Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:25 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?

Is a Letter of Authenticity is really a "Letter of Authenticity" as the title implies ?

To me, this implies the gun described in the letter has been verified as "authentic" when it has NOT been examined nor verified.

What the letter actually describes is: a certain model S&W, bearing as certain serial number, was shipped in a certain configuration (caliber, barrel length, finish, stock, etc.) to a certain person on a certain date. That's it !

A letter from Roy Jinks is surely the "gold standard" among collectors. However, contrary to what the name of the document defines, it is NOT a "Letter of Authenticity" as no such authentication process has taken place to prove the gun (for which the data has been requested) is, in fact, authentic ... or ... that it is even that same, specific, gun.

After reviewing advertised S&W firearms touting "Letter of Authenticity" as if the described gun (in the letter) had been examined and proven "authentic", to an industry / museum / expert, examination.

I suggest the title of the "Letter of Authenticity" be revised to something more logical and reasonable, e.g. Letter of S&W Historical Records or some such.

Let's put this up for a vote to chose a more logical name for this document that we all covet so dearly.

It seems that some sellers, seemingly selling "blue skies" use this "Letter of Authenticity" to imply the gun described in the letter is "authentic" when no such examination to verify such has been performed.

What do you think ? Suggestions ?
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 09:03 PM.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:45 PM
IWK2HT's Avatar
IWK2HT IWK2HT is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ontario
Posts: 146
Likes: 497
Liked 343 Times in 63 Posts
Default

I think it’s fine the way it’s, to may times we change things for what we think is better and it winds up destroying it. The letter has been fine up till now so why would you want to change it.
If you read the letter and have the gun in your hand and it doesn’t match the way it came from the factory then you can see it’s not Authentic. No?
Ted
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 06-12-2018, 12:57 PM
MisterC MisterC is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 48
Likes: 33
Liked 76 Times in 18 Posts
Default

I certainly don’t see any issue as is. It obviously depends on how much value you place on the letter. They are after all firearms and not some multi million dollar piece of art. As the above poster states, if the letter doesn’t match.....

Really not that much different than buying a used vehicle and finding the window sticker folded in glove compartment. If the sticker indicates a blue car and the one your sitting in is painted pink, it may have been altered.
  #4  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:04 PM
monsai52's Avatar
monsai52 monsai52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 53
Liked 154 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Model3sw,

You along with everyone else who has any intrest in collectable S&Ws knows exactly what the Letter of Authenticity is and what it indicates about any particular gun. It doesn't seem to me that it makes any sense to get all wound up about what S&W calls there historical records letters. Just another "tempest in a teacup" semantics argument.

Best regards,
The Following 7 Users Like Post:
  #5  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:08 PM
22hipower 22hipower is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Dallas-Fort Worth
Posts: 1,217
Likes: 1,732
Liked 1,682 Times in 555 Posts
Default

"Letter of Authenticity" seems as good a name as any. I usually order them to find out where the gun originally went and when. However, sometimes the letter confirms how "authentic" the gun I'm looking at is. Sometimes it is impossible to tell if the finish is original, whether the barrel has been cut, sights modified/replaced, or what the original stocks were. A letter can't tell you if the gun was refinished but it can tell you that a nickel gun didn't leave the factory with that finish. Letter of Authenticity works for me.

Jeff
SWCA #1457
  #6  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:32 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 4,242
Likes: 210
Liked 2,213 Times in 1,307 Posts
Default

I thought it was simply called a Factory Letter or Paper from Jinks?
Where would one go to get a true "Letter of Authenticity"? What would
it entail?
__________________
Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:43 PM
monsai52's Avatar
monsai52 monsai52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 53
Liked 154 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
I thought it was simply called a Factory Letter or Paper from Jinks?
Where would one go to get a true "Letter of Authenticity"? What would
it entail?
About the closest thing I know to a true "Letter of Authenticity" for any gun, would be a Kopec letter on a Colt Cavalry or Artillery SAA.

Best regards,
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 06-12-2018, 01:56 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

In a legal forum ... authenticity of a physical object must be accompanied by expert testimony and report of examination defining standards to which examination and tests have been performed and documented authority as expert on a particular item.

Roy, is without a doubt, "the" expert on S&Ws, Roy's qualifications are undisputed, however, in absence of physically examining that S&W object (of which he is expert) ... cannot affirm the item is factually "authentic" unless physically examined by him.

This is not just a protest of the name of just the document, albeit the title of the letter is erroneous.

May just be a play on words to some, may not matter to others, but in a court of law that "Letter of Authenticity" would not stand up after it is determined the item being authenticated was not physically examined (and to what specific standards) to verify authenticity.

