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06-22-2010, 05:52 AM
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I don't really get the M&P 15/22
Why the big fuss? It's a .22. You can get a Ruger 10/22 and trick it out to look "tactical" for less. Mags are cheaper, too. I know some people will say it's a great training tool to make the transition to an AR easier, but I disagree. You can teach a person how to operate an AR in about 3 minutes. Shooting a .22 will never equal shooting a .223. Plus, I get the impression tha people buy them just because they look cool.
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06-22-2010, 06:40 AM
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You can teach a person how to operate an AR in about 3 minutes.
How to operate it, yes... but that's *conscious operation*. It takes hundreds or thousands of repetitions to develop muscle memory and get to "unconscious proficiency". It's not about transition to an AR, it's about becoming proficient.
If your patrol rifle or house rifle is an AR-style rifle, then training with the *exact same manual of arms* allows you to develop the muscle memory and motor skills for about 1/20th the cost ($0.02/rd for .22, $0.40/rd for .223).
And yeah, they do look cool.
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06-22-2010, 08:13 AM
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i bough mine because it looks cool. i also have a 10-22,single six,h&r,mark2,browing lever,remington pump,henry lever and a rem.bolt, you can never have to many 22s.
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06-22-2010, 08:40 AM
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Same as what they said, cheap practice...but it does look cool too.
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06-22-2010, 11:27 AM
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I moved this thread from Long Guns to the 15-22 section--
Most people who contribute to this Forum seem to very much enjoy the 15-22. Some use it as a training tool, some just for plinking fun.
C'mon guys.... tell kbm6893 why you like the 15-22!
And yeah.... it is cool.
Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 06-22-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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06-22-2010, 11:32 AM
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15-22
I bought one in oct and after I had it a while I thought the same thing I mean I have 4 other .22s so I sold it.well last week I bought a new moe.for me its just something differnt looks cool like you said.Iset it up differnt than my other.22 red dot scope and back up sights instead of a variable crosshair scope.for me its just a plinker a cool toy and a training rifle for my real ar
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06-22-2010, 11:39 AM
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The 10/22, when modified to imitate a "tactical" look such as an AR15 looks like junk in my eyes. Even Ruger's new version looks like a bad attempt. It's a great gun, but in my mind it's better as a target gun.
My next rifle is going to be a center fire AR. After a several hundred or several thousand rounds with my 15-22 I'll have the manual of arms down pat and can get right into shooting the expensive stuff well. No reason to train with .223 when I can use .22LR and shoot all day for $20.
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06-22-2010, 11:49 AM
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Take one out and shoot a couple of hundred rounds through it and you'll see what the fuss is about. I got mine because it looked cool and I thought would be a good training tool for me and my daughter. But this thing is an absolute blast at the range. One of the most fun guns I've ever owned.
And did I mention, it looks cool?
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06-22-2010, 11:50 AM
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I love the m&p 15-22 its cheap to shoot and its accurate
I dont want even want a 223
rather have my AK-47 ,each to their own as they say
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06-22-2010, 12:33 PM
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I traded a 10/22 with an overmolded stock, a quad rail forend, a bull barrel, a bipod and a 3x9 scope straight across for a plain 1st gen 15-22 and definitely got the better end of the deal. This 15-22 is more fun than anything else I've ever shot. Everybody who puts a magazine or two or four through it grins like a fool and gives it back saying "That's just fun." I've enjoyed accessorizing it immensely and am filling out the NFA Form 1 to submit so I can have my barrel cut short, because it will be even cooler then.
If you really question "Why the 15-22?" go out shooting with someone who owns one. It probably wouldn't take more than a magazine or two to convert you.
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06-22-2010, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustpot
The 10/22, when modified to imitate a "tactical" look such as an AR15 looks like junk in my eyes.
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You're not the only one that feels that way.
I got mine due to the similarity between the 15-22 and the AR15 platform. I plan on building my first AR15 soon, and I wanted something to help familiarize myself with the workings of the AR15; no, the 15-22 isn't exactly the same as a "true" AR, but it's similar enough to give me a good idea of what I'm looking at. Also, ~$.03/rd for federal bulk to practice with isn't exactly a downside either
Basically, my reasoning is due to the similarity between the 15-22 and "real" AR15s, both in an aesthetic sense and in the functionality.
