After reading 15 pages of THIS, I am going to brave the snow and cold here in western colo. and go shoot my new 15-22 so I can send it back as soon as possible, Because SUMMER is just around the corner and I would like it to be a RELIABLE companion by then!!!! LOL!!!

I had no idea that such a slight difference can cause so many problems, thanks.

I don't understand how they can make the same type of ammo but it varies by so much.

LifeInPa,

Beck and Chuck are 100% right.

But that really does not explain the 15-22. Flat out... the 15-22 is a disappointment, IMO. Feed ramps cracking off... extractors snapping.... ejectors failing.... and accuracy on par with a slingshot.... And all this from a rifle with a "match grade barrel" for $500.... puuuuuulllllleeeeze. You have every right to kick and scream over what can properly be described as a *** compred to competitors. You gotta like the style enough to put up with the horrible substance. If not, trade it.

Poor accuracy?

Mine is more than happy to keep 90% rounds in a 9" circle at 50 yards with a 4MOA red dot sight. Standing. Non supported. Rapid fire at (say) 100 rounds per minute.

I've not benchrested the critter.

-- Chuck

I am disappointed with the reliability, but the accuracy is impressive. This is the first firearm I ever owned, and only the third or forth I have shot. Even with those handicaps I can put more than a few shots into the center of a target from 30 yards with just iron sights. I am hoping that my last visit to the range was just a fluke. Maybe I had too much lubrication on the internal components and the cold weather helped it fail. I will clean the rifle up and take it out the next time we have 50 F weather.

The only thing I'm dissapointed with so far is the accuracy. I have not had any other problems yet. Not one FTF or FTE. But time will tell. My stock 10/22 easily outshoots my 15-22. But my 10/22 is not nearly as fun, nor does it make a good traing aid for my standard AR. All in all, I love the 15-22, but It could use some serious improvements in the accuracy improvements.

I really need to get myself a bbl nut tool so that I can take a close look at the bbl to receiver fit. I really have trouble believing that the bbl is solely to blame for the sub par accuracy. I'm almost positive there is room for improvement with a little tweaking.

Accuracy problems? I thought I'd heard every complaint there is about the 15-22, but I hadn't heard about poor accuracy until now. I'm curious, how many of those complaining of poor accuracy are using some type of optic? I noticed immediatly when I picked up my 15-22 that the factory irons were junk. I've mounted a 2 MOA red dot and accuracy is supurb. Keep in mind the chamber in any semi auto will be a little sloppy, otherwise they won't extract reliably. The loose chamber *generally* leads to a decrease in accuracy vs a bolt gun. This is especially true for a rimfire.

What I'd like to see is someone mount a high end glass on the rail and shoot 100 rounds off a bench at 50yds. Then we'd see what the GUN (not the cheap canted factory sights) are capable of... Just my .02

i've done this. i have mounted my second scope (6-24x now) on my 15-22. i'm going to shoot it and post results soon. i have several posts with pictures of targets shot at 50 yards off a bench with a 18x scope.

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15-22, BSA 6-18x, Laserlyte V2

Update!

A couple of days ago, I mounted my Leupold Rifleman 3-9x40. I was almost sick with the results. The scope came off my modified 10/22 that is capable of shooting of shooting 1/4" groups at 25 yards. On the 15-22, I could only get about 1-1/2" at 25 yards. I've never ever had a 22 rifle that couldn't hold under an inch at 25 yards with a scope and good ammo.

I had trouble believing the scope is the problem, so just a half hour ago I decided to take a closer look at the 15-22. I squirted a little rem oil on the outside of the bbl extension where it mates up with the receiver on the inside and gave the bbl a little wiggle. Sure enough, I could see some oil being displaced as I wiggle the muzzle of the bbl. I found a bent up aluminum handle from a broken snow shovel and made a makeshift bbl nut tool. Damn bbl nut offered no resistance whatsoever when I spun it off. So I'm thinking it was not torqued down to spec, or didn't stay torqued to spec. After taking it apart, I checked the play between the bbl and the steel sleeve it sits in. I must say that I'm a little surprised just how much play there is between the bbl and the steel sleeve in the receiver. I can see that if the bbl isn't torqued down properly, and if the bbl nut does not make physical contact with the steel sleeve when torqued down, it could have some accuracy problems. Honestly, I was getting better groups with iron sights when it was brand new.

While I have it apart, I'll get some pictures posted of the parts. I'll also see if I can sketch up a quick diagram on how the bbl, handguard, and BBL nut interface so you can see what I'm talking about.

I think my next two steps are:
1- put the scope back on the 10/22 and verify that there isn't a problem with the scope. It's been a few months since I've shot the 10/22, so I want to eliminate the scope as a problem.

2- Once I've verified there's not a problem with the scope, I'm going to put it back together without the handguard. That way I can make sure that the bbl nut is contacting the sleeve and try to shoot for groups. Not sure how stable I can get it on the bench without an handguard and not resting the BBL on anything, but it's worth a shot.

Great, can't wait to see the results!!

Thomas,

Sounds like you found the problem!! Glad it wasn't anything major. Let us know what kind of results you get now.

ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

(image not to scale, and I was too lazy to add the rail cutouts)

Great illustration. Sure would seem that a loose barrel nut could cause problems in accuracy.