Roy's letter verifies that the factory records indicate, a gun of a certain description, type and configuration, bearing a specific serial number, was shipped from the factory on a certain date, to a certain person and place ... but NOT ... that the gun has been examined and proved to be "authentic".

Think of a demilled USAF that had been destroyed and legit USAF numbers placed on another Airweight pre-model 12. The person who requests a letter on that gun, with the genuine USAF numbers, will get a Letter of Authenticity solely because the serial number is listed in the records.

Think of all the collectors that purchased Tom Haas Colt SAAs that came with Colt Letter of Authenticity ?
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 10:20 AM.
  #9  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:06 PM
moralem moralem is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,546
Likes: 134
Liked 2,925 Times in 876 Posts
Default

This is like finding a problem to fit a solution.....for a problem that does not exist........whose going to court anyway.........sorry you asked for an opinion.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:14 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 2,646
Likes: 1,892
Liked 3,111 Times in 1,353 Posts
Default

I have a couple of easy and obvious issues to today's rant...

First is that n-o-b-o-d-y calls it a "letter of authenticity", pretty much everyone calls it a Factory Letter and has been calling it as such for as long as I can recall.

Second issue is that even if you found some magical group of extreme authority that had to ability to authenticate a handgun... you simply must realize that unless/until you then MARK it with an indentifier from that entity, the entire exercise is moot.

When a collectible baseball card is authenticated, it is sealed in a display case that has a trackable code and damn difficult to counterfeit identifier on it, typically a hologram of some nature, that ties the authenticating organization to the actual physical item.

So then, with a handgun, would you like it SEALED and thus forever here after untouchable? Or would you rather engrave it? Etch it?

Better answer...
Let's just keep on keepin' on as we did yesterday before this crisis.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 06-12-2018, 02:36 PM
monsai52's Avatar
monsai52 monsai52 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 67
Likes: 53
Liked 154 Times in 31 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by moralem View Post
This is like finding a problem to fit a solution.....for a problem that does not exist........whose going to court anyway.........sorry you asked for an opinion.
Exactly, just a silly trolling argument for argument's sake. I'm not bitting any more.

Best regards,
  #12  
Old 06-12-2018, 04:24 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

The OP does have a point. If, and it's a big if.
The letter is portrayed as a " letter of authenticity ".
I have read that already, so it's possible to happen.
Given the OP description and what others have posted about the criteria required to authenticate a particular item.
I would prefer and consider a historical letter from Mr. Jinks as a letter of origin.
It's how it started its existence, nothing more, nothing less.
Does it match that original description, that's up to whoever's looking at the gun.
Just a simpletons .02.
Have a great day.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:33 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 4,242
Likes: 210
Liked 2,213 Times in 1,307 Posts
Default

I just pulled out my latest correspondence from Mr.Jinks, and do not see
"Letter of Authenticity" any place on the paper. It is dated May, 24,
for a '96 sent to Jersey City PD. Thanks Mr. Jinks.
__________________
Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:45 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwirl View Post
The OP does have a point. If, and it's a big if.
The letter is portrayed as a " letter of authenticity ".
I have read that already, so it's possible to happen.
Given the OP description and what others have posted about the criteria required to authenticate a particular item.
I would prefer and consider a historical letter from Mr. Jinks as a letter of origin.
It's how it started its existence, nothing more, nothing less.
Does it match that original description, that's up to whoever's looking at the gun.
Just a simpletons .02.
Have a great day.
Exactly.

Do we have and lawyers in the house ? (this should be interesting).

This all started because of a VERY suspicious M13 Aircrewman presented to me within the past few months accompanied by a S&W letter, just like most of all of the many I have, only this one had in same type style (as subject line) "Letter of Authenticity" or in the lower note section after signatures where the author would code the letter as to who typed it an code for subject, etc.

Parchment was correct, signature (I "think" it was signed by Don) correct, raised perforated stamp over / near signature. I thought, perhaps, this was a new style letter ... never before recalling those words on any of Roy's letters.

None of my own letters from Roy are "titled" in such a manner, I found that odd but ... ok, but it could be.

It could also be that the letter was "Doctored" to add the words, "Letter of Authenticity" or it could have been printed by accident.

Then this AM pulling a new request form from the S&WHF website I see it listed as "letter of authenticity", I just HAD to ask.

Not a rant, but a matter of incorrect "terminology" that too often finds its way in to the bill of goods an unsavory seller might include in a fevered sales pitch, in the (all too familiar) style of a Coney Island carnival barker.

