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Old 07-18-2016, 10:05 AM
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Default S&W buys Knife maker

Just in the last couple days, Battenfeld Technologies division of SWHC buys Taylor Brands Knife-maker. This includes Schrade, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, & Imperial brands. Taylor is a long time knife-maker for S&W issues. Price was $85 million. (That's a lot of knives).
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:15 AM
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Is this good or bad? Seems like lately every time a company is sold the quality goes down sad.
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:54 AM
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Most of those brands are now made in China aren't they?
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:56 AM
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Is this good or bad? Seems like lately every time a company is sold the quality goes down sad.
John

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No worry about quality declining as Taylor has been building cheap quality knives for decades.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:19 AM
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No worry about quality declining as Taylor has been building cheap quality knives for decades.
^^^This^^^
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by J.R.Bauer View Post
Is this good or bad? Seems like lately every time a company is sold the quality goes down sad.
John

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Schrade, Uncle Henry, Old Timer, & Imperial brands... I actually think all of those are now made in China, so I'm not sure how much further their quality could fall.
Perhaps they're negotiating to have Pakistan or North Korea make their product instead of China?
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Old 07-18-2016, 12:04 PM
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The quality of the Schrade Old Timer line has deteriorated markedly, from what I've observed, since the original company went under (assisted by Wal-Mart) and Taylor bought the brand. Some if not most of the Old Timers are now stainless. I bought the good old ones for the fine 1095 carbon steel.
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Old 07-18-2016, 02:54 PM
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S and W "collector" knives will soon be available on late night TV. Oh goody!
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Old 07-18-2016, 03:49 PM
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The conventional wisdom over at BladeForums holds that current Taylor brands quality is pretty decency. I have one Taylor Old Timer stockman about ten years old, so it must have been within a couple of years after Taylor acquired the Schrade brands. Fit and finish are not the best, but it has held up pretty well, more than enough knife for the usual EDC tasks. It would not surprise me if more recent production was pretty decent.

I say that because I have seen some very nice Rough Rider traditional knives, not related to the Taylor brands, but representative of the quality that Chinese manufacture is capable of producing. However, neither Rough Rider or Taylor offers carbon steel, AFAIK. For that, you have to pretty much go to Case (CV) or Great Eastern (1095).
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Old 07-18-2016, 09:15 PM
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I collect knives and taylor knives are on the lowest end of the totem pole I wish S&W would contract there knives to Buck,Case or GEC KEEP IT ON OUR SHORES
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Old 07-18-2016, 10:07 PM
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Yeah heard it myself tonight. Also stated that S&W profits up 31% for the 2016 fiscal year.
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:34 PM
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Yeah heard it myself tonight. Also stated that S&W profits up 31% for the 2016 fiscal year.
Quality needs to head in the same direction.
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Old 07-19-2016, 10:13 AM
30-30remchester 30-30remchester is offline
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A wise man once said that a man that carries a cheap knife should tape a quarter to the handles. That way if it was lost, the person who finds it will at least have 25 cents.
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Old 07-19-2016, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
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A wise man once said that a man that carries a cheap knife should tape a quarter to the handles. That way if it was lost, the person who finds it will at least have 25 cents.
Cheap knifes are "good enough" for what I need them to do and if I lose one... "meh"

