I want to sandbag a couple of revolvers I plan to sell. Since they are more target oriented, I feel showing the accuracy potential will be a plus.
The problem, my eyes are not good enough to hold at the same place on the target every time to shoot the best possible group.
I am not an experienced "sandbagger"(HA!) but will try my best. I am willing to try something other than a heavy sharpie mark, 2" or 3" orange dots, B8s... etc. Hell, maybe a B27 neck hold will work for me.
I shot this group with a SACS Pro last year and it was pure guess on my part to hold 6 o'clock
I then shot 25 and 15 yards with 230 ball (same gun) just using a barricade for support at 25 and no support at 15. I aimed dead center as best as my eyes could see.
I feel I could do better with sight alignment if I had 18 year old eyes.
I dont know what targets are used in the images above, but they cleaned out some old jail cells and found a bunch of these targets and gave them to me. The paper is fragile but if its not windy, they are good to go.
It's an established fact of accurate pistol shooting that sight alignment is far more important than the type of target chosen. Also, it's a fact that the human eye cannot focus on the sights and the target at the same time. To try and do so invites errors in sight alignment and (worse yet) trigger control.
Competitive target shooters are very familiar with the concept of "snatching a 10" to describe unintended wild shots that are way off.
But, to answer your question, the best target to establish the accuracy potential of a handgun (with its very short sight radius) is a large blank off-white target that is perfectly square or round.
By denying the eye a specific aiming point, you can focus on sight alignment, trigger control and follow through.
The subconscious will inherently keep your sight alignment hovering within the center area of the blank paper target.
This is similar to the way that peep sights work on a rifle: get the eye to focus on one critical thing and allow the subconscious to align that with a secondary reference.
As the trigger is released, you will also better be able to know if you jerked your shot.
I typically use an adhesive orange dot 3" in diameter, in the center of a paper plate. These are cheap and effective for me. FWIW, I am 60yo, wear glasses, etc.
I bought a Henry rifle and it came with the usual stag horn sights. I couldn't hit the ocean with it from 50 yards. I thought the gun was ****e until I changed the sights to optic green rear and optic red far. Immediately the gun became more accurate. Wayyyyyyy more accurate.
Other thing I learned about pistol shooting with my old eyes is that it helps to have glasses with the focal length set so the sights are in focus, not the target.
"what target does bullseye shooters shoot at?"
Bullseye shooters shoot matches at regulation targets. However, we frequently train using the aforementioned technique in my previous email.
Nevada Ed makes a good point about barrel length. Sight radius (the distance between the front and rear sight) has a tremendous impact on how critical exact and precise alignment of the sights needs to be. A short sight radius can increase shooter confidence, as it makes your hold appear more steady. However, tiny errors in alignment cause huge changes to point of impact. Worse yet, because the error is so small,the shooter is oblivious to it and assumes the gun or load is inaccurate.
A long sight radius magnifies percieved unsteadiness in your hold. My Hämmerli free pistol has a sight radius over 12" long. The slightest tremor looks huge. But, if you train with it, the offhand accuracy potential is phenomenal.
DeplurabusUnum makes a good point about glasses.
Bullseye shooters that need corrective lenses often get a special prescription for 20/15 vision as this aids in sharp acuity of the sight alignment.
I shoot competitions with ISSF targets which are similar to Bullseye targets so I believe. Also use a six o'clock hold under the black 10 to 7 scoring rings. Black sights on a black scoring circle is difficult to pickup. Therefore with adjustable sights and messing with POA and POI, I aim just below the black 7-10/x scoring circles.
For shooting groups and sighting in, I use a center hold with a target of my own design that is a black diamond that is 2" on each side, on a 1" grid. I use 11x17 paper for more leeway. It's easy to center the sights in elevation on the horizontal points of the diamond, and center the top point of the diamond for windage.
Round bullseye targets are round only for ease of scoring. They do not provide a good, distinct picture for sighting unless you are using aperture sights, and even then a diamond would be just as good. Oh, and a diamond is ideal for a scope with crosshairs.
Whatever you are using seems to be working for you. Most pistol shooters these days shoot at very close ranges for accuracy, which is a waste of time. Good for you for trying to give yourself and your equipment somewhat of a challenge.
Do not hold the revolver/pistol for the entire slow fire string, if that is what you are shooting. In a match it is 10 rounds in a 10 minute time limit for bullseye shooters. I rest my arm and my eyes between shots. One round every minute.I use the B.R.A.S.S. method that I was taught in the Corps. Breathe, Relax, Aim, Sight, Squeeze. Give it a try...........
I wish there was a target for Glocks that had the bullseye low and left...