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06-22-2010, 01:13 PM
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I purchased my 15-22 for a number of reasons. my first experience was with a S&W15 that my buddy owns. It is lightly modded with some stuff. Eotech red dot, different stock
etc etc. I want a full size AR in the future but just can't afford exactly what the AR build will cost. So main reasons is cost and the fact that anything I hang on my 15-22 will be able to go towards a future bad *** AR build.
It is fun to shoot, cheap to shoot and is a great platform to start off with AR's. All those reasons made another buddy of mine buy one last week too !!!
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06-22-2010, 01:15 PM
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How about this for simplicity:
it's reliable, cheap, fun to shoot, and looks cool.
that pretty much sums it up. I have other larger caliber rifles that are "tactical" in nature, but this rifle is just fun to shoot and I can go to the range with my 8 year old son and shoot all day for next to nothing.
What more reason do you need to buy one ?
The 10/22 is a great gun, but the modified ones look like what they are - modified 10/22's. The 15-22 looks like what it is as well. A .22 rifle that was designed from the ground up to be a tactical style .22 rifle. So instead of a decent retro- fit, you get the real thing. The fact that it's modeled after the AR 15 is just another plus in my opinion.
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06-22-2010, 01:20 PM
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1) Yes.. it look very cool, especially when it's tacticooly enhanced.
2) Ever take a 10/22 apart for a good cleaning? Ever take a real AR platform apart for a good cleaning? There's a significant difference in the work / time involved.
3) Last round fired locks bolt open... slide another mag in the well, smack the bolt release and continue firing. Not a huge deal, but stays in tradition with it's bigger brothers.
4) Tricking out a 10/22 isn't really any cheaper. Once you've bought a new 10/22 ($250 or so) and an archangel kit ($150 or so) you've reached the $400 tag of a 15-22.
5) It looks cool.
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06-22-2010, 01:41 PM
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I love my 15-22. It's fun, cheap to shoot, and looks cool.
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06-22-2010, 02:18 PM
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i assuming that he doesnt own a 15-22 or we would not be having this nice talk.. at close to 20,000 rds threw mine it would have cost several 1000 to put that threw my ars..."cheap trainer"
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06-22-2010, 02:46 PM
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I'll admit up front that I know nothing about ARs, but I'm pretty sure I've noticed somewhere that there are .22 rimfire conversion kits that can be used on a "real" AR. Wouldn't that be a better way to practice using an AR with .22lr? I guess that assumes one already has the base AR, which may not be the case. Are the conversion kits expensive, relative to the 15-22? Are they unreliable or finicky? Info/opinions appreciated.
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06-22-2010, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtf650
I'll admit up front that I know nothing about ARs, but I'm pretty sure I've noticed somewhere that there are .22 rimfire conversion kits that can be used on a "real" AR. Wouldn't that be a better way to practice using an AR with .22lr? I guess that assumes one already has the base AR, which may not be the case. Are the conversion kits expensive, relative to the 15-22? Are they unreliable or finicky? Info/opinions appreciated.
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You have 3 options basically
1. Buy a .22 bolt for you AR. Cheapest solution, but you're relying on a retrofit bolt and firing a .22 down a .223 barrel.
2. Buy a .22 upper receiver set. Cheapest ones are $400 or so, on up to $800 or more. You still need sights, optics, accessories to mimic your centerfire as you desire.
3. Buy a .22 rifle. Gets you a second rifle, built for the .22, need to buy sights, optics and accessories to mimic the centerfire.
The 15-22 is option 3, as is the Colt/Umarex Tactical 22. The 15-22 plastic receivers save a bit of weight without making it unrealistically light (5.5lb 15-22 vs. a 6-7lb AR). The gun can be used for new shooters who are shy of the recoil and noise of the .223/5.56, and saves wear to the lower from having additional rounds shot with it.
The Colt/Umarex .22 doesn't have a working bolt catch and is much more expensive.
The 15-22 is a very logical choice! Sig makes a similar rifle, the 522, which would be a perfect choice if you shoot the Sig 55x rifles or want a rifle like an AR that's just a bit different.
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06-22-2010, 03:18 PM
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I bought mine because...
Something my grandson would like to shoot.
Something I would like to shoot.
I like all 22's
Cheap to shoot.
No problem getting ammo.
Something to relax and have fun with.
Nuff said. Don
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06-22-2010, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustpot
The 10/22, when modified to imitate a "tactical" look such as an AR15 looks like junk in my eyes. Even Ruger's new version looks like a bad attempt. It's a great gun, but in my mind it's better as a target gun.