Good ones stay at home. WAY back in the day I had a Schrade similar to a Buck Hunter. I thought it was superior to the Buck. No idea what ever happened to it...
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Old 07-20-2016, 06:48 AM
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About a week ago I was in a local Walmart store and made my way back to the sporting goods area of course. Just browsing the area
since there were no .22s in stock I spotted a bunch of blister packs of
two small Schrade Old Timer pocket knives on hangers for just under
$15 for the pair. I have never been overly impressed with Schrade
quality in the past but these looked very good through the plastic of
the package and for under $7.50 each?? I bought a package and I
have been really impressed at the quality for the price. Blades are
stainless and very sharp. Package says made in China but thankfully
the word China isn't on the knives. The clean machining on them
seems to say "CNC". Sold by Taylor these two at least seem to be a
good step above the old "Old Timers" with their quick rusting carbon
steel blades and only average fitting.
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:31 AM
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Little off topic but IIRC, the same folks that owned S&W also owned a lock company... does this mean that we can expect to see integral bayonets on future S&W's?
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Old 07-20-2016, 07:59 AM
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Most people don't understand about China knives.RR ,Taylor etc.Knives look great & work well"at first"! The heat treating SUCKS! Quality Control,give me a break!! First run is usually great...then it goes downhill! I'm retired & sharpen knives...won't buy China....I'll spend more for made in USA or even save & go custom.Buy the best & cry once!!! I've delt with China factory reps.personally....they handled a product I was representing...we stopped using them!
Jim
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:26 AM
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I didn't know Battenfield was a Smith and Wesson company but then I live under a mossy rock....

I quit carrying a pocket/game knife a while ago. Switched to a Havalon surgical scapel folding game knife and recently got a bigger Benchmade scapel utility game knife.

When the blade gets dull, you remove it and snap on a new blade. The blades on both brands are surgical stainless, precision honed and stupid sharp. Havel Company is a leading producer of medical scapels for surgery.

They are located in Cincinatti, Ohio FYI and have a website you can direct order from.

They make a fantastic field processing knife, I can field dress a deer in half the time I used to.

Benchmade copied the Havel design, I think the blades interchange (not sure). Benchmade offers a larger utility type folder.

Just a little heads up for those that hunt, like me.
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Old 07-20-2016, 08:56 AM
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Don't really get why S&W would spend $85 million on a Company that makes cheap knives in China. Those brands are from yesteryear and while they were once considered descent working knives I know of no one who buys them anymore.

Personally, if S&W wanted a knife division they would have been better off starting up a high end knife Company and making them in America with the tidy sum of $85 million. It seems to me that the knife makers that make the high end products are the ones that have a huge demand, charge high prices and usually have a back-log of orders. The brands like Uncle Henry, Schrade, Imperial and Old Timer are sort of "has beens" and now that they are all made in China - they are low end knives and are a "dime - a - dozen".

While I personally do prefer the old fashioned style traditional pocket knives over the more modern flip out and locking folders, most people these days don't. Either S&W knows something I don't or they need a better CEO. I suppose time will tell, but it always seems that when a Company like S&W gets into a sub-line, it never really does well. I seem to remember them playing around with bicycles, knives, holsters and other lines that were never a real success.
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Old 07-20-2016, 09:42 AM
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Like most manufacturers, S&W is all about profits and China bolsters that bottom line (thanks NAFTA)..... Cheap products sold at inflated prices....

I stated elsewhere that the bi-pod and gun rug that shipped with my new XVR was made in China, the tag in plain sight on the gun rug...I cut it off btw.

As a side note, the Japanese economy is in dire condition. Used to be (40 years ago) Japanese goods were considered second rate cheap stuff. Not any more. Japan progressed in quality (and wages) and is now in the toilet for it.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:24 PM
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10-4 on Japan. When the American market wanted cheap, they made cheap. When the American market wanted quality, they made quality.

I was incredulous 45 years ago when my sergeant in the AF told me of guns he had made by B. C. Miroku. He said they were great quality. NFW I thought.

Today, I own a few. Brownings.
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Old 07-20-2016, 12:32 PM
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If they had stayed with cheap, they probably would not be in the pickle (economy wise) they are in today. I think China has learned from that...stay cheap, sell high and avoid US import duties and prosper.

A little common sense by the government in the form of import tarriffs on Chinese made hard goods would help the imbalance greatly, but no, the government lets the Chinese dump here and then they apply stifling tarriffs to anything we send there.