We've all read and heard some incredible sale pitches but someone adding anything to a S&W letter, including the words "Letter of Authenticity" when it was not there before, would be a new low. Not a surprising low, but a new one, anyway.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 12:55 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:55 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
I just pulled out my latest correspondence from Mr.Jinks, and do not see
"Letter of Authenticity" any place on the paper. It is dated May, 24,
for a '96 sent to Jersey City PD. Thanks Mr. Jinks.
I never said Mr Jinks.
You need to reread my 2nd and 3rd sentence.
  #16  
Old 06-12-2018, 05:59 PM
hardknocks's Avatar
hardknocks hardknocks is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: South Florida
Posts: 365
Likes: 121
Liked 173 Times in 68 Posts
Smile Yikes

Might have to get the letter of authenticity authenticated.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #17  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:08 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
Exactly.

Do we have and lawyers in the house ? (this should be interesting).

This all started because of a VERY suspicious M13 Aircrewman presented to me within the past few months accompanied by a S&W letter, just like most of all of the many I have, only this one had in same type style (as subject line) "Letter of Authenticity" or in the lower note section after signatures where the author would code the letter as to who typed it an code for subject, etc.

Parchment was correct, signature (I "think" it was signed by Don) correct, raised perforated stamp over / near signature. I thought, perhaps, this was a new style letter ... never before recalling those words on any of Roy's letters.

None of my own letters from Roy are "titled" in such a manner, I found that odd but ... ok, but it could be.

It could also be that the letter was "Doctored" to add the words, "Letter of Authenticity" or it could have been printed by accident.

Then this AM pulling a new request form from the S&WHF website I see it listed as "letter of authenticity", I just HAD to ask.

Not a rant, but a matter of incorrect "terminology" that too often finds its way in to the bill of goods an unsavory seller might include in a fevered sales pitch, in the that (all too familiar) Coney Island carnival barker style.

We've all read and heard some incredible sale pitches but adding to a S&W letter the words "Letter of Authenticity" would be a new low. Not a surprising low, but a new one, anyway.

This is why I said I consider them a " letter of origin ".

The authenticity comes from owners or most likely sellers.
I also think the letters from Mr. Jinks are honest and truthful to the best of his ability.
But he didnt evaluate the gun, someone else did that most likely has a dog in the show.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #18  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:10 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hardknocks View Post
Might have to get the letter of authenticity authenticated.
Now, that's funny. ^^^^^^
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:13 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
I have a couple of easy and obvious issues to today's rant...

First is that n-o-b-o-d-y calls it a "letter of authenticity", pretty much everyone calls it a Factory Letter and has been calling it as such for as long as I can recall.

Second issue is that even if you found some magical group of extreme authority that had to ability to authenticate a handgun... you simply must realize that unless/until you then MARK it with an indentifier from that entity, the entire exercise is moot.

When a collectible baseball card is authenticated, it is sealed in a display case that has a trackable code and damn difficult to counterfeit identifier on it, typically a hologram of some nature, that ties the authenticating organization to the actual physical item.

So then, with a handgun, would you like it SEALED and thus forever here after untouchable? Or would you rather engrave it? Etch it?

Better answer...
Let's just keep on keepin' on as we did yesterday before this crisis.
If "n-o-b-o-d-y" includes the S&W Historical Foundatiom, you are sadly incorrect.

Here it is ... on the S&WHF website ... to request a "Letter of Authenticity"
Smith & Wesson Historical Foundation - Letter Process - Insuring that the rich history of Smith & Wesson will continue for generations to come

And the form is titled likewise: http://www.swhistoricalfoundation.co...quest_form.pdf
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 09:10 PM. Reason: added date
  #20  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:30 PM
MisterC MisterC is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 48
Likes: 33
Liked 76 Times in 18 Posts
Default

I think I have a “Letter of Authenticity”. Let me take a look. Yep, says “Letter of Authenticity”. Mine was mailed from a Nigerian prince so I know it has to be good.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:39 PM
TomkinsSP's Avatar
TomkinsSP TomkinsSP is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2017
Location: E of America's Great Lake
Posts: 2,173
Likes: 1,172
Liked 3,118 Times in 1,232 Posts
Default

I spoke to Lamont when I picked up my latest purchase, Abraham Lincoln's Registered Magnum. He told me that his father would mail my "Certificate of Authenticty" once he returns from choir practice at Aunt Ester's church. Good enough for me.
__________________
Certified Curmudgeon
  #22  
Old 06-12-2018, 06:57 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterC View Post
I think I have a “Letter of Authenticity”. Let me take a look. Yep, says “Letter of Authenticity”. Mine was mailed from a Nigerian prince so I know it has to be good.
Those have to be signed by Eddie Murphy or they are not valid !!! (Ref: Coming to America)
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
  #23  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:05 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
Those have to be signed by Eddie Murphy or they are not valid !!! (Ref: Coming to America)
Bingo, that's what's missing.
A comedian's signature.

