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  #1  
Old 06-24-2010, 10:01 PM
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Does the distance you mount a Red Dot type sight away from your eye change how well it aims? If so is it better to have it closer or further away from your eye?
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:49 PM
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Mount it in the middle of the rail above the Magazine area.
It helps in distributing the weight evenly.
Also you get faster target acquisition the further away the red dot is from your eye.
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Old 06-24-2010, 10:53 PM
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The further away from your eye the better... I don't know if id mount it on the front rail but chuck has done well with it there... but id atleast bridge the rail and the reciever with it..
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Old 06-24-2010, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BELT_FED View Post
but id atleast bridge the rail and the reciever with it..
Does this help with maintaining zero?
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:08 AM
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The reason to mount it further away is the same as wanting a longer sight radius between front and rear sights.

The further it is from your eye the better your eye will pick up smaller variations in the movement of the front of the gun. Having it close to your eye will allow the muzzle more wiggle room before your dot will pick up on it, and the dot will appear bigger to you and it will be a much more coarse aiming solution.

On the downside, moving the dot too far away will cause more blocking of your peripheral view since it's more of where your two eye pictures converge. Keeping it about midway down the rifle allows both eyes to view more of the target area.

For an example of this, keep both eyes open, focus on a far wall, and cover your dominant eye with your hand. Slowly move it away and notice that you can still see almost 100% of what's in front of you. As you start getting 1ft or more away your hand will begin blocking a chunk of your field of view and your eyes try to focus more on your hand.

So in short, you want the dot as far away from you as possible while still being before your eyes converge. If you're not worried about blocking anything, put it wherever it feels best.

Last edited by Rustpot; 06-25-2010 at 01:10 AM.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:31 AM
Dragon88 Dragon88 is offline
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A reflex sight (red dot) is not meant for precision aiming, it is meant for fast target acquisition.
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Old 06-25-2010, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
A reflex sight (red dot) is not meant for precision aiming, it is meant for fast target acquisition.
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's not meant for precision. Its precision may be more limited than iron sights or magnified optics, but there's no reason to further limit what you can do with a red dot. Many people use them to make precise shots.

And faster target acquisition is only one of the benefits. Target contrast (shooting black things with black sights is hard), low light shooting, and the ability for the dot to move with your eye are all great reasons to use one.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:27 AM
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This may help.

Where to mount a red dot.
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Old 06-25-2010, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Rustpot View Post
I wouldn't go so far as to say it's not meant for precision.
I would, and so would the designers of the reflex sights. Scopes and reflex sights are meant for two different types of shooting, medium- to long-range precision for the former and fast "CQB" shooting for the later. That cheapo red dot may look tacti-cool on your 15-22, but if you are trying to shoot groups with it from a bench you aren't using it for what it's designed for.

To the OP, a red dot should be mounted high and forward on the gun. You will know your position is correct if you can raise the rifle to the high ready and acquire your sight and target with no head movement, while keeping both eyes open for maximum situational awareness. If you must drop or shift your head before or between shots, your reflex sight is not properly positioned for you.
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Old 06-25-2010, 04:04 AM
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Thanks for all the info...I'm planning on using a 3-9X40 scope for the outdoor range and a 1x red dot for the indoor range. The indoor range for me will be about quick off-hand shooting and drills, not so much sniper precision and tight groups so I'm not too worried about it being super spot on. Just enough to have fun and hit reasonable sized targets off-hand quickly at 25 yards. I should have specified this in my OP but you guys told me what I need to know. Oops on my search fail c_jit haha
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Old 06-25-2010, 07:05 AM
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As far from your eye as you can mount it will make target acquisition and transition fast.

My M68 CCO has a 3 MOA dot, and covers 1.5" at 50 yards. The clone is 5 MOA. There's accuracy and there's accuracy. Practical accuracy only requires you to place all shots in a 9" circle in the center of the threat's chest. Cloverleaf groups only mean you can shoot faster. First acceptable sight picture then send a round (or two). Dot sights excel at that acceptable sight picture.

First iteration, 100 rounds, 90 seconds, 50 yards (parts box sight):



With older brother (much older!):



Current setup matches the "real" carbine best:



If you want X-ring, slow fire accuracy off the bench there are better sights including high powered optics with micro crosshairs. But I can probably put several rounds center of mass before you get a good stock weld and acquire the target with the telescopic sight.

-- Chuck
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Old 06-25-2010, 11:06 AM
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This red dot position works for me.
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Old 06-25-2010, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon88 View Post
I would, and so would the designers of the reflex sights. Scopes and reflex sights are meant for two different types of shooting, medium- to long-range precision for the former and fast "CQB" shooting for the later. That cheapo red dot may look tacti-cool on your 15-22, but if you are trying to shoot groups with it from a bench you aren't using it for what it's designed for.
This is incorrect information. I assume you're going off military doctrine, which is completely different than what most civilians go by. I think everyone can agree a reflex would be superior over irons at close range, but out to 100 yards, or even 200 yards with a good dot you're probably going to be shooting just as well as with iron sights, and faster.