It need to be tit for tat and it isn't.
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Old 07-20-2016, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 30-30remchester View Post
A wise man once said that a man that carries a cheap knife should tape a quarter to the handles. That way if it was lost, the person who finds it will at least have 25 cents.
I was duck hunting with a guy that just bought a new A5 Browning Not Belgian made and after the first shot it kept jamming on him I gave him a dollar bill he asked what that was for I told him to put it in the barrel and throw it in the river that way he could say he lost something man was he pissed I just kept shooting them with my old 870.
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Old 07-20-2016, 11:13 PM
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This sounds like great news for S&W. I have a very different opinion than most of you. I love USA made knives and will always gear toward buying something stamped USA over anything made in China. But honestly Schrade was never a top dollar brand to begin with. Back when they were made here they were considered budget knives compared to the Buck and Puma hunting knifes they competed with. I really do think that the modern day Schrade's are much better quality and have better fit/finish than ones I have seen from 20-30 years ago. They are also made of better steels and scale materials.

I understand some are still upset about how they make them but in order for Taylor to have kept those brands alive (Henry, Schrade, Old Timer) they had to make that transition. A lot of other manufacturers have done the same to stay in business and even some of the older guys like A.G. Russell have had to contract work overseas.

These knives are still designed here though–and to me that's partly important because some of my favorite Schrade knives have all been from their current lineup (which didn't even exist 20-30 years ago). I personally have enjoyed using and owning the Schrade SCHF51, and the SCHF42. They are excellent bushcraft knives. I'm still wanting to get my hands on an SCHF43 (Jessica-X) at some point. Check out their offerings if you haven't seen what they've been up to the last couple of years. Might surprise some of ya'll.
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Old 07-26-2016, 03:13 PM
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Well it can be good news if the quality comes up. I have had a couple S&W Chinese made knives and I am not too impressed. Taylor makes cheap stuff IMO. if you want Schrade, go look for USA made stuff. I have 4 small lockbacks with their 100 year mark on them just before they went out of business, I also have a couple Schrade Scrimshaw fixed blades.. I stay away from Chinese stuff, but i do like the Boker Kalashnikov(sp) autos from Blade HQ. Dollar for dollar, they are a sound everyday auto. Beyond that I buy USA made Piranah(sp), Microtech and Benchmade, all available at blade HQ, and all automatic. Just my opinion
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:10 PM
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Not everything that comes from China is cheaply made, even if the price is inexpensive, or cheap. I have a Boker Automat Kalashnikov 74 in my pocket every day - it's a 2.5" switchblade of very high quality as far as I can tell. Made in Taiwan - okay, that's not China, yet.
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Old 07-26-2016, 04:35 PM
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In Ken Warner's great 1976 book, "The Practical Book of Knives"
he points out that although we love to discuss (argue?) steels, shapes, etc., the knives made today, even the cheap ones, are of far better quality than the ones the mountain men used to roam the West.

In the middle of this picture is a Schrade Uncle Henry that served as my work desk knife for about a quarter-century before I retired. It's flanked by a Case that I keep in the pen/ruler/junk box on my computer desk, and the world's best pocket knife for me, a Swiss Army knife with scissors.

