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  #1  
Old 12-06-2009, 10:19 PM
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Is s&w replacing parts or just modifing existing parts for their known issues mp15-22?
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2009, 06:26 AM
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That's a good question. Mine is there now and I'll try to remember to post when I get it back.
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:05 AM
27 Beck 27 Beck is offline
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Originally Posted by kilo6echo View Post
Is s&w replacing parts or just modifing existing parts for their known issues mp15-22?
Fix will depend on the problem.

In my case, S&W had to replace the extractor, as it was no longer in the bolt. Did they replace it with same or improved part? I don't know, as I don't have the old one for comparison.

I think they also checked the location of the ejector.

They added two magazined to my collection.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Beck View Post
Fix will depend on the problem.

In my case, S&W had to replace the extractor, as it was no longer in the bolt. Did they replace it with same or improved part? I don't know, as I don't have the old one for comparison.

I think they also checked the location of the ejector.

They added two magazined to my collection.
Maybe they are just doing both when they get them in. Replacing both the ejector and extractor...
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:13 PM
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Is s&w replacing parts or just modifing existing parts for their known issues mp15-22?
Duknow.... but at least I haven't read of any rifles failing after being repaired.
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2009, 03:25 PM
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You'll hear if mine does.

-- Chuck
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  #7  
Old 12-09-2009, 10:19 PM
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same for me I'll post bad or good when it comes back!
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  #8  
Old 12-10-2009, 12:47 PM
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Yeah! Fedex brought me my rifle this morning. It looks like they just bent the ejector out. It looks like the same exact piece. They also gave me two more magazines. It was quick. I dropped it off at Fed Ex last Thursday night and they received it Friday afternoon. I don't know if I'll get to try out this week though.
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  #9  
Old 12-14-2009, 09:04 PM
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mine was just drop off at my house i got a new ejector and 2 new mags same extractor is on the gun
ill check it out on Wednesday
the paper did not give any info on the repairs done

Last edited by paulgl26; 12-14-2009 at 10:50 PM.
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  #10  
Old 12-14-2009, 09:24 PM
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My bet is that they are they are replacing parts. It's far more cost effective to replace a cheap out of spec part with a cheap in-spec part, then try to make the out of spec part work. Plus, it's one less chance that they will have to work on the rifle again at a later date.
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  #11  
Old 01-11-2010, 10:02 PM
fishinbill85 fishinbill85 is offline
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HI all,

I'm new to the forum and I joined after reading that apparently a LOT of rifles have had issues. I bought my mp 15-22 on 1/7/10 and I loved it. Currently I have about 200 rds through it (federal bulk) and I switched ammo (winchester xpert hv) and the first round apparently (pure speculation) fired out of battery and blew open the back of the casing spewing burning powder into my hand (little ouch). It also blew the extractor out of the bolt and into the yard somewhere never to be found again. I managed to find the spring and another small part jammed up in the gun....Now, I'm obviously mad about this meaning the gun is effectively 4 days old and it's already disabled. I have called s&w and they are sending me a return label for shipment back to the mothership.

My question is, are they going to make this "right" without having to be "coaxed"?

FYI, my hand got burnt (partially my fault) because I was holding a bucket about a foot from the ejection port to collect brass for primer strike inspection, etc. Nevertheless thats not normal and has never happened to me before..........It was also a very loud report, obviously due to the case rupturing.

I have read about some of these rifles firing out of battery, and that's what has me suspicious. I noticed that when I was firing the federal bulk I had one that got about half way into the chamber and went off, because the bottom 1/4 of the case was "belled" out. The one that blew had a slight bell going but ruptured due to (I belive) thinner brass. Thoughts? Sorry for the Speech but I'm kinda miffed over this issue. Thanks.
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  #12  
Old 01-11-2010, 11:20 PM
Thomas_H Thomas_H is offline
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What do you mean by "make it right"? They will fix the rifle. I'm not sure what else your expecting.

Out of curiosity, when you took the rifle home from the dealer, did you field strip, clean the chamber and bore and lube the rifle?
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  #13  
Old 01-12-2010, 08:49 AM
fishinbill85 fishinbill85 is offline
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As a matter of fact I did strip and clean the rifle prior to shooting it. I am downright O.C.D when it comes to cleaning my firearms.

There are numerous reports of extractors "blowing out" of the bolts on these weapons, and most of the instances I have read about were harmless, meaning nobody got hurt. In [I]MY[I]particular case, this could have seriously hurt or (worse) me or someone else. I'm not a pansy by any stretch, but members of my family were shooting this rifle as well and it could have been bad.