But if spending big bucks, I'd prefer Mr. Jinks still.

I get your point your model3, its valid to me.
No matter what, it still boils down to "buyer be ware".
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:10 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,590
Likes: 3,701
Liked 12,810 Times in 4,433 Posts
Default

Pretty sure everyone is overthinking thos. It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 06-12-2018, 08:51 PM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 917
Likes: 221
Liked 709 Times in 374 Posts
Default

For what it's worth Smith & Wesson's website calls the firearm history request a "letter of authenticity". The OP is correct, the letter doesn't really authenticate anything other than how the gun originally shipped.

However, I don't know what an actual factory authentication could do that a diligent buyer couldn't also do. An in person inspection should be able to verify if the finish is original, if the grips are the original style and fit appropriately, barrel is correct length, etc... I've never heard of anyone coming up with a fake S&W. I know there were early 20th century European knock offs, but anyone with any familiarity with S&W's should distinguish one of those. They could change the name but in the end it would be same thing.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #26  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:06 PM
one eye joe's Avatar
one eye joe one eye joe is online now
US Veteran
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: New England
Posts: 3,442
Likes: 2,919
Liked 2,602 Times in 1,116 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IWK2HT View Post
I think it’s fine the way it’s, to may times we change things for what we think is better and it winds up destroying it. The letter has been fine up till now so why would you want to change it.
If you read the letter and have the gun in your hand and it doesn’t match the way it came from the factory then you can see it’s not Authentic. No?
Ted
I AM IN TOTAL AGREEMENT, IWK2HT. ALL YOU CAN "AUTHENTICATE" IS HOW IT WAS CONFIGURED, AND WHEN AND TO WHOM IT WAS SHIPPED.....

I HAVE FOOLISHLY INVESTED IN LETTERS FOR 2 OF MY FAVORITE M629s. AFTER CUTTING MY TEETH ON COLT HANDGUNS, AND SHOOTING 1911s, PYTHONS AND DIAMONDBACKS, EXCLUSIVELY, FOR 20 YRS, I STARTED READING ARTICLES BY ELMER KEITH. I BECAME ENAMORED OF THE .44 MAGNUM CARTRIDGE. SHOWING BRAND LOYALTY---I YEARNED FOR A COLT ANACONDA. I JUST DID NOT FALL IN LOVE, WHEN I FINALLY GOT MY HANDS ON ONE. I JUMPED SHIP FOR A LIGHTLY USED, M29 S&W......

I REALLY WAS DRAWN TO THE STAINLESS MODELS, FOR THEIR EASE OF MAINTENANCE AND DURABILITY OF FINISH. I ACCUMULATED 3, ALL USED, THAT SEEMED INTERESTING. I HAD NO BOXES, AND FEW CLUES, AS TO WHAT THEY WERE......

I HAD PURCHASED A 4" M629 THAT WAS SCRIPTED AS A "MOUNTAIN GUN". I DON'T KNOW WHAT I EXPECTED TO FIND OUT, BUT I LETTERED THE OTHER TWO. OF COURSE, AT THIS POINT IN TIME, I KNEW VERY LITTLE ABOUT S&Ws. THE 8 3/8" M629, HAD AN UNFLUTED CYLINDER AND TURNED OUT TO BE A CLASSIC HUNTER. THE 3" TURNED OUT TO BE JUST AN ORDINARY PRODUCTION GUN--NOT A LEW HORTON, ETC. THE INFO ON THE LETTER WAS 90% BOILER PLATE, OTHER THAN SHIPPING DATE AND DESTINATION......

THIS IS NO BIGGIE, AND IMHO, HARDLY WORTH THE COST AND WAIT ON A MODERN GUN (FROM 1980 TO PRESENT)--UNLESS THERE WAS AN EXTRAORDINARY MOTIVE. (TO DOCUMENT SOMETHING LIKE AN ASHLAND M617 WOULD BE A VALID EXCEPTION). THE STANDARD CATALOG, AND A QUERY ON OUR FORUM, WOULD PROBABLY PROVIDE ENUFF INFO TO SATISFY THE OWNER OF A NEWER GUN........

