rules and technicalities that it isn't even fun anymore and its off putting to new shooters.

The more informal local matches can be a lot of fun, I try and find those when I can.



That is exactly why I started. Then quit uspsa after 12 months.
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Old 03-10-2020, 01:01 AM
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I’ve watched more than one shooting organization succumb to this cycle. From my observations, you have a core group of people who want to start something fun and informal because they’re dissatisfied with what’s out there, new people join, the original spirit of the match/ game gets diluted from what the founders intended. People become more and more obsessed with “winning” people start finding loop holes and technicalities to exploit to win. Rules are passed to close those, more are found be it equipment or whatever, repeat until the original group has long left, it’s no fun for the “swing what you bring” crowd, and your core demographic is a bunch of people playing to the rule book, and the bar to entry is now high and intimidating for new shooters.

USPSA, 3 Gun, ICORE, PPC, and IDPA are all in this cycle at some point or another. Stock divisions help to alleviate this somewhat, but even there if you’re not intimately familiar with the rule book and how to game the scoring system you’re non-competitive. Some people just go to socialize and not care about the scores. If you’re not planning to seriously pursue the game, this is what I recommend to new shooters. Don’t even bother with the score and go have fun. Set your own standards.

I personally prefer accuracy games because the rules are simple and there’s inherit objectivity to it. Though the bar to entry, equipment wise, can again be high.

Sorry that turned into more of a soap box than I expected haha
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Old 03-10-2020, 06:29 AM
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I shot revolver for over 40 years and had to give it up do to injuries. I feel you pain. IDPA turned me off with all their rules. My 625 became illegal because it had a 5 inch barrel. Heck I can conceal a 5 inch with no problems.

In the past few years the 8 shot revolvers have taken over the USPSA and ICORE matches. I saw the writing on the wall when Jerry Michulec was shooting he 7 shot Bowman. Everyone was going to have to have a high cap revolver. When Charlie Prest (sp) came out with the 8 shot I think the sport was doomed.

ICORE use to be 6 round neutral but now you need an 8 shot to be competitive. I don't mind reloading, at least they have a division for 6 shot guns but again the stages are just designed around 8 shots.

USPSA allowed the 8 shot and course of fire was never revolver friendly but has changed so that shooting a 6 shot isn't fun.

Sorry for the rant. My favorite shooting sports just changed too much for me.

Steel Challenge is still a great alternative. Everything is only 5 shots. The targets are so large and so close that your 6 shot is welcome. Just don't shoot too fast that you need a reload. Jerry Michulec even destroyed the automatic guys at many of the National matches. You don't need an 8 shot to be competitive.
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Old 03-11-2020, 10:25 AM
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I had a USPSA # beginning with an A, so you know it was a long time ago. It's been now over 25 years since I have shot a match. I still shoot bullseye, the rules are the same for both revolver and auto, and with practice doable for a revolver. But when I started a center-fire bullseye match at our local club and tried to have 900 point match's, (didn't want to try 2700 point that soon), the run and gun shooters bitched it took all day, and soon most of them didn't come.

Now, we also have access to a .22RF bullseye club (indoor), and during the winter we hold a 300 point 50 ft match league (10 week) and all 20 firing points are full and several more shooters require us to have a 2nd relay for the match. They all enjoy it, but when the weather warms up they are mostly out at the run and gun matches again.
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Old 03-11-2020, 11:05 AM
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I shot IDPA on and off for about a year. The rules are never ending. The last straw for me was when I pointed out a section where there was no way I could safely shoot it being left handed. Nobody cared and was ignored when I asked how am I supposed to shoot this.
The club started steel challenge last year and that, so far, has been fun and relaxed. You still have your "professionals" show up, but generally it's a bunch of older guys having fun.
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:35 PM
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The games men will eventually invade every type of shooting match there is to gain an advantage. But they donkt last long. Most move on to the “next best thing” when their performance plateaus.

I shoot IPSC Classic Division (single stack) major. I am limited to 8 rounds. Almost everyone else shoots minor (10 rounds) and stages are set around that number of rounds between reloads. The emphasis in past years Has been on speed alone. Yet I see those minor shooters in my division going so fast that they miss targets and end up shooting to slide lock. My .45 ACP major is competitive.p because once they do they keep shooting to slide lock every mag instead of altering their plan to get back on track.

My rule is that the only score I have to beat is my last one, so for me it is still a lot of fun.