Use a spotter for your aim point. We use to do that when qualifying with USGI M1911A1's many years ago. Shoot at the bullseye and see where your group is, then go the opposite direction and distance and put up a spotter in that location. If shooting low & left by 6 inches put up the spotter high & right by 6 inches. If done right you should be in the bull.
Since I am not a Glock shooter I have a question. Don't Glocks have adjustable sights?
Following up on a few vision related comments.
Besides making sure your lens prescription is up to date, there are a few other choices.
1) Get a dedicated pair of glasses to correct for 20/15 vision.
2) Get an accessory aperature attachment. Search for "Merit Eyepiece" and you'll see what I mean.
3) Get a dedicated pair of competition glasses such as those made by Knobloch or Neostyle.
Here are the targets I use for all my shooting, rifle and pistol.
When shooting pistols I use a 2 inch dot, rifles a 1in.
Just click on the second one and you can print the target.
For shooting groups and sighting in, I use a center hold with a target of my own design that is a black diamond that is 2" on each side, on a 1" grid. I use 11x17 paper for more leeway. It's easy to center the sights in elevation on the horizontal points of the diamond, and center the top point of the diamond for windage.
Round bullseye targets are round only for ease of scoring. They do not provide a good, distinct picture for sighting unless you are using aperture sights, and even then a diamond would be just as good. Oh, and a diamond is ideal for a scope with crosshairs.
I created my original diamond targets on a CAD system at work many years ago, and have just been photocopying my originals since then. That doesn't work well for emailing, so instead I just created some Powerpoint files that pretty much duplicate them. Attached are jpg versions, although lower resolution due to the Forum's downscaling.
You can upload the files to Office Depot's website and have them printed on 11x17 paper (ledger size). For 100 copies it's about $40, or $0.40 per sheet. (Make sure you specify black and white, it's cheaper. It's also cheaper to do it online than it is to have copies made at a store.) If you want them pre-punched with holes that adds another $4. Office Supplies, Furniture, Technology at Office Depot
Are you wanting to show a good grouping or a good score? If a good score, adjust your sights for a 6 o’clock hold with the bullets landing in the 10 and ring.
If shooting for groups, adjust your sights so the bullets impact several inches below the aim point. Groups tend to open when the shooter sees the holes in the target.
6strings comments are also spot on. Competitive shooters work most on sight alignment.
Following up on a few vision related comments.
Besides making sure your lens prescription is up to date, there are a few other choices.
1) Get a dedicated pair of glasses to correct for 20/15 vision.
2) Get an accessory aperature attachment. Search for "Merit Eyepiece" and you'll see what I mean.
3) Get a dedicated pair of competition glasses such as those made by Knobloch or Neostyle.
I'd add to that having an eye doctor who is a shooter is helpful. There is one in town here will tailor lenses to the type of shooting. Pistol, rifle, shotgun, etc.
FWIW, Bullseye shooters are usually most interested in what a pistol groups at 50 yards. Some of the custom 1911 (in .45 acp) gunsmiths will guarantee 1.5" groups at 50 yds and give you a grouping shot from a Ransom rest to prove the bona fides.
Anyway the target doesn't much matter. It's the group size that counts. You already produced a decent group, although most any revolver can produce a decent group at close range.
I doubt you will be marketing to the Bullseye crowd. 40 years ago, I knew a couple of guys who shot revolvers, but IMO, they really aren't well suited for sustained fire (timed fire: 2 strings of 5 shots each in 20 seconds per string; and rapid fire: 2 strings of 5 shots each in 10 seconds per string).
If it were me, I'd put the gun on the market, and furnish a copy of the top target (25 yards from sandbag) as an exemplar. I'd add a disclaimer about your eyesight and offer to reshoot on request. If they want a group shot at more or less than 25 yds, they can ask. Just my 2 cents.
I started shooting Bullseye style at 25 yards about twenty years ago regardless of the handgun. That includes 2" J-frame .38s. It takes much discipline and practice, but it forces the shooter to concentrate on shooting skills and good technique if you expect to hit anywhere near your aiming point.
I've not mastered this shooting style, but I'm working on it. Should you occasionally revert back to two-handed shooting, up close or at distance, you lose nothing in the way of skill for that type of shooting. In fact, you'll likely do better because of the bullseye discipline.
I've learned a few things along the way...
Shooting up close (fifteen yards or less) will only tell you that you are an excellent shooter, all guns are accurate, and so is the sorriest of ammunition. In other words, you really don't progress much, if any, when you only shoot up close. The old "gunfights only occur at close range" excuse is just that, an excuse for not trying to improve skills.
