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Old 08-30-2020, 05:22 PM
Bogdan_Cluj Bogdan_Cluj is offline
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Question New guy getting into PPC (SSR) and IDPA Rev/Bug-R

Hi all,
I am planing on getting also into revolver shooting (don't have one yet). I am currently shooting PPC SSA (48 shots, longest distance = 25 yards) and IDPA with a CZ Shadow 1.

I want to get also into revolvers wiht a 4 inch revolver for PPC SSR at 25 yards and for IDPA, and a 2" snub nose for IDPA BUG.
The main problem (I am from Eastern Europe) is the availability of certain guns, and the price of them. I have read a lot of thread here, but I most likely will not find other models than the below presented ones, or they will be too expensive.

So from what I could find I have the following options:
4 inch:
-- SW model 10 (usually 10-6)
-- SW model 19 (usually 19-3) LE: originally I misspoke, i wrote: "27 (usually 27-3)"
-- SW model 67
-- SW model 586 - these are very rare in 4 inch, hard to find
-- SW model 686 - these are very rare in 4 inch, hard to find and double the price of the other ones
-- a Taurus that looks like SW model 27 but in stainless steel
-- Ruger GP100
-- Taurus 65 - this I can find NEW
-- I think I can get any SW that is in production NEW, but at about twice the price that is in USA, and before I play with revolvers for ... about I year I would not invest that much in something that I might not like of suck at.

And for 2 inch:
-- SW model 36
-- SW model 37
-- SW model 60
-- Colt Detective
-- Rossi (looks like a SW 36/60)
-- Taurus 85 - this I can find NEW
-- Taurus 605 - this I can find NEW

There are a lot of 6"guns out there on the European market, but I am interested in 4" and 2".

Could you please recommend some from the above lists, or rank them, or at least let me know what characteristics I should look for especially for the PPC SSR competition.

PS: I most likely also will be getting a SW 36 and a SW 10 from the historical point of view, iconic guns, but I am not sure if those are best/ok suited for the above described competitions.

Last edited by Bogdan_Cluj; 08-31-2020 at 05:10 AM.
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Old 08-30-2020, 07:03 PM
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For the 4" one I would choose the M67 and for the 2" one, the M60. The M67 with adjustable sights will help you get more points when it is sighted in to whatever load (ammo) you are using.

A M10 would work fine, but a disadvantage for target shooting, as the sights are smaller and harder to use quickly.

A M27 would work fine, but heavy and bulky for IDPA.

The other choices are too hard to find or too expensive. If you do run across a 586 or 686 that you can afford, that would be a very good (best) choice.

My opinion. Others might make other choices.
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Old 08-30-2020, 10:27 PM
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I would have to agree with Protocall, but would like to elaborate a little.

For a 4", the Model 67 is a good choice. If I remember correctly, the Model 67 is the stainless version of the carbon steel Model 15/Combat Masterpiece. Whatever you do, don't pass up the Combat Masterpiece!

I am not fully conversant with the IDPA BUG rules, but would a Model 36/60 be a handicap, with them being 5 shot revolvers? If you would be better served by a six shot revolver for BUG-R, you could look at a 2": Model 10/64, 13/65, 15/67, or a Ruger Service Six or Speed Six. Two inch Colt revolvers would be cost prohibitive. Another option could be a Rock Island Model 200.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:20 AM
Bogdan_Cluj Bogdan_Cluj is offline
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Thanks for the help so far.

4 inch:
I've made a mistake in my original post. I can find M19-3 (K frame) not M27 (N frame) as stated in the original post.
Between M19 and M10, should I go for M19? Is there any other difference between them except for the adjustable sights and the shrouded ejector? Is M19 heavier, bulkier, or has other drawbacks to M10 for the stated purpose?

Also the Ruger GP in 4" is pretty cheap (also the ones in 6"). It has the front sight "interchangable", I can swap it for a fiber optic for example. Is this a bad gun (compared with the other ones), should I not go for Ruger?

2 inch:
For some reason the Colt Detective (6 shot - the one with ramped front sight) have almost the same prices as the SW 36/60 models here (maybe 50$ more).

Are you saying that this is preferable to the 5 shot SW 36/60? I don't know anything about Colt revolvers (I was set on a SW) except that they are usually more expensive than the SW (indeed, yesterday I saw a bid for a 6" Python that sold for more than double for a 686 in 6"). But the smaller ones are pretty cheap/regular priced, and more easy to find.

PS: context: I am asking these stupid questions because there are no actual revolvers that I could look at, touch, let alone fire. I can only buy them online from Germany and someone to import it to my country - that is why they are so expensive. My shooting experience is from a local range where I shot a snubbie old Taurus in 38 Special and a Ruger Police Service Six 3 inch 357 Magnum. I liked them both .

Last edited by Bogdan_Cluj; 08-31-2020 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 08-31-2020, 06:13 PM
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The M19 would be a good choice. It has adjustable sights. It's not any bigger than a M10, except for a little bit of height added by the sights.

A Colt DS is a very good gun (at least the one I had). That or a M60 would both be a good choice. If near the same price, I would go with the Colt. I have had 4 Colt Pythons and I would take a 586 or 686 over a Python every time. Now I have 10 686s and no Pythons. My 686s all have a better double action trigger pull than any of the Pythons ever did.

