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Old 06-25-2016, 08:08 AM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Default Need some advice involving stove pipe malfunction please...

Good morn fellas. New to the forum and wanted to ask y'all about a lil issue I'm having with my new m&p 15-22. On purchase of the weapon my ffl took the flash hider off per my request as I wanted to use my suppressor with this rifle. I figured I needed to break the rifle in with high velo ammo. So, I break out the stash of fed automatch and start banging away. I have a couple stove pipes per mag where the rifle chambers a fresh round but the empty is classic stove pipe crushed between the bolt and barrel. This is w/o suppressor. So, I try suppressed with cci standard velo of 1070 fps and the gun runs flawless of 2 mags. So my question to y'all is why will my gun run suppressed with sub sonic/standard velo ammo but had difficulty with 1,200 fps automatch? I fist figured ejector issue but if that was the case it would do it with all ammo correct? The extractor is in also.
Thanks,
Eddie
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Old 06-25-2016, 09:18 AM
Inusuit Inusuit is offline
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I don't have an answer to your specific question, but all my .22 firearms have preferences as to the ammunition that is accurate and functions reliably.

Just thinking while typing, I wonder if the lower velocity ammunition gives the bolt a bit of additional time to fully eject the fired case while the high velocity causes the bolt to reciprocate fast enough to catch the empty? Again, just a guess on my part.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:59 AM
patrickd patrickd is offline
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Some autoloading .22's cycle more reliably with plated .22lr ammo. Try some and see if it cures your problem. I have a Beretta pistol that just won't feed regular lead ammo, but never malfunctions with plated ammo.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:27 AM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Thanks guys for the thoughts and opinions and please keep em coming. I have some Winchester copper plated 1,280 fps and some CCI mini mag hp I think 1,280 fps to try out when I get the chance. I just thought it strange that it cycled better/more reliably with 1,070 fps ammo vs hi velo 1,280 fps. Guess I figured and hoped,since I have a decent stash, that auto match would cycle 100%. Like I said I get 2-3 stove pipes out of a 25 rd mag.
Thanks,
Eddie

Last edited by Whitearrow; 06-25-2016 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 06-25-2016, 11:36 AM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Oh yeah Patrick the 100% CCI standard is lead round nose 1,070 fps.
Thanks,
Eddie
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Old 06-25-2016, 01:37 PM
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One of my 15-22 will not run with Federal Automatch (stovepipe stoppages) while the others are good with it. Try some of the other ammo you mentioned.

Some auto loading rimfires can be very ammo finicky, I just use my Federal stuff in other firearms. (My S&W SW22 Victory loves Automatch)
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Old 06-25-2016, 02:32 PM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Well fellas got an update of sorts. I just stepped out and ran a 25 rd mag of Winchester super-x copper plated hp 1,280 fps thru w/o a hitch and seemed to shoot "harder" if that makes sense ha! I'm gonna run a mag of mini mag hp thru it maybe later this evening and see what happens. Do these 15-22's require a break in before running 100% with all ammo?
Thanks,
Eddie

Last edited by Whitearrow; 06-25-2016 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 06-25-2016, 08:03 PM
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RedNeck Jim RedNeck Jim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post
Do these 15-22's require a break in before running 100% with all ammo?
Thanks,
Eddie
There is no break in period and good luck finding a 22 autoloader that functions 100% with all ammo. 22lr is notorious for having some ammo that just wont fire.

Also it is a misconception that the gun functions best with high velocity ammo. All I shoot is subsonic, mostly CCI standard velocity & Norma Tac-22. That being said, some guns prefer some ammo better than others. Many guns will shoot whatever you feed them. So if you are curious, try lots of ammo but otherwise find something you know your gun likes & buy by the case.

Curious if your ffl removed the flash hider properly by clamping the barrel & not the receiver? Failure to clamp the barrel has damaged many a 15-22. You are probably good to go as the gun works well with some ammo.
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Old 06-25-2016, 08:51 PM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Redneck my ffl said he was "putting it in a vice" and after I got on this forum I started questioning whether things were done right for no real reason other than my OCD ha! I've checked everything I know to check to see if anything is bent or outta whack due to NOT putting the barrel in a vice to unscrew the fh. The bolt rail line up with the slots in the barrel and the bolt rail don't appear bent and the barrel notch centers up with the raised middle of the bolt if viewed from underneath with the mag removed. Is there any other way to tell if the barrel was twisted? I just shot a mag of cci mini mag hp and had just 1 malf but it appeared to be a mag malf as the bullet was nose down and bent.
Thanks guys and keep the opinions coming and if somebody has a way to telling if the barrel was twisted that I haven't mentions please post up,
Eddie
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Old 06-25-2016, 09:21 PM
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my 15-22 never liked Federal automatch until I installed my Volquartsen extractor. Now it goes through them without a hitch. BTW my 15-22 is not suppressed.