I don't believe I'll try legal recourse or any of that **** because frankly.......that's what's wrong with this country today. However, when I ask if they will make it right, I mean are they going to "fix" the rifle and pretend nothing happened or will they maybe go above and beyond and take steps to retain future business from myself and others that have had similar incidents like this? I'll see what happens.
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  #14  
Old 01-12-2010, 10:22 AM
27 Beck 27 Beck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinbill85 View Post
As a matter of fact I did strip and clean the rifle prior to shooting it. I am downright O.C.D when it comes to cleaning my firearms.

There are numerous reports of extractors "blowing out" of the bolts on these weapons, and most of the instances I have read about were harmless, meaning nobody got hurt. In [I]MY[I]particular case, this could have seriously hurt or (worse) me or someone else. I'm not a pansy by any stretch, but members of my family were shooting this rifle as well and it could have been bad.

I don't believe I'll try legal recourse or any of that **** because frankly.......that's what's wrong with this country today. However, when I ask if they will make it right, I mean are they going to "fix" the rifle and pretend nothing happened or will they maybe go above and beyond and take steps to retain future business from myself and others that have had similar incidents like this? I'll see what happens.
Like you, my 15-22 had an OOB and the extractor went missing. Sent my gun off to S&W with a round trip expense paid by them. Rifle fixed and brought up to current factory specs. They also included two magazines at no charge. So S&W did me right. They will do you right too.

OOBs can occur with any semi auto, any brand. If the ammo is slightly out of spec and doesn't enter the chamber all the way. The chamber is to spec, the ammo isn't. So who is to blame, the gun or the ammo? That is why it is important to wear shooting glasses when shooting. Not a good idea to have someone standing next to the shooter.

OOBs also can occur with .223s. Now that will make you change your underwear.
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  #15  
Old 01-12-2010, 10:32 AM
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amen to this,,, i had a 10/22 blow the mag out of the gun and set my jacket on fire.... guns are dangerous anyone that tells you different has lost their minds...just as a rule of thumb i try to never stand on the ejection side of a weapon for that simple reason... and that ive seen a semi auto gun fire open bolt with a broke firing pin and spun the shooter around about 60 degrees
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  #16  
Old 01-12-2010, 11:30 AM
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I think FishinBill and Belt_Fed make good points.

Guns are dangerous and all of us should be well aware of this, ------> especially S&W.

Is it a secret that the 15-22 suffers chronic issues that increase the odds of an incident leading to injury? Is this even arguable? What actions has S&W taken to correct their shipped product other than letting the purchaser find out the hard way? To my knowledge S&W has made no effort whatsoever, and play dumb about it when asked. Is that the best this great firearms manufacturer is capable of? FishinBill just bought his rifle a couple days ago. No doubt the S&W guys will be shocked when Bill calls.
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Old 01-12-2010, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Beck View Post

So who is to blame, the gun or the ammo?
On any one instance that's a good question. But when a firearm has such chronic problems as does the 15-22... I'd win money in Vegas betting on the gun being the problem.
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  #18  
Old 01-12-2010, 02:14 PM
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We're ßeta testing this carbine. Get paid two magazines every time we sent 'em back for problem resolution. 25% of users who responded to the poll indicate problems.

-- Chuck
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:40 PM
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We're ßeta testing this carbine. Get paid two magazines every time we sent 'em back for problem resolution. 25% of users who responded to the poll indicate problems.

-- Chuck
Beta testing... that's good!
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Old 01-12-2010, 03:37 PM
Thomas_H Thomas_H is offline
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Originally Posted by fishinbill85 View Post
I don't believe I'll try legal recourse or any of that **** because frankly.......that's what's wrong with this country today. However, when I ask if they will make it right, I mean are they going to "fix" the rifle and pretend nothing happened or will they maybe go above and beyond and take steps to retain future business from myself and others that have had similar incidents like this? I'll see what happens.
By fixing the rifle under warranty, they are by definition, not pretending nothing happened. They could have just as easily claimed that it was bad ammo, improper use, etc. They could have easily told you to go pound sand. But they didn't. They took the rifle back under warranty, on their dime, on your word. If that's not good customer service, I'm not sure what is. They have already gone "above and beyond".

As far as legal recourse, it's good you don't plan on taking any legal action. You would not have any standing anyway unless there were any actual damages. Saying you "could have" been hurt will not cut it. Don't get me wrong, I understand where your coming from. I regularly take my children with me to the range to do some plinking.

As far as you getting your hand burnt, that's all on you. You were purposefully holding your hand in front of the ejection port, which is commonly known to launch hot brass, hot carbon, and other **** out of the side of the rifle. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Sometimes stupid hurts.