Ruger is a quality gun. However, I don't care for them because they are bulky and heavy compared to the same size S&W, and the DA trigger pull can not be made as nice as a Smith.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:18 PM
Bogdan_Cluj Bogdan_Cluj is offline
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Thanks for all the advice.
I finally went with a Colt Detective Special, late edition with the ramped front sight. I found it relatively cheap, I've won a bid for 165 euros (180 dolars) in Germany. It will cost me the same amount to get it into my country, so about 400 dolars in total.
Probably when I'll go to pick it up from the guy who did the import I will buy also a M36 or a M60 just because I like them, for about 330 dolars.

For the 4 inch I finally took the courage got some more money and got a SW 686-6, from some Police department that kept it in the armory. It was checked and indeed is "new". I could have bought a M10 + a M19 + imported them for the amount that I paid for it, but I think it is worth it.

Thanks again for all the help, will get back in a couple of months with some feedback on the actual guns (it will take two months till I actually get them).

PS: here there are no 2 inch 6 shot SW M10/13/15 or in stainless version for some reason, that is another reason why I went with the Colt.

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Old 09-15-2020, 04:32 PM
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Those are good choices. You will soon have some of the best revolvers ever made.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:38 PM
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The best revolver Smith has ever made is the 586-4 and it's sexier looking twin 686-3. If you can score a 686-4 grab it and run with it, other dashes are good too.
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:08 PM
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With the desire to shoot in the PPC course of fire, I would suggest a 6" revolver. Either 4" or 6," you'll want a heavier revolver like the 686 or Models 27 or 28 (N Frames).

In the service revolver class, I did well with a 6" Model 14, but I later transitioned to a 586 6" revolver as it was heavier and held better through the rapid fire stages as well as all the other positions used in the PPC course of fire. If I was still on the police department, I would use the N Frame with a 6" barrel for PPC.

I was in Slovenia last summer and one of the local hunters had this nice Ruger PPC revolver in his collection. Perhaps one is available in your location in Eastern Europe.

Good luck!
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschuetzer View Post
With the desire to shoot in the PPC course of fire, I would suggest a 6" revolver. Either 4" or 6," you'll want a heavier revolver like the 686 or Models 27 or 28 (N Frames).

In the service revolver class, I did well with a 6" Model 14, but I later transitioned to a 586 6" revolver as it was heavier and held better through the rapid fire stages as well as all the other positions used in the PPC course of fire. If I was still on the police department, I would use the N Frame with a 6" barrel for PPC.

I was in Slovenia last summer and one of the local hunters had this nice Ruger PPC revolver in his collection. Perhaps one is available in your location in Eastern Europe.

Good luck!
In the US/NRA PPC SSR Matches SSR revolvers are limited to 4" barrel's. Open classes allow 6" barrels!

Any S&W Revolver with adjustable sights and that fits the barrel rules for you sanctioning body will be your best choice. I have a 686 and PC SSR that allow me to shoot Expert and at times SSR Master scores.

The M36/60 series will not work in a course of fire requiring timed 6 round stages!

All the best, Retired LEO and PPC guy!

Last edited by jjfitch; 09-16-2020 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Syntax
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Old 09-16-2020, 02:53 AM
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IDPA RULES:
8.2.7 Back Up Gun (BUG)
The Back Up Gun division is a required division for Tier 1 matches, and is an optional in Tier 2 – Tier 5 matches at the
Match Director’s discretion, BUG is reported as a single division.
The Back Up Gun division may also be used to create a specialty BUG only match. Match directors may prescribe
conditions for courses of fire such as the start condition, holster use, and reloads on the clock.
Handguns permitted for use in BUG are categorized into one of the following sub-categories:
A. Semi-Automatic BUG.
B. Revolver BUG.
C. Other Special Sub-Categories as defined by the MD.
8.2.8 Semi-Automatic BUG (BUG-S)
Handguns permitted for use in BUG-S must:
A. Be semi-automatic.
B. Be single action, double action, double action only, or striker fired.
C. Use .380 ACP or larger cartridges.
D. Barrel length of 3 1/2" or less.
E. The unloaded firearm with the heaviest magazine must weigh 26 oz. or less.
F. The firearm with the largest magazine inserted must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 6 1/2" x 4 5/8" x 1
3/8".
IDPA BUG-Revolver Rules:
8.2.9 Revolver BUG (BUG-R)
Handguns permitted for use in BUG-R must be:
A. Any revolver that uses .38 or larger cartridges with a rimmed case and is not loaded with moon clips.
B. The use of trimmed (shortened) ammunition is not allowed.
C. Barrel length of 2 1/2" or less.
D. The unloaded firearm must weigh 26 oz. or less.
E. Be loaded to the division capacity of no more than 5 rounds in the cylinder.
F. The firearm must fit in the IDPA gun test box measuring 6 1/2" x 4 5/8" x 1 3/8".
G. Revolver BUG Modifications: Revolver BUG must comply with all Stock Revolver features and modifications, and
equipment restrictions.

POINT 1: BUG-R only load 5; BUG-S load 6.
POINT 2: BUG is reported as a single division. You are not going to win BUG with a revolver.
POINT 3: BUG is not normally found in Tier 2- Tier 5 IDPA matches; may be a specialty match.
POINT 4: S&W K/L frames will not fit IDPA BUG-R limitations.
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