Gary
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Old 06-25-2016, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post
Redneck my ffl said he was "putting it in a vice" and after I got on this forum I started questioning whether things were done right for no real reason other than my OCD ha! I've checked everything I know to check to see if anything is bent or outta whack due to NOT putting the barrel in a vice to unscrew the fh. The bolt rail line up with the slots in the barrel and the bolt rail don't appear bent and the barrel notch centers up with the raised middle of the bolt if viewed from underneath with the mag removed. Is there any other way to tell if the barrel was twisted? I just shot a mag of cci mini mag hp and had just 1 malf but it appeared to be a mag malf as the bullet was nose down and bent.
Thanks guys and keep the opinions coming and if somebody has a way to telling if the barrel was twisted that I haven't mentions please post up,
Eddie
Ask him how he put it in a vice. Did he use vice clamps on the barrel or did he use a standard Ar-15 vice block that clamps the upper in a vice. If he twisted barrel in the upper it could cause the ejector to be misaligned. Also the barrel nut on mine wasnt very tight from the factory to begin with, so its possible the barrel could be lose enough that the ejector doesnt get a hold of the casing properly each time.

Gary

Last edited by noscivic; 06-25-2016 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 06-25-2016, 09:48 PM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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So there is no way just by looking at it to say whether the barrel was twisted in the poly receiver? I'm 90 miles away from that ffl and he prolly wouldn't remember it anyway ha! Would the feed ramp not be at 6 o'clock and such if twisted and the bolt rails wouldn't line up in the barrel slots would they?
Thanks,
Eddie

Last edited by Whitearrow; 06-25-2016 at 09:51 PM.
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Old 06-25-2016, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post
So there is no way just by looking at it to say whether the barrel was twisted in the poly receiver? I'm 90 miles away from that ffl and he prolly wouldn't remember it anyway ha! Would the feed ramp not be at 6 o'clock and such if twisted and the bolt rails wouldn't line up in the barrel slots would they?
Thanks,
Eddie
It would be hard to tell because the ejector only needs to be off by thousands of an inch and thats pretty hard to tell by eye. One thing to try is search ejector mod or ejector tweak and look at the ejector which is attached to the barrel in correlation with the bolt carrier. There are a few posts on here about that.That is one way to see if has turned a small amount. The other thing is I'm sure your gunsmith will remember you cause your probably one of a very few plastic AR's that he has worked on, call him. You can also look for marks on your barrel to see if it looks like it was put in blocks and then into a vise.
Gary

Last edited by noscivic; 06-25-2016 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 06-26-2016, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitearrow View Post
So there is no way just by looking at it to say whether the barrel was twisted in the poly receiver? I'm 90 miles away from that ffl and he prolly wouldn't remember it anyway ha! Would the feed ramp not be at 6 o'clock and such if twisted and the bolt rails wouldn't line up in the barrel slots would they?
Thanks,
Eddie
Eddie, the barrel has two metal alignment tabs that slide into two grooves on the inside of the upper receiver. The upper on a 15-22 is polymer & if you clamp the receiver, and not the barrel, while removing the barrel and or flash hider those plastic groves can get deformed or outright stripped. If the grooves are deformed & they are now wider than spec, the barrel can float around a bit. This can cause all sorts of issues.

Only way to tell if yours was damaged is to remove the barrel & inspect the upper. I highly suggest every 15-22 owner get a barrel nut wrench & barrel vise. Other failures can be caused by the barrel nut being too loose so it is a great tool combo to own. Also much easier to clean the chamber area with the barrel removed. I got my tools from Tacticool22. He now sells on Amazon too.



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Old 06-26-2016, 03:19 PM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Thanks Jim for the explanation. So would the barrel spin if stripped either during removal of the fh or after? Would the hand guard be torqued one way or the other if things got twisted when the fh was removed?
Thanks,
Eddie
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Old 06-26-2016, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
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Thanks Jim for the explanation. So would the barrel spin if stripped either during removal of the fh or after? Would the hand guard be torqued one way or the other if things got twisted when the fh was removed?
Thanks,
Eddie
I don't claim any expertise in these matters but just working from some experience, listening to a lot of good folks here... plus some common sense.

Common sense tells me if the grooves on the upper are widened (deformed) where the barrel seats itself, then the barrel is no longer oriented into the same spot all times & could most certainly rotate around its axis a bit. Since extraction & ejection is so important and the tolerances are so tight for this to happen properly, IMO any barrel shift of a few thousands of an inch could easily cause failures.

That is why it is CRITICAL that one clamp the barrel when removing it or the flash hider. This is especially true on many new rifles, as my personal experience with my 15-22s showed that the factory seems to torque the barrel nut too tight. I no longer need the barrel vise, as I just tighten mine a bit. Can't say what that torque specifically is but my barrel nut never comes loose plus I check it every so often.
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Old Yesterday, 06:11 PM
PeglegJones PeglegJones is offline
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Whatever you do get the Volquartsen extractor. I had an ejector issue when mine was new, stove pipes and crushed cases with just about any ammo. It went back to S&W.
Now I shoot Norma Tac-22, FED Automator and CCI Minimates without a hitch.



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Old Today, 08:29 AM
Whitearrow Whitearrow is offline
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Thanks for the tip peg leg. What did s&w say was wrong with your 15-22 to cause the stovepipe malfunctions? The only ammo mine occasionally stovepipe malfunction is fed automatch so far.
Thanks,
Eddie
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Old Today, 11:51 AM
PeglegJones PeglegJones is offline
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Well, paper work said "repaired ejector"...that means they adjusted the alignment of the ejector in the bolt. Apparently a common issue for years. Anyway, after that and installing the Volquartsen extractor the thing throws casings 20 feet.
Currently shooting Automatch, Norma Tac-22, CCI MiniMags and CCI AR-Tactical without any issues. Going to try a few others soon. Norma seems to give best 50 yard groups for these old eyes. Going to start some 100yd experiments.

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