PICS OF THE 3 GUNS THAT I REFERENCE IN THIS POST, APPEAR BELOW.....
Attached Thumbnails
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?-20236_106228906059272_5763166_n-jpg   Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?-1935872_103150699700426_5083703_n-jpg   Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?-10391666_106026999412796_5736717_n-jpg   Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?-1935872_103150646367098_4185496_n-jpg  
__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Last edited by one eye joe; 06-12-2018 at 10:26 PM.
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:16 PM
DocB's Avatar
DocB DocB is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Middle Georgia
Posts: 2,279
Likes: 4,435
Liked 5,399 Times in 1,286 Posts
Default

It's actually a Shipping Date Letter which (as we all know) can have very little to do with the actual date of manufacture or birthdate of the gun. I have a Smith that shipped nearly 30 years after it was manufactured. Guns that laid around for a decade or more before shipping are quite common. . .especially in the 1930's.
__________________
Dr. B
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #28  
Old 06-12-2018, 09:33 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,590
Likes: 3,701
Liked 12,810 Times in 4,433 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
For what it's worth Smith & Wesson's website calls the firearm history request a "letter of authenticity". The OP is correct, the letter doesn't really authenticate anything other than how the gun originally shipped.
You do know that the factory doesn't send out the "factory" letters, right?
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:14 AM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monsai52 View Post
About the closest thing I know to a true "Letter of Authenticity" for any gun, would be a Kopec letter on a Colt Cavalry or Artillery SAA.

Best regards,

Yes, my sentiments, exactly. Kopec seems to be "the" man on the Colt SAAs, especially the U.S. models. He requires a physical inspection even if it is one he had previously authenticated at some time in the past.

In the past I had send my early 1860 Colt Army to Herb Glass, Sr. to have him authenticate it (at that time in the mid 1990s) as it lettered shipped to Governor's Island Arsenal NYC, early 1861 (less than 2 weeks after the attack on Fort Sumter) but was void of any US Markings and, it was period nickeled (or "tinned" as Herb Glass stated). The revolver presented in outstanding condition and had no evidence of U.S. markings being removed.

Both Herb Glass and Col Pate affirmed that the first 2 US Orders of the 1860 Army, were not U.S. Marked only subsequently orders were Inspector marked. Herb also affirmed the "tinning" process was likely done at one of the N.Y.C.'s many qualified gunsmiths / gun stores (e.g. SH&G, MWR, etc.) and was usually done for Officers (as the enlisted man could usually not afford this) for the function of a protective coating as opposed to an embellishment for cosmetic purposes. NYC, at that time, was the hub of the gun industry in regard to craftsman and outlets to purchase and / or enhance (engrave / plate, etc).

He further explained that the Colt Factory (at that time) when rebuilding after a major fire, did not yet have the means or equipment to perform the plating process.

Was well worth the money I spent sending it to Herb to eliminate the doubt or conjecture of why it was "not" U.S. marked.

Mind, this was in the pre-internet days when data was not available at the touch of a button and any books on Colt 1860s I bought and read did not address this topic.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 10:01 PM.
  #30  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:17 AM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB View Post
It's actually a Shipping Date Letter which (as we all know) can have very little to do with the actual date of manufacture or birthdate of the gun. I have a Smith that shipped nearly 30 years after it was manufactured. Guns that laid around for a decade or more before shipping are quite common. . .especially in the 1930's.
My two factory Chromed, 1905 / 4th models have serial numbers consistent with being manufactured the 1930s however not shipped until 1960 to a N.Y.C. S&W distributor. Coincidentally, both were shipped to the same dealer on the same day.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #31  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:27 AM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skwirl View Post
Now, that's funny. ^^^^^^
It "is" funny but can be well within reason. A letter you see could be a forgery. How many times has one of us purchased an old S&W with a poor copy of a S&W letter and / or a S&W letter (or copy) having the name of the person it was sent to, surgically removed with a razor blade ?
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
  #32  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:46 AM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 917
Likes: 221
Liked 709 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
You do know that the factory doesn't send out the "factory" letters, right?
What's your point? The Smith and Wesson website refers you to the SWHF for a "Letter of Authenticity"....
  #33  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:06 AM
kwill1911 kwill1911 is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waterloo, TX
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 300
Liked 1,782 Times in 500 Posts
Default

I understand Sal's concern. It is pretty common in the Colt world and increasingly common in the S&W world to see unscrupulous sellers using the terminology to mean the letter authenticates the gun for sale. It does not, as most of us understand. It merely authenticates the serial number. A recent auction had an early Colt Government Model for sale and hyped the two digit gun because it had a "letter of authenticity" showing it shipped to a famous shooter of the day. The gun was completely bogus but there was a debate on another forum about the letter "authenticating" the gun.
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #34  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:00 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 3,523
Likes: 2,023
Liked 2,769 Times in 1,473 Posts
Default