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This pretty much sums up my feelings on it as well. No matter what you do a 10/22 will always look like a 10/22 if you try and make it look like an AR-series rifle. Granted, I've seen some pretty impressive conversions like to a Thompson but every AR build just looks really bad.
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06-22-2010, 04:00 PM
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I bought my 15-22 because it's not a 10/22.
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06-22-2010, 04:10 PM
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To compound on my previous statement, this is what you can do with a 10/22 to make it look awesome;
And here's another great stock swap with sights for a great military trainer;
NOT THIS. This is trying to be something it is not. This should not be shown to the world. Unfortunately it's very popular. I have no idea why.
None of these are my pictures.
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06-22-2010, 04:40 PM
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Hey, I'm all for buying guns "just because". Do I need 5 handguns? No, I just want them. I also think the 15/22 looks cool, but I have fired it, and while it was fun, it wasn't any different than my 10/22 with a Tapco stock. And you can buy a cheap part to lock the bolt open on a 10/22. For $400, I can maybe see myself buying one someday, I guess. i REALLY don't get guys slapping $500 optics on a 15/22. You can certainly buy less expensive optics for a gun with zero recoil. Would I put a cheap optic on my AR? Nope. But a 15/22? Sure would. My first 10/22 still has the BSA scope I bought it with on it. Still can shoot a dime size group at 50 yards with it 10 years later.
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06-22-2010, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
For $400, I can maybe see myself buying one someday, I guess.
i REALLY don't get guys slapping $500 optics on a 15/22.
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Hang around this group of 15-22 enthusiast and "someday" will be soon.
One of the advantages of the 15-22 is being an AR platform. Optics, risers and mounts all swap between the 15-22 and AR.
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06-22-2010, 05:48 PM
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I don't know, to me that 10-22 is very ugly, but to each his own. I just built an ar with a 22 18 in lothar walthor bull barrel. So I was pretty well covered with the ar type 22. But seeing this for $377 I just couldn't resist. Yes it's plastic, but so lightweight. My bull barrel feel like it weighs as much as a canon.
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06-22-2010, 05:58 PM
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I bought it for my son to use, it's cheap to maintain, and I had lots of sights and accessories for the AR-15 already.
I first put a scope on it and shot it at 100 yards. It is accurate. Meh.
Then I put an eotech on it and it was a blast. Super light, cheap to shoot, and a good platform for getting used to an optics setup.
Now when I pick up my KISS AR-15 it is HEAVY...
So I guess that people hang stuff off the rifle to get it up to the poundage of your average AR.
CALLING MARK LARUE:
We need tactical lead bricks with pic rail mounts and lead rail covers.
Last edited by TurboniumOxide; 06-22-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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06-22-2010, 06:02 PM
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I do really like the M1 Carbine conversion above with the 10/22
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06-22-2010, 06:40 PM
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lets see...whats the old saying...dont feed the trools?
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06-22-2010, 07:01 PM
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I have a couple of target dedicated .22s and will sit at a bench and try to shoot one holers,but..... sometimes I like to shoot golf balls.,shotgun shells,metal pigs etc and for that my 15-22 is just the ticket.I don't have any optics on it just factory iron. The only mod is a forehand grip. Works for me.
Sure I could have picked up a $199 10-22 plinker from Wally World but that wasn't what I "wanted". And yes I could have thrown a Tapco stock and a 25 round mag on it but it still would not have been ..... You see where this is going.
I guess I got a 15-22 because I wanted one.
PS. My son is working on an M1 conversion for an Appleseed rifle.
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Last edited by trail; 06-22-2010 at 07:16 PM.
Reason: addition.
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06-22-2010, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboniumOxide
I do really like the M1 Carbine conversion above with the 10/22
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That does look pretty sweet.
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06-22-2010, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
You can get a Ruger 10/22 and trick it out to look "tactical" for less.
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Not when I added it up. The M&P15/22 was a good couple hundred bucks less than a 10/22 similarly equipped (and looked more "real" also).
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06-22-2010, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zercool
You can teach a person how to operate an AR in about 3 minutes.
How to operate it, yes... but that's *conscious operation*. It takes hundreds or thousands of repetitions to develop muscle memory and get to "unconscious proficiency". It's not about transition to an AR, it's about becoming proficient.
If your patrol rifle or house rifle is an AR-style rifle, then training with the *exact same manual of arms* allows you to develop the muscle memory and motor skills for about 1/20th the cost ($0.02/rd for .22, $0.40/rd for .223).
