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Old 10-18-2017, 12:54 PM
Stargater Stargater is offline
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Does anyone know anything about these knives?

Or the heat treat used in these knives?

I saw them on Amazon from ABCD Sales and bought one advertised as having 440C stainless steel. The one I got from Amazon, however, was 7Cr17, the Chinese equivalent of 440A, which is two steps down in quality.

I'd bought several of the HS knives a few years ago, and these were made of 440C, and I liked them. But I gave them as gifts, so I actually had no chance to try them. When I saw that these were supposed to be 440C, I decided to pick one up for me.

Now I'm thinking of returning the knife for several reasons. First, they advertised it being 440C and then shipped the 7Cr17. Second, 440A is notoriously problematic unless the heat treat is excellent, and so far, Cold Steel is the only company that has made outstanding 440A (Night Force, Pro-Lite and Recon One models all were made from 440A), and they were so wickedly sharp that some reviewers actually nicked themselves while unpacking the knives.

What kind of heat treat do these knives generally undergo in the manufacturing process? Does anyone have any good/bad stories about this knife? It's essentially a sharpened crowbar. It has no balance to speak of, but I do have a knockoff knife made by Frost (even the cameo pattern's the same), but it's either made with 420 or 440A steel. It's easy to sharpen, but it's clearly a "junk" knife. It's been used for weeding, chipping ice from car wheel wells, chopping small trees and branches and other odd jobs. What I'm trying to say is that even the knock-off el cheapo knife is worth every cent of the $12.99 (including shipping).

Also, the knife would be almost impossible to break, and the grips have hex screws, like the HS.

For cutting boxes and for self defense, the knife could be used for such on terms of strength, but it's a bit blocky for that. I'm just not a huge fan of Chinese steel or heat treat. Cold Steel makes some of its knives in China, but they have people there who constantly check the heat treat process and settings. Put local Chinese workers and managers in charge and heat treat tends to go down the tubes. (They don't want it good, they want it Tuesday. It's very much like Japan before Deming, and I'm old enough to remember how junky anything was with a "Made In Japan" sticker. Toys and gizmos were made of painted tin. They even had tin calculators that came with a stainless steel stylus. You could add, subtract and divide all without batteries! But they would jam on occasion.

So if anyone knows anything about this knife, please post. They're still being advertised as being made with 440C, and I wish they'd stayed with it and raised the price a bit. Cheap 440A is awful and I'm sorry S&W went in that direction.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:45 PM
opoefc opoefc is offline
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There are 1,000s of knives out there on the 2ndary knife market with S&Ws logo on them that are not official S&W authorized knives. Taylor Cutlery, licensed maker of S&W knives in the past, made up many knives with S&W logos for selection by S&W of which knives would be sold by S&W in their accessory/knife catalogs. Those not selected by S&W, wound up on the internet and with large knife dealers. Many were made in China. You may have one of them, if you did not buy it from S&W. Ed.

Last edited by opoefc; 10-24-2017 at 08:46 PM.
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Old 10-30-2017, 11:04 PM
Stargater Stargater is offline
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Thanks for the information. It explains a lot.

Does Taylor Cutlery watch the heat treat on their blades? The old S&W Homeland Security knives made with 440C were pretty good, but lately someone at either S&W or Taylor decided to go with 7Cr17 as their standard steel. As previously mentioned, that's two notches down from 440C. Recently I purchased one advertised as 440C, but when I got it, I discovered it was made with 7Cr17. Luckily, I only paid $29.95 for it (including shipping). There are a lot of cheap 440A out there with almost zero heat treat, and the bloody things won't take an edge. Since 7Cr17 is basically 440A, I wondered how good it is in the S&W knives. The S&W knives are made in China, but so are the knives made by Cold Steel -- and their knives are made with great heat treat! (It all depends on the managers.) If 440A is heat treated well, it's a good steel. If not, it's terrible.

Has anyone used one of the new knives? If so, does it seem to perform okay?

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Old 11-02-2017, 03:36 PM
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I can only say that Taylor Cutlery has been purchased by American Outdoor Brands, the parent company of Smith & Wesson. I believe you still can obtain their fairly extensive catalog of cutlery & tools from them. It may contain more info. on their heat treating processes, etc. Ed.
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