Yes Indeed- Poor accuracy. I'm not talking about banging away at cans and stuff or fast-firing at foot-sized targets -- I love the 15-22 for that. That's the kinda stuff I bought the 15-22 for. What I was talking about is -->rifle accuracy<--. And mine isn't capable of much, nor is anyone else's from what I have seen in the target threads.

S&W boasts a "match grade barrel". There is something seriously wrong with that statement, or something else seriously wrong with the rifle. The 15-22 is probably the least accurate rifle I have ever held.

[QUOTE=Thomas_H;1215855]ok just so everyone can see what I'm talking about

What's the verdict? Did S&W forget to tighten the nuts and bolts?

My observations too. I just don't get it. It's not the shooter's ability since everything I have seen posted here is pretty much the same. There's got top be a reason that this rife shoots on par with my .22LR pistols at 50 yards.

I see it all. But I am clueless as to what it all means.

What is the torque spec for the barrel nut? I have the wrench, but I don't know what to torque it to.
Thomas H. that is a great cross section. Do you do that professionally?
These pics are from my last outing. The 12 gauge shell on its side is how it was laying. I was aiming for the center of the brass. The 12 gauge that is end on is missing the primer, because I shot it out. The other shells are 44 Magnum. I went from one to the other, bang hit, bang, hit, Etc. Oh yeah, 40 yards. This rifle does a pretty darn good job, once the barrel nut is tight. I just guessed at the torque, so I could get shooting.

Attached Images

	M&P 15-22 Misc 004.jpg (51.1 KB, 102 views)
	M&P 15-22 Misc 006.jpg (54.3 KB, 142 views)

Haven't seen any "official" torque specs, but on one forum post it was 15 '/# and another it was 20 '/#.

I saw someone mention the GSG-5 when talking about the problems with the MP15-22, and how good the GSG-5 shoots. I have both and I can tell you...the GSG-5 had multiple problems in the Gen 1 and Gen 2 guns, of which I have the Gen 2. I believe the Gen 3 has most of the bugs worked out, but now there will be no more after this year due to a law suit. So, once the MP15-22 has been around as long as the GSG-5, I'm sure that it will be a quality item with the bugs worked out. Isn't it a shame...GSG-5 finally made right and then a law suit puts it out for the count. Go to the GSG-5 forums and you will see a list of problems that people experienced, mainly with FTE's. I personally like the MP15-22. I had the ejector problem, did the fix (slightly bent the ejector in), and no more FTE's. I would recommend the rifle.

Something else that I forgot to mention...Gander Mountain (GM) has been referenced several times during this discussion. I wanted to put my two cents worth in. I have had nothing but negative experiences when dealing with the firearms department at my GM. They tend to be on the pricey side when it comes to firearms. The sales people are less than cordial and I have never gotten that old "service with a smile". I have witnessed two employees (on two seperate occasions) get into shouting matches and I thought that they were going to come to blows. I have seen shouting matches between employees and customers on more than one occasion. I left a shotgun with the gunsmith for a couple of minor issues, and didn't get it back for over three months...with the job only half way done. Then, I found a price on a Henry Rifle which was cheaper than GM, and I told them about it. Their policy is supposed to be, if you find it cheaper, they will sell it to you at that price. Well, they wouldn't call to verify, they wanted me to go to the other store, have a manager fill out a paper that told the exact price, and have that manager sign the paper to prove it. What?! Are you kidding me? What manager of another store is going to take the time to do this so that the customer can go to another store to purchase the product? I couldn't believe it. The firearm was much cheaper at Walmart, but it wasn't in stock...that's why I wanted to get it from GM. Finally, I told them to stick it and I thought that it was false advertising, and I just ordered the firearm from Walmart. It was much cheaper and came in within a week. Needless to say, I am not a fan of GM.

+1 for the gm thing and our bass pro is about as bad... ive got a gsg-5sd and a s&w m&p 15-22 that ive threaded the barrel and now have the intregal suppressor look going on.. i love them both, they get alot of looks and they r great cheap trainers for my mp5 and my ars... there is a down side to a rimfire weapon its the rim (in case u didnt know)and there is no way around that and as long as they have high capacity mags with thumb assists for rimfires there will be feed problems... good news is they r cheap so throw the damage round away and move on.. a huge + for the s&w is that cleaning is so very easy... it makes the 10/22 look difficult lol
...just my thoughts hope it was helpful to vent... i know it helped me lol

add another to the GM haters club. They are for sure higher on there stuff, and the people in the gun dept never seem to be eager to help me, and when they do, there not to helpful. I'll stick with good ol Academy. Always been great to me.

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Smth & Wesson M&P AR15-22

I say.... to heck with all these chain stores. When it comes to firearms I first go to my local gun club. If he can't get what I want in a reasonable time (such as the 15-22 which was allocated) then I go to Benton Shooters in Benton, TN. I can always get a better deal at Benton though I prefer to support my local club. I guess it's just a personal thang... but I just ain't buying no gun from Walmart, Dick's, Sportsman Warehouse et al., or the Disneyland displays at Cabellas and Pro Bass.... though... I'll gladly waste their time taking a 'gander' at their inventory.