It's not a "Letter of Authenticity" it's a Factory Letter , based on the serial number , stating when the firearm shipped and the pertinent details of that firearm as at that time .
Nothing is "Authenticated" in the letter , it just states what shipped on what date.
Gary
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #35  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:19 PM
kwill1911 kwill1911 is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Waterloo, TX
Posts: 1,496
Likes: 300
Liked 1,782 Times in 500 Posts
Default


The factory is not involved these days. It comes from the S&W Historical Foundation. Reading is fundamental.
__________________
Kevin Williams SWCA1649 HF208

Last edited by kwill1911; 06-13-2018 at 12:21 PM.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #36  
Old 06-13-2018, 12:24 PM
reddog81 reddog81 is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: IA
Posts: 917
Likes: 221
Liked 709 Times in 374 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
It's not a "Letter of Authenticity" it's a Factory Letter , based on the serial number , stating when the firearm shipped and the pertinent details of that firearm as at that time .
Nothing is "Authenticated" in the letter , it just states what shipped on what date.
Gary
That's the whole point of the thread. S&W and SWHF should call it what it is. Here's the quote from the SWHF website "The SWHF has partnered with Smith & Wesson to issue letters of authenticity on S&W firearms. Click on the link provided to access a PDF file of the Letter of Authenticity Request Form. Print the form, complete the information requested, and mail the form with your payment to the address indicated. You will receive your letter via return mail."
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #37  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:11 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,590
Likes: 3,701
Liked 12,810 Times in 4,433 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
What's your point? The Smith and Wesson website refers you to the SWHF for a "Letter of Authenticity"....
That was my point . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #38  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:50 PM
Club Gun Fan's Avatar
Club Gun Fan Club Gun Fan is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 1,692
Liked 5,409 Times in 1,612 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DocB View Post
It's actually a Shipping Date Letter which (as we all know) can have very little to do with the actual date of manufacture or birthdate of the gun. I have a Smith that shipped nearly 30 years after it was manufactured. Guns that laid around for a decade or more before shipping are quite common. . .especially in the 1930's.
Doc
It's impossible to tell the date of manufacture. A frame doesn't get a serial number until it's nearly completed. It would be different if it was given a number as soon as it came out of the forge. I'd like to hear about your Smith that shipped 30 years after it was manufactured and tell me how you know when it was manufactured.
__________________
Don Mundell S&WCA LM614
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #39  
Old 06-13-2018, 01:54 PM
Club Gun Fan's Avatar
Club Gun Fan Club Gun Fan is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 4,103
Likes: 1,692
Liked 5,409 Times in 1,612 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
Exactly.

Do we have and lawyers in the house ? (this should be interesting).

This all started because of a VERY suspicious M13 Aircrewman presented to me within the past few months accompanied by a S&W letter, just like most of all of the many I have, only this one had in same type style (as subject line) "Letter of Authenticity" or in the lower note section after signatures where the author would code the letter as to who typed it an code for subject, etc.

Parchment was correct, signature (I "think" it was signed by Don) correct, raised perforated stamp over / near signature. I thought, perhaps, this was a new style letter ... never before recalling those words on any of Roy's letters.

None of my own letters from Roy are "titled" in such a manner, I found that odd but ... ok, but it could be.

It could also be that the letter was "Doctored" to add the words, "Letter of Authenticity" or it could have been printed by accident.

Then this AM pulling a new request form from the S&WHF website I see it listed as "letter of authenticity", I just HAD to ask.

Not a rant, but a matter of incorrect "terminology" that too often finds its way in to the bill of goods an unsavory seller might include in a fevered sales pitch, in the (all too familiar) style of a Coney Island carnival barker.

We've all read and heard some incredible sale pitches but someone adding anything to a S&W letter, including the words "Letter of Authenticity" when it was not there before, would be a new low. Not a surprising low, but a new one, anyway.
Sal
I think you should be asking Roy Jinks these question. He doesn't monitor this part of the forum. You could always send him a letter and post his reply here after. You do have his address. don't you?
__________________
Don Mundell S&WCA LM614
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #40  
Old 06-13-2018, 02:06 PM
kraynky's Avatar
kraynky kraynky is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 1,075
Likes: 3,899
Liked 1,489 Times in 614 Posts
Default

OP: What are ya? A lawyer or sumthin? Just kidding.