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Old 01-12-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by fishinbill85 View Post

FYI, my hand got burnt (partially my fault) because I was holding a bucket about a foot from the ejection port to collect brass for primer strike inspection, etc. Nevertheless thats not normal and has never happened to me before..........It was also a very loud report, obviously due to the case rupturing.
Next time you're shooting the 15-22 while holding a bucket to catch the brass.... could you please video and post it here. I'd love to see your technique.... and it's sure to be a hit among many here.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
Next time you're shooting the 15-22 while holding a bucket to catch the brass.... could you please video and post it here. I'd love to see your technique.... and it's sure to be a hit among many here.
+ 1 for this sounds like quallity entertainment lol
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:39 PM
fishinbill85 fishinbill85 is offline
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Originally Posted by Thomas_H View Post
By fixing the rifle under warranty, they are by definition, not pretending nothing happened. They could have just as easily claimed that it was bad ammo, improper use, etc. They could have easily told you to go pound sand. But they didn't. They took the rifle back under warranty, on their dime, on your word. If that's not good customer service, I'm not sure what is. They have already gone "above and beyond".
As far as you getting your hand burnt, that's all on you. You were purposefully holding your hand in front of the ejection port, which is commonly known to launch hot brass, hot carbon, and other **** out of the side of the rifle. Chalk it up as a lesson learned. Sometimes stupid hurts.
If we were talking about one or two or one hundred instances I could agree, but there are several hundred or maybe even thousands of instances of things like this happening (to this rifle). Fixing this under "warranty" no longer cuts it, they should be thinking recall at this time. I have not read about many instances of the rifles malfunctioning after the trip back to S&W, so that tells me that they are doing something right to repair and prevent this from happening. If so then S&W should be proactive in remedying this issue BEFORE it reaches consumer hands, agree?



You know as much as I hate to say it.......WHERE'S MY SIGN!

Sometimes non-ignorant people do flat out questionable (read: STUPID) things (2008-2009 were prime examples............). Sometimes we all need another person or two around to act as other "consciences" to ward off hazardous ideas. EVERBODY has done or was about to do something, at least once in their lives, concerning firearms, that was just plain dumb. Some caught it before, some didn't and looked back saying,"I can't believe I actually did that, what the hell is wrong with me?"

With all things aside, when this rifle gets back, I'm gonna shoot the fire out of it (no pun intended) because I'm not dead and I still like it.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:46 PM
27 Beck 27 Beck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinbill85 View Post
If we were talking about one or two or one hundred instances I could agree, but there are several hundred or maybe even thousands of instances of things like this happening (to this rifle). Fixing this under "warranty" no longer cuts it, they should be thinking recall at this time. I have not read about many instances of the rifles malfunctioning after the trip back to S&W, so that tells me that they are doing something right to repair and prevent this from happening. If so then S&W should be proactive in remedying this issue BEFORE it reaches consumer hands, agree?
Where are you getting your several hundred or even thousands numbers from?

S&W is taking care of the problems as they occur. Seems fair enough to me.

Recall only occurs when a safety issue with gun blowing up or shooting when safety is engaged. The problems here on the forum are all inconveniences.
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Old 01-12-2010, 09:59 PM
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I did not state those figures as fact. Peruse the internet and read about mp 15-22 issues, there are very many other internet disscussion forums in existance and this subject is relatively common. Also, let's not be naive to the fact that there are a great deal more people who do NOT participate in internet disscussion forums, especially this one, so there are cases that are not heard about at all (here/other forums).

I was simply stating that as an estimate. But I still believe S&W can and should be more proactive than reactive regarding this issue. Do you think that S&W is actually going to disclose just how many units have been repaired or how many are lined up for repair? If they know of a potential issue, especially one that can be fixed on a "permanent basis"(loose term), why would they not make the adjustments at the factory before they find their way into consumers hands and let people find out,"the hard way"?

I'm mostly irritated because I won't be able to shoot my rifle for almost 2 weeks. I'm going through withdrawals.
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  #26  
Old 01-13-2010, 03:12 AM
Thomas_H Thomas_H is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishinbill85 View Post
If they know of a potential issue, especially one that can be fixed on a "permanent basis"(loose term), why would they not make the adjustments at the factory before they find their way into consumers hands and let people find out,"the hard way"?

Consider for a moment that they didn't know about the problem before it got into your hands. And that's assuming that's it's actually a problem with the rifle and not out of spec ammo.

There are alot of factors out of S&W's control that can directly lead to a OOB discharge. Improper or lack of cleaning, lack of lube, or use of incorrect lube (especially in cold weather), home gunsmithing (trigger jobs), user damage due to improper handling of parts when field stripped (bolt carrier rails are bent easily), inconsistent bulk ammo that is packaged poorly and often mishandled in transport/stocking. I could probably come up with 10 or 20 more possible causes, but I think you get the point.