I shoot my 686-4 in revolver friendly competitions only.
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Old 03-16-2020, 12:55 PM
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The games men will eventually invade every type of shooting match there is to gain an advantage. But they donkt last long. Most move on to the “next best thing” when their performance plateaus.

I shoot IPSC Classic Division (single stack) major. I am limited to 8 rounds. Almost everyone else shoots minor (10 rounds) and stages are set around that number of rounds between reloads. The emphasis in past years Has been on speed alone. Yet I see those minor shooters in my division going so fast that they miss targets and end up shooting to slide lock. My .45 ACP major is competitive.p because once they do they keep shooting to slide lock every mag instead of altering their plan to get back on track.

My rule is that the only score I have to beat is my last one, so for me it is still a lot of fun.

I shoot my 686-4 in revolver friendly competitions only.
You're the kinda guy I want for a match buddy. Good on ya.
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Old 03-16-2020, 01:00 PM
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Considered joining, went to an intro at my club and learned that many stages started in the “surrender “ position or hands on a table and so forth. Was in law enforcement 31 years, never trained that way and not going to start now.
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Old 03-18-2020, 08:15 PM
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just face it, cof's aren't remotely revolver friendly in USPSA.
It's not fun when there are only 2 out of 60 participants are shooting revos. So, I can go back to limited, shoot my XDM with 19 rounds, reload once, and finish in the middle of my class, middle of my division, super senior. Not much fun! At 70 years old, in great shape, can't see crazy practicing to move up a notch or two.
Skills in revo shooting are tougher than other divisions. Therefore, more desirable when it all comes together for a great run! I'll take that one outta 4 or 5 anytime out of same ol same ol limited.
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Old 03-19-2020, 09:06 AM
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I recall an old saying in the USPSA crowd, "What do you call a group of USPSA members in a basement", "A whine cellar".
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Old 03-19-2020, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
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...The emphasis in past years has been on speed alone. Yet I see those minor shooters in my division going so fast that they miss targets and end up shooting to slide lock...
You think it would be painfully obvious, but the only answer you can give them when they ask how you keep beating them is, "It is impossible to miss fast enough to win."
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Old 03-24-2020, 01:43 AM
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think it would be painfully obvious, but the only answer you can give them when they ask how you keep beating them is, "It is impossible to miss fast enough to win."
The problem is at least at club level matches this is from my perspective false.
I see tons of people blast through stages with incredible speed but with lots of peripheral zone hits on target still end up with better scores than shooters only a bit slower but with more accuracy.
If I were king the top finisher would be the shooter who got 100% a zone hits the fastest.
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Old 03-24-2020, 11:01 PM
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What's competitive? Honestly, very few of us are "competitive" for the division win regardless of what we shoot. I shoot revolvers a fair bit in USPSA and while I would always choose my 8 shot gun at a major match, I spend a fair bit of time shooting my 625 at club matches. If your closest competitor is 10% away from you, it doesn't matter what you shoot.

I do shoot my 625 a fair bit at USPSA club matches, I'm less than 5% down in the overall as compared to my 8 shot minor gun. I would be down a bit more in my division than the overall, but that only matters if there is someone come close enough to me to race with.

I'd love to shoot the 625 in ICORE, but with power factors set the way they are it's really more of a 38 special game. If there was some form of major scoring, say reducing the time down by a half second for Bs & Cs, I'd probably switch to the 625 in Limited 6 division full time.
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Old 03-28-2020, 06:07 PM
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Pat JOnes:

Download your 625 for ICORE. I use to use 3 grains of Bullseye and a 230 grain RNL bullet. Those things were so slow I could watch them go down range but they were the most accurate loads I have ever shot.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:33 AM
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My 625 went back in the safe after the rule change, and i switched to autos. I need to get it out and do some shooting.
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Old 04-28-2020, 12:38 PM
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I've shot both a Model 15 and a 686 in local USPSA and IDPA-ish matches. At most, there would be two other revolver shooters there out of the competitors. Only one other shot a gun that could be considered a carry gun.

Sure, I came in last every time. One kid asked me if that bothered me. I said no, the reason I was in those matches was to work on my own skills. So the only person I was competing against was me. If I was doing better, then it was a win.
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Old 06-25-2020, 05:47 PM
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My friend is a retired DC cop that shoots USPSD with a 627 using 38 short colts ( faster to reload ). He is 70+ and is always in the top 3, revolvers and auto's shoot together, and scored together. He has a new 9mm revolver that the trigger are set the same at 6 pounds double action.
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