While what you say make sense, matching a serial numbered gun to the letter does "Authenticate" that that serial numbered gun came from the S&W factory in certain fashion, where it began it's journey and when. But it does not do much more. History of ownership would require other documents. Post manufacturing modifications would require yet another set of documents (IE Lew Horton).

I guess to me it Authenticates that S&W built the gun and when & where it became a used gun.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #41  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:10 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kraynky View Post
OP: What are ya? A lawyer or sumthin? Just kidding.

While what you say make sense, matching a serial numbered gun to the letter does "Authenticate" that that serial numbered gun came from the S&W factory in certain fashion, where it began it's journey and when. But it does not do much more. History of ownership would require other documents. Post manufacturing modifications would require yet another set of documents (IE Lew Horton).

I guess to me it Authenticates that S&W built the gun and when & where it became a used gun.
I'm a traffic crash investigator and a licensed auction house owner. Just trying keep the records straight.

Also, just yesterday, I had been contacted and approved to work over the new version of the Blue Book of Gun Values for American Antique Firearms for the 2019 (2nd Edition).

In the introductory pages for S&W will accurately present how and where to write to obtain a S&W Shipping Confirmation letter (I won't post it as a Letter of Authenticity") and what to expect in that letter.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #42  
Old 06-13-2018, 03:16 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amulesass View Post
Read the comments, the real question is were did you get that so called letter of authenticity terminology from because it isn't coming from S&W and Mr. Jinks. That sounds like a made up gun broker term to hype it.

The letter is for personal use. If you ever get a gun that makes it to Christie's they'll use their own experts. And would not care if your letter was sign by Jesus.

That whole business of trying to turn that letter into some kind of authenticity reads like a scam. Unfortunately some give credence to it in making a purchasing decision.

Once again, that letter simply serves for personal use and curiosity.
And really only saying ye or nay if Smith made it.
I agree and I disagree on some points. Yes, Christie and Sotheby's would authenticate an item of value and remain liable for the accuracy ( i think via Insurance Company) for many years to come .

Sadly, the larger gun auction houses (which I will leave nameless but you all know which ones) seem to sell the blue skies primarily with facts that are OK, if they happen to be available as the lesser objective. (or so it seems). Reading some of the descriptions reminds me of reading ads for used cars having high mileage where the build up in the ad is focused to turn your thoughts away from the high mileage (and tide marks on the interior panels ...LOL)
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 06:25 PM.
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #43  
Old 06-13-2018, 06:43 PM
gmborkovic gmborkovic is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: VA & SoFL
Posts: 4,242
Likes: 210
Liked 2,213 Times in 1,307 Posts
Default

Dont buy a story, buy a shooter, and enjoy it.
__________________
Mike 2796
SoFo Bunch member
  #44  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:01 PM
Skwirl Skwirl is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 67
Likes: 2
Liked 67 Times in 35 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by model3sw View Post
I agree and I disagree on some points. Yes, Christie and Sotheby's would authenticate an item of value and remain liable for the accuracy ( i think via Insurance Company) for many years to come .

Sadly, the larger gun auction houses (which I will leave nameless but you all know which ones) seem to sell the blue skies primarily with facts that are OK, if they happen to be available as the lesser objective. (or so it seems). Reading some of the descriptions reminds me of reading ads for used cars having high mileage where the build up in the ad is focused to turn your thoughts away from the high mileage (and tide marks on the interior panels ...LOL)

I'll agree on this also.
I just read an add for a gun, claiming to be 1 of 1500 made.
The price is a premium also, and rising.
Multiple problems though.
1st, the gun is 1 of 155 made.
No research on their part.
2nd, wrong product code.
Again no research by the seller. I'm new and it only took me 10 minutes to find the correct info.

But, yet there running the price up based on an outright lie.


To be fair, there is no letter included with that gun. But they are using the premise of it.

When the sucker that buys it does get it lettered from S&W or the distributor that sold it confirming without a doubt, it's not what he thought it was.

Where does the backlash go? S&W? The distributor?

Again, buyer be ware.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #45  
Old 06-13-2018, 07:24 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

BTW ... here are some lines excerpted from sold Gunbroker auctions.

these are just a few I pulled up:

1. "Factory Roy Jinks Letter Guaranteeing Authenticity"
2. "ROY JINKS LETTER OF AUTHENTICITY INCLUDED IN SALE"

Just something to think about.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 08:24 PM.
  #46  
Old 06-13-2018, 09:22 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Club Gun Fan View Post
Sal
I think you should be asking Roy Jinks these question. He doesn't monitor this part of the forum. You could always send him a letter and post his reply here after. You do have his address. don't you?
Don,

Is Roy the one to make the decision or would it go up for a vote to the Board of Directors of the S&WHF who now controls these letters ?