It would be pretty stupid for S&W to issue a recall unless they can definitively say that a specific design/material flaw of the rifle leads to a dangerous situation, especially since they are a publicly traded company.

I'm not saying that there's not a problem with your rifle. There very well could be. But at this point, you're assuming quite a bit saying that there is. The only thing you know at this point is you had an OOB discharge which damaged the extractor. That sucks. But unless you can state definitively what caused it to happen, you really can't place blame on S&W's feet yet. And the fact is, even if your rifle runs 100% when you get it back, it still doesn't doesn't mean that anything was wrong with the rifle. It could have been caused by any number of factors.

Rimfire OOB's are not uncommon. Should the extractor be stonger? Sure. But it's a completely separate issue and probably has nothing to do with the root cause. It would be nice if they could set up the hammer/bolt timing so that it could not strike the firing pin until it was completely in battery, but that is next to impossible with a blow-back rimfire.

On a side note, assuming the rifle is at fault, if I had to guess what the problem is, the first thing I would be looking at is the chamber dimensions. A tight or out of spec chamber could very easily cause the problem. In fact, if it's a true match grade chamber (which I don't think it is), it could explain a lot. The only other possibility I can think of is a hammer follow. But short of a disconnector failure, that's next to impossible with this rifle. The action geometry just will not allow it.
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  #27  
Old 01-13-2010, 06:30 PM
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fishinbill,

Your logic sounds pretty bullet-proof to me. -- If S&W can remedy and "Update to Current Spec" rifles that are returned to them, then they can certainly "Update to Current Spec" rifles that have not yet sold. End of story. The remaining question is 'should they'? That is an answer based on an equation of sales/reputation/liability/cost. So far the answer has been NO, and to publicly play dumb about any issues.

That being said, I am reading about more and more 15-22s having been returned multiple times to S&W. Perhaps S&W is perplexed about what is causing their product failures or they are simply 'Updating to BS Specs" and don't give a darn. I don't pretend to know.

ps. I suspect that 15-22 return levels are well into 4 figures by now.
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:49 PM
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Consider for a moment that they didn't know about the problem
Consider for a moment the 15-22 is a sub MOA rifle.
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  #29  
Old 01-13-2010, 07:57 PM
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lol funny
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post

ps. I suspect that 15-22 return levels are well into 4 figures by now.
I'm guessing mine will be the one to put them into the 4 figures.

I was out today and put about 350 rounds through it and then I heard a loud bang, looked down and no more extractor.. There was a casing half in the chamber and the back half was crushed with the bottom of the shell looking like someone took a can opener and opened half a tin can.
its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me.

Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:11 PM
27 Beck 27 Beck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rip3000gt View Post
I'm guessing mine will be the one to put them into the 4 figures.

I was out today and put about 350 rounds through it and then I heard a loud bang, looked down and no more extractor.. There was a casing half in the chamber and the back half was crushed with the bottom of the shell looking like someone took a can opener and opened half a tin can.
its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me.

Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.
Sigh. Sounds like an OOB. What ammo were you shooting?
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:20 PM
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i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:30 PM
27 Beck 27 Beck is offline
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Quote:
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i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing
(RGBs)
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:45 PM
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thats where my money would be
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Old 01-13-2010, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by rip3000gt View Post
its going out as soon as I get the shipping labels emailed to me. Before this I had around 900 rounds through it, I only ever had 5 jams, and thought I had a lucky one. guess not. so I guess it can happen to anyone at anytime.
Sorry to hear of it. And yes, the 15-22 seems to fail at any time. As I remember, Chuck was quite please with his until the kaboom.

I pre-ordered a return label to S&W several weeks ago.
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  #36  
Old 01-13-2010, 10:38 PM
rip3000gt rip3000gt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Beck View Post
Sigh. Sounds like an OOB. What ammo were you shooting?
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Originally Posted by BELT_FED View Post
i can allmost guess... anyone wanna take bets on what kinda ammo he was useing
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(RGBs)
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Originally Posted by BELT_FED View Post
thats where my money would be
and the winner is...


Well you are all right, kinda

They were Remington but not the "golden bullet" well I guess that is what they would call them now. I was actually shooting up some older 22's that have been sitting around here for years. They were always kept dry and at room temp just were forgotten about for a long time. Not sure of the date but there isn't a bar code on the box and there is a price sticker from K-Mart for $8.99 (box of 10 boxes of 50) I still have about 8 more boxes of this stuff, I guess i'll leave it to the bolt action guns.
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  #37  
Old 01-14-2010, 04:45 AM
Thomas_H Thomas_H is offline
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Keep a close eye out for overly waxed bullets. This can really gum up a chamber.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:36 PM
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I got mine back yesterday and shot close to 350 rounds and did not have anymore FTE's or FTF's..thanks smith and wesson guys..
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