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Old 03-08-2010, 12:06 AM
CAR-15M4 CAR-15M4 is offline
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Default How much FTF is acceptable?

Today at the range, I fired 5 mags no problem and then on the sixth had one FTF. Had probably 4-5 more over about 300 rounds. Is this acceptable? All six of my mags are NOT marked "25 rounds". I paid attention to loading and did everything right. I guess my question is should I be concerned or not? Serial #DTM-05**
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:30 AM
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BELT_FED BELT_FED is offline
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im going to say thats about the norm on any auto 22.. 1-2% isnt bad at all on a rimfire assuming your shooting bulk pack ammo
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:38 AM
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I think Belt Fed is unfortunately right. I've had model 60's and 10/22 and they all had FTE or FTF problems at about 2-3%. Of course those rifles were only $89 and $120 so I didn't complain, annoying as it was. But the 15-22 being $500 I would expect better and hoping when I pick mine up(6more days) it is. Failure to fire because of light pin strikes happen on those two rifles at another 1% to boot.From what I hear the S&W doesn't have that problem at all.
I have a Beretta 92g elite2 with a 22 conversion kit that has a thousand rounds through it using bulk ammo without a FTF or FTE so I know it can be done.

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Old 03-08-2010, 07:30 AM
Skidder Skidder is offline
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How much FTF is acceptable? How much FTF is acceptable? How much FTF is acceptable? How much FTF is acceptable? How much FTF is acceptable?  
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To me zero would be acceptable. Look at it this way what if it were a life or death situation would even one ftf be acceptable? Not in my book.
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Old 03-08-2010, 08:10 AM
Jswiney9 Jswiney9 is offline
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1% at the most, you have to take into consideration bad ammo and the occasional burp by the gun. anything more than that is too much. i had a remington 522 viper that had 1% ftf, if that poor excuse for a semi-auto can do it, then i know that a 500 dollar gun can. FWIW the viper still shoots perfectly to this day. i got the 1 of the million that actually worked.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:10 AM
CAR-15M4 CAR-15M4 is offline
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Let me clarify, these were failure to feed. The typical round straight up in the mag with the bolt slamming into it denting the casing. Sorry about that guys!
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:55 AM
Skidder Skidder is offline
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Same answer by me a fail to feed is still a fail to fire. Especially when someone or something is headed your way! Zero tolerance.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:57 AM
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ChattanoogaPhil ChattanoogaPhil is offline
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Originally Posted by CAR-15M4 View Post
Today at the range, I fired 5 mags no problem and then on the sixth had one FTF. Had probably 4-5 more over about 300 rounds. Is this acceptable? All six of my mags are NOT marked "25 rounds". I paid attention to loading and did everything right. I guess my question is should I be concerned or not? Serial #DTM-05**
I have a DTH. It has about 1% 'mag-snags' (Failure to Feed with the round snagged vertical in the magazine and bent from being slammed by the bolt.). There is no pattern to mag-snags. It can can operate 200-300 rounds with none, but then get one in each of the next couple mags or vice versa. Clean or dirty... no pattern.

Whether that is acceptable or not is subjective. What you're reporting seems fairly common with other reports here and does not appear to increase with time (maybe even improve a little). Mag-snags don't appear to lead to or indicate other problems with the rifle. In other words... it's a benign annoyance. My 15-22 has been mag-snagging for nearly 14k rounds.

The rim can become quite lodged in the magazine. About the only way to quickly remove the round is it to lever the bullet forward with enough force to pry the rim out of the magazine. Frankly, I'm not too fond of doing this with a rimfire, so I keep my fingers away and use the plastic handle portion of a screw driver to lever against the bullet.

As far as other .22s... with the Sig 522 SWAT I've experienced about a 1% improvement over the 15-22 with FTF issues.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:34 AM
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To me zero would be acceptable. Look at it this way what if it were a life or death situation would even one ftf be acceptable? Not in my book.
For a firearm intended for self defense, I agree completely. But I'm a lot more forgiving of recreational non-competition firearms.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:47 AM
Jswiney9 Jswiney9 is offline
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Let me clarify, these were failure to feed. The typical round straight up in the mag with the bolt slamming into it denting the casing. Sorry about that guys!
ahh stovepiping is all its own category, that is pretty much just something you deal with. so many different factors go into a mag snag, still though, my answer stays the same. if they get too redundant its just a problem
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Old 03-08-2010, 12:52 PM
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the main reason for centerfire weapons is the problems with the rimfires.. ftf and oobs.. centerfires are more dependable and for that reason you will pay for them.. i dont think ftfs are 100% do to any gun.. ive got 14 rimfires a few way more exspensive than the 15-22 and they all have feed problems ever now and again its kinda the nature of the mouse the rim get snagged, inconsistant powder charges and bullet weights... the 15-22 isnt a cheap gun but the ammo is and thats why we all bought them.... just my .02
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:08 PM
ArcaneFlame ArcaneFlame is offline
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Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
For a firearm intended for self defense, I agree completely. But I'm a lot more forgiving of recreational non-competition firearms.