If you're only using your dot for "CQB", which I assume is less than 50ft, you should really try to stretch out how far you can accurately shoot with it, you may be surprised.

Aimpoint also makes hunting and target dot sights that are very similar to the M3/M4 used by the military. Do you also assume these are designed for CQB? I can tell you for certain they are not.

Chuck S has the right idea. Slow down a little bit and you can achieve the same thing at 100 yards. Slow down more and those groups can be tightened significantly if you desire.
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Old 06-25-2010, 06:53 PM
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Assuming you have a decent quality red dot sight, my experience with accuracy has been directly related to dot size. I can be more accurate with a 2 MOA or 3 MOA (preferably 2) dot than I can with iron sights. 5 MOA dots are just too big for me. It might be the reverse for someone else. For ranges that require magnification for real accurate target shooting or hunting, I'll go with a good quality scope. Having said all that, probably three quarters of the rounds I send down range I use iron sights.
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Old 06-25-2010, 08:39 PM
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For me.... a red dot is better than iron sights in all circumstances other than a dead battery. Red dot allows my eyes to focus on the target only while still having a clear sight picture/dot. I can't do that with iron sights. Two eyes open fast target acquisition and with moving targets is the advantage of a red dot in use. I have mounted magnified optics on my 15-22 but really have found little use for them for the type shooting I do with it and the rifle's capability. My 15-22 is best suited for 50 yard and under plinking.

As far as trying to get a more precise aiming with a 5MOA dot-- using the top edge of the dot is a method I have used.

Last edited by ChattanoogaPhil; 06-26-2010 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:12 PM
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Thanks for the tip Phil on the 5 MOA dot. Right now I'm looking at a 4 MOA dot sight and haven't ordered it because I'm real hesitant about that big of a dot.
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:42 PM
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Which one ya looking at?
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:47 PM
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Vortex Strikefire red/green dot
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Old 06-27-2010, 08:48 AM
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LoneJackLarry here has one. Maybe he'll be lurking and offer a review. He's known for candid assessments.

I looked through one. The scope brightness adjustments are pretty cool. Didn't think much of the 2x twist on magnifier. Maybe it's just my aging eyes.
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Old 06-27-2010, 03:53 PM
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well said phil


Quote:
Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil View Post
For me.... a red dot is better than iron sights in all circumstances other than a dead battery. Red dot allows my eyes to focus on the target only while still having a clear sight picture/dot. I can't do that with iron sights. Two eyes open fast target acquisition and with moving targets is the advantage of a red dot in use. I have mounted magnified optics on my 15-22 but really have found little use for them for the type shooting I do with it and the rifle's capability. My 15-22 is best suited for 50 yard and under plinking.

As far as trying to get a more precise aiming with a 5MOA dot-- using the top edge of the dot is a method I have used.
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Old 01-13-2015, 11:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustpot View Post
This is incorrect information. I assume you're going off military doctrine, which is completely different than what most civilians go by. I think everyone can agree a reflex would be superior over irons at close range, but out to 100 yards, or even 200 yards with a good dot you're probably going to be shooting just as well as with iron sights, and faster.

If you're only using your dot for "CQB", which I assume is less than 50ft, you should really try to stretch out how far you can accurately shoot with it, you may be surprised.

Aimpoint also makes hunting and target dot sights that are very similar to the M3/M4 used by the military. Do you also assume these are designed for CQB? I can tell you for certain they are not.

Chuck S has the right idea. Slow down a little bit and you can achieve the same thing at 100 yards. Slow down more and those groups can be tightened significantly if you desire.
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Old 01-14-2015, 07:47 AM
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A reflex is one kind of red dot (a tube style is another) but the words aren't synonyms.

Of course if you want to shoot 100 yards plus, a scope is a better tool but that doesn't mean that you cannot shoot precision with a red dot, particularly up to 100 yards. It has more to do with the size of the dot in my opinion. Don't all the bullseye competitors use red dots?

Also, it is possible to shoot for precision without shooting bench rest. Once again, if you are going to shoot bench rest, then yes, a scope is a better tool.

For the OP, if you are shooting to obtain precision, then you want a smaller dot. I never use more than a 2 MOA dot. If you are shooting for plinking or speed, then a 4 MOA is a good size. These are just rules of thumb, there are many more options. It will be difficult to find a reflex style sight that is 2 MOA - you usually need to go with a tube for that.

Although red dots usually don't weigh much, I tend to keep them over the trigger area for balance and as a best compromise position based on what others have said. Since I use a tube style red dot on my 15-22, if I mount it out too far, my field of view is affected. I understand what Rustpot is saying about mounting it too close, however, I do have the same model tube style mounted closer to my eye on another gun for the increased field of view and I haven't noticed any detriment in accuracy for doing so in shooting up to 25 yards (I haven't tried shooting it further than that yet so it may not be a problem any further).

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