And yeah, they do look cool.
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^^^ Could not have said it better myself.
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06-22-2010, 09:51 PM
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The answer is simple. Because it's too cool.
Asking your question is like asking why people like AR's so much. They are easy to operate, they have tons of accessories, and you can personalize the hell out of them.
With the 15-22 you get all that and it's very cheap to shoot. What's not to like.
Honestly, mine is probably my favorite rifle and I have many rifles in many calibers.
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06-22-2010, 10:05 PM
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Same reason you buy a sports car instead of a Camry..
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06-22-2010, 11:05 PM
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15-22
well i guess you cant really explain it.something either turns your crank or it doesnt.I have a 10/22 abrowning t bolt a remington 552 and 2 .22 pistols I just like rimfires and this is a cool one.obviously alot of others feel the same.
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06-22-2010, 11:59 PM
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It's like owning a Jeep; and we Jeep owners know one thing.
It's a jeep thing, if I had to explain it, you wouldn't understand.
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06-23-2010, 12:01 AM
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I'm 63, own and shoot a lot of 45LC Western guns, and a old .300 Savage, the most fun has been my Colt Frontier .22. The cost of Long Colts is too much to do serious shooting. Saw the article in Guns Weapons Law Inforcement on the S&W 15/ 15-22 comparison and was hooked. Purchased and accessorized and am having a ball. IT LOOKS COOL.....
LPatten
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06-23-2010, 12:18 AM
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I resisted the urge to buy a 15-22. Then the S&W gods spoke and I listened.
Bought one 3 weeks ago. Took it out to a gravel pit along with my 10/22 and did a lot of blasting.
Put a red dot on it. Took 2 minutes. Didn't need a mounting base or rings. Also put a foregrip on it. Can't do that on a 10/22.
Let three other guys shoot it. Before they shot it they were ho-hum. But afterwards, well....... Two of them just bought their own.
Oh, and I just sold my 10/22.
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06-23-2010, 01:01 AM
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How could you not love this gun.I have fired many weapon platforms and this is as fun as any of them. It is accurate, my kids love it, and it is cool.
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06-23-2010, 01:53 AM
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I really like mine. Functions just like an AR, looks like one, and sure does look cool
Put a JP spring kit on it and really, really happy with it
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06-23-2010, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyb
lets see...whats the old saying...dont feed the trools?
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Troll? I'm no troll. I've been posting here for years. Just asked a question.
I think they look cool, too. I can even see myself getting one someday. I just think they are marketed to people who want to feel like Jack Bauer but can't afford an AR or the ammo to feed them.
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06-23-2010, 07:25 AM
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Good trigger time with the M16 system is good trigger time. My primary weapons system is the M4 Carbine and I've set my M&P15-22 to mimic it as closely as possible. They may be marketed to the Jack Bauer set, but that didn't stop me from buying one.
2000 rounds of .22LR at 3¢/shot cost me $60. Add $500 for the rifle and clone aimpoint (to mimic my M68 CCO) and total cost is $560. (Actually I have less than this in the system, but this is an example.)
Lake City M193 Ball (AKA 55gr for those in Rio Linda) runs 45¢ a round in bulk, or $900 for those same 2000 rounds down range. So far in this example, the M&P15-22 has saved me in excess of $300 for the same amount of front sight time. Shooting cheap Wolf? At 24¢/round the break-even point comes about the 2500 round mark.
-- Chuck
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06-23-2010, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbm6893
Troll? I'm no troll. I've been posting here for years. Just asked a question.
I think they look cool, too. I can even see myself getting one someday. I just think they are marketed to people who want to feel like Jack Bauer but can't afford an AR or the ammo to feed them.
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After reading the many polite, thoughtful and informed postings here I would have hoped that you'd have discovered that folks here do not fit what you think/thought above.
I have met several S&W Forum members and 15-22 owners-- some are weapons manufacturers, business executives, firearms collectors, dads and gramps, and first time gun owners. None of these fine folks suffer from some type of Bauer syndrome as you suggest are in the marketing crosshairs of S&W.
Whatever questions you may have had about the uses and popularity of the 15-22 have been answered quite well here.
Thread closed.
Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 06-23-2010 at 09:28 AM.
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223, 22lr, aimpoint, bull barrel, carbine, colt, eotech, lock, m16, military, model 16, remington, rimfire, ruger, savage, scope, sig arms, tactical, thompson, transition |
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