I fully agree with you here Phil. Just because the 15-22 looks bad *** doesn't make it an acceptable self defense weapon. Sure, it'd probably work in a pinch but not something I would want to rely on if the shtf. So it's really unfair to try and hold a rimfire rifle (any rimfire firearm for that matter, especially semi-autos) to the standards of a more dedicated self defense platform.

There's simply too much variance in the ammo as well as it's ability to cycle the action if it's not a consistent load and is on the low end with powder. That added to the tendency for failure to fires, even with good primer strikes, makes it less than ideal for a dedicated self defense role. (not to mention the argument of stopping power and penetration)

With that said... .22 is still one of my favorite platforms to shoot. Just not something I'd consider a go-to gun for self defense.
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Old 03-08-2010, 03:50 PM
CAR-15M4 CAR-15M4 is offline
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Also, this is a "just for fun" gun for me. I use it as a cheap alternative to shoot instead of my 5.56 guns. I am not so much worried about it as I was wondering if this could be an indicator of problems to come. Are the new mags any better?
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:11 PM
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Smile Yesterday's FTF stats

I was out at the range yesterday with my 15-22 and eight magazines, painstakingly loaded at home with CCI HP and roundnose. 3 FTF incidents (where the round was bent and left standing vertically). I have about 500 rds through this rifle at this point and am convinced that keeping things clean and loading the magazines carefully is as important as what ammo you select. I'd be happy to see an aftermarket or improved magazine design, but compared to some of the other problems folks next to me were having with their 10-22 hi-cap magazines, I was delighted with how well the 15-22 worked. Of course my old Colt AR-15 ripped through everything it was fed without a hiccup...... 22LR is an interesting little round...
Bill
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:26 PM
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I have a Ciener 1911 .22 conversion on one of my Colt Series 80's and after a couple thousand rounds have never had a FTF, one of my 10/22's the same way, the other has had a couple FTF's
My S&W 22A has been perfect for 2 years!

I have been trying to decide whether to buy a 15-22
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS View Post
I have a Ciener 1911 .22 conversion on one of my Colt Series 80's and after a couple thousand rounds have never had a FTF, one of my 10/22's the same way, the other has had a couple FTF's
My S&W 22A has been perfect for 2 years!

I have been trying to decide whether to buy a 15-22
I own several 22s and have few cycling issues. I also have a S&W 22A and it feeds most all ammo. It's nearly as accommodating as my Ruger 22/45.

I have beat my 15-22 like a rented mule and it has worked great. I only use Fed ammo. I would not hesitate to buy another.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ArcaneFlame View Post
I fully agree with you here Phil. Just because the 15-22 looks bad *** doesn't make it an acceptable self defense weapon. Sure, it'd probably work in a pinch but not something I would want to rely on if the shtf. So it's really unfair to try and hold a rimfire rifle (any rimfire firearm for that matter, especially semi-autos) to the standards of a more dedicated self defense platform.

There's simply too much variance in the ammo as well as it's ability to cycle the action if it's not a consistent load and is on the low end with powder. That added to the tendency for failure to fires, even with good primer strikes, makes it less than ideal for a dedicated self defense role. (not to mention the argument of stopping power and penetration)

With that said... .22 is still one of my favorite platforms to shoot. Just not something I'd consider a go-to gun for self defense.
Right. It all boils down to expectations. For what I bought the 15-22 for it has performed great!
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:22 AM
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out of about 1000 rounds of cci mini mag and wally world bulk, ive had 3-4 failure to feed. it only did this when i was really hammering them off as fast as i could. this tends to make me believe that, as stated already, powder inconsintency, etc. I dont feel that it is actually a gun malfuntion. But... like was already stated for 500$ it SHOULD perform better, then we add another 300-400 bucks in "stuff".

I have a 597 with 7 thousand rounds through it and it has a few FTE,fail/feed, failure/fire. it malfunctions maybe twice what my 15-22 does. for the record, my 15-22 has ONLY had the fail/feed.
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Old 03-09-2010, 08:41 AM
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I wonder if I go to the S&W store to buy a 15-22 I will be able to get one of the most recent ones rather than going to a local dealer who may have an older one lying around,
It sounds like the newer ones have solved all the problems.
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Old 03-09-2010, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Ben Cartwright SASS View Post
I wonder if I go to the S&W store to buy a 15-22 I will be able to get one of the most recent ones rather than going to a local dealer who may have an older one lying around,
It sounds like the newer ones have solved all the problems.
I am doing the same thing, for the same reasons. Several of the dealers around here have 15-22's in stock, but I do not know how long they have been there. If you'll check the Davidson's site you will see a few 15-22's, these came in late last week, and to my way of thinking these should be the latest production from the factory, and as you say they should have the bugs fixed. I did try emailing Davidson's to see if they would give me the first 4 digits of the serial numbers, but no reply as yet. I'll order one if I can find out what the serial numbers are, of course that won't absolutely guarantee a good one, but I think it might improve the odds.
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