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Old 07-26-2016, 04:46 PM
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I have seen in more than one buyout the infusion of capital. Companies/divisions that the corporation doesn't much like get starved of capital. New owners frequently put capital into new acquisitions. Therefore, this may be very good news for the companies bought, and their future customers.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:03 PM
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Slightly off topic but they just bought Crimson Trace for like 95 million. That's almost 200 million in purchases this month. Gun sales must be good.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:18 PM
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Maybe should have bought Buck.
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Old 07-27-2016, 09:40 PM
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I think the marketing guys have assumed control at the mother ship of self defense delight. Buy a packaged M&P with a logo marked knife and matching serial number in a limited edition WITH a Crimson Trace, and from a company or two that you control in any color you want and POOF...instant market share & profits. But, what do I know? I still like blue guns that go round.
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Old 07-28-2016, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISCS Yoda View Post
Not everything that comes from China is cheaply made, even if the price is inexpensive, or cheap. I have a Boker Automat Kalashnikov 74 in my pocket every day - it's a 2.5" switchblade of very high quality as far as I can tell. Made in Taiwan - okay, that's not China, yet.
I use one of these every day myself and have for years. I consider them to be great for a modest price
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:13 AM
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I think what we may be missing is S&W spent $95 million on this company, and then yesterday announced they are buying Crimson Trace laser's. I don't know how much that one was but I'd bet quite a few millions also. The reports stated S&W bought from "cash on hand". This is also not long after having bought Battenfield Technologies (Midway manufacturing arm). SWHC is getting to be pretty diverse, but within the shooting/sporting goods arena. Keep an eye on the stock values.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:34 AM
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Slightly off topic but they just bought Crimson Trace for like 95 million. That's almost 200 million in purchases this month. Gun sales must be good.
I'm guessing gun sales have been really good. They probably realized they were going to be targeted for a takeover/buyout. They needed to spend some cash and/or rack up some debt to make themselves a less attractive target for some large conglomerate to gobble up.
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Old 07-28-2016, 04:28 PM
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Yes, all of those brands are sadly made in communist China who has bought a share of influence over our government. The knives made under these various and sundry are rapidly improving in quality. Think Japan in the 1960s.
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Old 07-30-2016, 09:59 AM
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I did not read all the comments, but the one good thing is that maybe these fly by night companies that keep trying to sell me cheap S&W knives will quit calling. I can now get crappy knives straight from Smith!
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:22 AM
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I packed an old Schrade Golden Spike for years. It cleaned deer, upland game and fish. All without a hitch. Of course this knife was purchased in the 1970's and I still have it, and the leather case with auxiliary sharpening stone that originally came with it. I guess nobody told it that it was an unserviceable piece of junk.

All I can hope is Smith & Wesson will take the newly purchased knife lines and build a respectable line of knives worthy of the blue badge and our loyalty.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:31 AM
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Wonder if they'll start putting locks on the knives?



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Old 12-10-2016, 01:09 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
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For those of you who say Schrade was always of sub par quality, I urge you to find an old Shrade Walden pocket knife and look it over. I have a few, and they are of top quality in my opinion.
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Old 12-10-2016, 03:59 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregintenn View Post
For those of you who say Schrade was always of sub par quality, I urge you to find an old Shrade Walden pocket knife and look it over. I have a few, and they are of top quality in my opinion.

The pre-chinese Schrades/Old Timers were good quality working knives...Who knows what the blades are made of now??......recycled car bumpers & soup cans?.......
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Old 12-15-2016, 10:18 PM
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The Taylor made S&W branded/packaged knives I have experienced in the past year are way below par in my opinion, with the most serious flaw being the often reported(see utube) linerlock locking and freezing past the mid butt of the blade, rendering the knife inoperable. Until you use a tool to fix this, you have a fixed blade! It is curious to me how the Taylor made Schrade branded/packaged knives do not share this flaw? I stopped buying S&W knives as a result. I am not saying they all are bad, but every linerlock I tried had the same issue. YMMV
The knives I tried were all on the low end of the price scale. No excuse for that type of poor performance though, and many other brands I have tried , including the above mentioned Schrades , are nice knives. Hopefully, as the parent company, S&W can bring some of their QA process to their lower end knife lineup.
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Old 12-31-2016, 12:48 PM
chaparrito chaparrito is offline
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I carry a big old Schrade 3 bladed stockman most days. Wonderfully patinaed blades. We were in Tractor Supply when my son said "hey look, Schrade knives". I pulled mine out of my pocket and had him compare it to a new stockman. Even through the blister pack you could see the fit and finish on the new one didn't compare. Pins sticking out instead of polished flush with the handle, big gaps where the Delrin meets metal, etc. Very sad.
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Old 12-31-2016, 01:21 PM
Lee's Landing Billy Lee's Landing Billy is offline
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Regarding post 22's remark. What is a "tat"? Where do you go to exchange it for that other thing?
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