When did the application for the S&W letter change to "Request for Letter of Authenticity" ? Somehow I don't remember seeing that a year or two back, perhaps I'm mistaken about the exact time frame but it seems that the S&WHF now calls the Application a "Request form for Letter of Authenticity" a seller would not be doing anything unreasonable by stating he has a "letter of Authenticity" if that is what S&WHF calls it.

It just seems the words Authenticity is getting wrongly popularized and thrown around in advertising too liberally and flagrantly ... when it is NOT truly, a Letter of Authenticity at all.

The S&W Letter is a true asset to us all. Calling it something it is not will do nothing but cheapen the image of it as time goes on unless redefined, accurately, for valuable asset it truly is.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #47  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:21 PM
LittleCooner's Avatar
LittleCooner LittleCooner is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Northeast Alabama
Posts: 772
Likes: 1,011
Liked 930 Times in 379 Posts
Default

I agree with you Sal, the SWHF needs to reconsider what they are calling these historical documents. After reading this thread for the past few days, I agree, the word Authenticity should not be used in the letter. I am not a collector, but I endorse the re evaluation of labeling these letter "authenticity"
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #48  
Old 06-13-2018, 10:31 PM
Muss Muggins's Avatar
Muss Muggins Muss Muggins is offline
Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: southeast Missouri
Posts: 9,590
Likes: 3,701
Liked 12,810 Times in 4,433 Posts
Default

I gotta tell y'all, I have no idea what to do with a group of people that will complain, loudly and adamantly, about what to call a letter researched from historical production and shipping records, by a group headed by the factory historian, which details the exact configuration of the firearm you own when it was shipped, the date is was shipped from the factory, and the destination, and potentially the number of like firearms in the same shipment, along with a generalized history of that particular series of like firearms, as well as anything else interesting that the historian might come across during the research . . .

Dumbest argument I've read since magazine/clip . . .
__________________
Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Last edited by Muss Muggins; 06-13-2018 at 10:32 PM. Reason: added a thought
  #49  
Old 06-13-2018, 11:38 PM
model3sw's Avatar
model3sw model3sw is offline
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: May 2006
Location: South Florida, USA
Posts: 2,674
Likes: 5,429
Liked 2,823 Times in 1,078 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
I gotta tell y'all, I have no idea what to do with a group of people that will complain, loudly and adamantly, about what to call a letter researched from historical production and shipping records, by a group headed by the factory historian, which details the exact configuration of the firearm you own when it was shipped, the date is was shipped from the factory, and the destination, and potentially the number of like firearms in the same shipment, along with a generalized history of that particular series of like firearms, as well as anything else interesting that the historian might come across during the research . . .

Dumbest argument I've read since magazine/clip . . .
You missed it, all together. The content of the letter is undisputed but it does not authenticate the item, just states what the old records show.

Doesn't it do something to you when someone misrepresents something for sale ? Usually, you, I and another guy won't get caught but some poor son of a sailor, will.

If you were about to plop down some serious cash for a USAF M13, based solely on (and accepting) a Letter of Authenticity to truly be what is is named, you'd think differently.

Wisdom comes from experience and education. Fear is not an option.
__________________
ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

Last edited by model3sw; 06-13-2018 at 11:47 PM.
  #50  
Old 06-14-2018, 12:04 AM
b_san's Avatar
b_san b_san is online now
SWCA Member
Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ? Is a "Letter of Authenticity" really a Letter of Authenticity ?  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: MN
Posts: 1,376
Likes: 1,505
Liked 1,420 Times in 553 Posts
Default

I'd just like to note that I've just wasted 10 minutes of my life, that I'll never get back, reading through what is the dumbest and most pointless thread I've read on this site. I'm guessing the OP's cable was out tonight so he wasn't able to do his normal arguing with the guy on the TV and had to come up with something else on short notice.
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Should I get a letter of authenticity for this gun? chadk7 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 11 02-13-2017 02:03 AM
Letter of Authenticity antonede1 New Members Introduction 15 04-10-2014 10:43 PM
re Letter of Authenticity Nick43 S&W Hand Ejectors: 1896 to 1961 13 08-09-2012 09:40 PM
Letter of Authenticity TANZER S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 1 05-29-2011 04:07 PM
Letter of Authenticity ? Dodgethis1 The Lounge 7 09-18-2010 07:27 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:42 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
© S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2018
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)