Shoot the smallest target comfortably possible, i.e., one that you can see clearly that doesn't cause eyestrain. I like a black square about 2" on a side, one square in the center of a plain piece of copy paper. This will vary from shooter to shooter, but I find that I shoot larger groups when "bullseyes" are larger. I've found diamonds and round bullseyes do the same, so I don't use them.
I went out today, the weather was nice and I was not in any hurry. It was windy and someone threw away the stand alone target backing so I had to make a prop out of 2X4s and rope.
While I guessed 25 yards based on range markings, I think it was over 30 yards.
my guns 14-5 and PPC Model 15 both tuned by Bob Jones. My handloads of swaged 148 HBWC.
I am a few years from age 60, I was diagnosed with dry eyes and I am always fighting irritation. To add even further issues, I have a scar over the pupil of my dominate eye. Sometimes I see a haze of 3 moons at night, 3 front sights, etc... but I always use the one in the middle (HA!)
I am not a "sandbagger" per say but last year I won my shoot club event with both 4" revolver and semi auto. The last shoot was Oct 2019 and our season starts May every year. That comp shooting gives me a 4"X6" window for 10 points, so I am not "Bullseyer".
With COVID, there was no phone calls this year and no shooting season ... Forgive me Father for I have sinned, I have not picked up a revolver since Oct 2019.
so this was my best attempt
I will start with the 14-5 in single action mode using a sandbag on a pedestal.
I changed my grip after the first two shots in the black and it moved my group up. It was hard for me to put my sights on the same spot (6 o'clock on the diamond) and my follow through was not consistent.
the PPC which is DAO has a brand new barrel that I dont think has a couple of hundred rounds through it. I cant find my paperwork (I put it in a safe place) but I last shot this gun in 2014 so I believe the barrel install was around that time frame. I forgot my settings with the Tri rear sight and my very first shot is at the bottom of the target. So I moved to position two... and it put the shots high. Damn, I am getting old. I just left it there.
I did try to use a B8 and just find it difficult to use that target to shoot a group. That is about the best I can do with my current eye sight. The guns are very capable of doing better. I am a little disappointed as I thought I would have been a tad better. I did take my time between shots, and I let time sink allowing time to blink and try to get the clearest/cleanest shot.
Even without targets to back you up , I seriously don't think you'll have a problem selling those smith's . Put them up for sale here and see how fast they go .
I'm over 60 and have a hard time with sights . I wear bifocals so it's hard to concentrate on both front and rear sights . I recently sent a couple of my semi's , a 4006CHP and a 4566TSW off to BMCM . He put an adjustable , a LPA , on the back and a fiber optic on the front . It's made a world of difference .
I am 68 and have a stigmatism in my dominate eye. I cheat now and have moved up to 15 yards. I am using a 25 yard bullseye to shoot at. It works for me...........
This is an older post- but to really sight a pistol in at point of aim I use a white piece of printer paper and a 3'' square piece of paper<color of choice--I use red orange or blue> in the middle. The front sight is the same width as the square at 25 yards and the rear sights are very easy to see.
For static target shooting, I like to sight the gun to where I rest the target ball on top of the front sight. I.e., top of front sight goes at the bottom of the round target. More precise than trying to put sight on middle of target.
I want to sandbag a couple of revolvers I plan to sell. Since they are more target oriented, I feel showing the accuracy potential will be a plus.
The problem, my eyes are not good enough to hold at the same place on the target every time to shoot the best possible group.
I am not an experienced "sandbagger"(HA!) but will try my best. I am willing to try something other than a heavy sharpie mark, 2" or 3" orange dots, B8s... etc. Hell, maybe a B27 neck hold will work for me.
I shot this group with a SACS Pro last year and it was pure guess on my part to hold 6 o'clock
I then shot 25 and 15 yards with 230 ball (same gun) just using a barricade for support at 25 and no support at 15. I aimed dead center as best as my eyes could see.
I feel I could do better with sight alignment if I had 18 year old eyes.
I dont know what targets are used in the images above, but they cleaned out some old jail cells and found a bunch of these targets and gave them to me. The paper is fragile but if its not windy, they are good to go.
thanks in advance
It might take a little work, but it will pay off...
In the simplest of terms, shoot the smallest "bullseye" that you can see well at 25 yards without eyestrain. Your groups will be smaller as a result. I find my groups to be larger when I use a large, round bullseye . Of course, you have to use good bench technique as well. The shape of the target probably won't make much if any difference. I like a 2" black square with a smaller white square in the center for a 6 o'clock hold.
Shooting at 25 yards will tell you a lot more about a gun's accuracy and your shooting ability than wasting your time shooting up close. Good luck-
Best Target to shoot a group...
Linear Mode
