Hello All,
As I've only lurked here a couple times let me introduce myself and give you a little bit of my history before I go into the exploding rifle.
I joined a local police dept when I turned 21, and had already worked as an armed guard at a nuke power generation facility during one refueling shutdown. After that I got hired at Maine's only maximum security prison (at that time), and worked until I finished my 6 month probationary period and 6 more months to save up some cash. The pay there was exceptionally good. It was unionized and the state pay and benefits were great, and the double and a half overtime was always available (triple and a half OT on holiday weekends).
My problem was the only way to see my kids (125 miles away) was to have my bags packed and head out of town immediately so you weren't recalled to work overtime shifts. This was back before cell phones.
Anyway, I came home and was hired as a reserve officer part time for years, and was also a paramedic for 12 years and a volunteer hunter safety instructor for a couple years. Needless to say I had a pretty good idea of which end the bullet goes in.
I had just put on an EOTECH on my S&W M&P AR-15-22 on 18 Sept. and went out to sight it in. I was using Winchester Xpert HV ammo in it. On the 24th shot of a 25 round mag when I fired it felt like my hand around the magwell was blown off. Luckily I only had one small (1-2 mm) piece of brass shot into my thumb. My wife managed to get it out with surgical tweezers and forcepts.
Checking the chamber I find a case in the chamber with the head blown off but jammed solidly in place with the last round in the mag bent up and jammed into the magazine when it tried to chamber it. I had a hell of a time getting it out of the magazine. It felt to me like the bad round had a double powder charge, It was much louder than the other rounds. I'm glad it was only a 22, otherwise I might have lost a thumb.
I contacted S&W and Winchester/Olin the following Monday, and they both sent call tags for the ammo and weapon. The people at S&W seemed truly sorry and were going to find out the cause and let me know ASAP. The woman I dealt with at
Winchester/Olin was a real pain in the *ss, being really pissy, because the chances of a double powder charge was miniscule according to her (even though I find out later in the day that they have a recall (for possibly double charged rounds) going on, on the exact ammo, just different lot numbers.
Yesterday the big brown truck comes by with a package for me. It's the same exact box I sent it out in, with the same plastic grocerie bags I used for padding. If the boxes I sent out hadn't come back upside down in the box I'd have sworn they were never opened. The letter I sent to them and the index card with the little piece of brass I had to have removed from my thumb were still in there. There was absolutely no letter or anything to show they tested the ammo or anything. I mean ***? Did they even test the ammo? Did the just weigh them all and remove the double charged rounds? Is it even the same ammo I sent in? The lack of any reply makes me suspicious at the least. Oh, and I've checked my mail, and they haven't sent a reply thru the mail either. I'm going to call Winchester/Olin if I don't receive some kind of communication from them by Monday morning.
Dan

First and foremost I'm glad you're OK and you only took a small amount of the case. Always wear eye protection!

Sounds like it was more likely an out of battery accident. The exploded round had a missing piece blown out the side toward the rear? Hard to tell from your description.

From the design of the 15-22 a double charge wouldn't likely cause an explosion of the rifle, given the size of the chamber walls in relation to the size of a .22. I'd think the bolt would recoil hard and the case may deform or crack - did the shot of the accident have any recoil, or did it seem like everything shot out of the ejection port? The louder sound could be from a slightly open bolt.

Your rifle is still at S&W? I'd like to hear if there's ejector damage from an OOB. It's been an issue with the 15-22 guns, and the design of the AR15 trigger that allows the hammer to drop before the bolt is fully in battery. Do you know the first 3 letters of your serial number? DU**** are the newest, and earlier models will have a second letter further back in the alphabet.

It seemed to me most of the blast came down through the
magazine well. My thumb, besides taking a small piece of brass, was scorched. I'd washed my thumb off and put ice on it before I took pictures. I'll try to post some pictures with this reply. I suspect they might give more insight.
The rifle is still at S&W, if it's even there yet. It ended up being a bizarre time trying to get them (Fedex) to pick the damn rifle up. It was almost I week before I received the call tag from Smith, I had to make a second call before the tag arrived in my mail. I called Fedex for a pickup the next day.
The next day the Fedex driver called me from Ohio asking for street directions, funny almost since I'm in Maine. They wanted to reschedule pickup, but couldn't arrange it for several more days as they insisted I'd have to stay home the whole day until the driver showed up. Hopefully it's there now. If I remember correctly the serial # starts with DTU, and the ejector looked fine to me. I'm gonna try and attach a couple pictures now.
Dan

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The third picture looks like a perfect shear at the breach face, which would likely be an indication of an out of battery detonation.

The round was likely hung up either coming out of the magazine or into the chamber and the spring didn't have enough power to force the bolt fully shut.

If it was a double charge in a round fully seated the round was partially extracted before blowing out, which doesn't make sense to me.

Looks like an OOB to me. See below pic from an OOB with my 15-22.

How were you holding the rifle in order to get such a mark on your hand???

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Pretty (edited phil) bro. Glad you're all right

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Kill Em All

Sounds exactly like what mine did back in August. Same ammo too, although my extractor reached escape velocity, never to be seen again. More likely than not, it was simply an OOB det, and not a double charge in the cartridge. It sounded a lot louder to you since half of the gas came out the ejection port, much closer to your ears than when most of it comes out that muzzle 20+ inches away from them.

Dang....glad you're ok. Curious, is you 15-22 an older model?

Hey dan, (Edited phil) Glad you made it here and hope the guys here can help a little more. Saw your post over there and while I don't think it was the ammo, it's kinda weird that win wouldn't communicate more. Let me know when you get the rifle back. Interested to see what info, if any, they have and if they "update to latest specs". Take care.

Hey guys,

No creative spelling and no posting of other Forums. Thanks phil

Hi Dan and welcome to the forum from another Maniac. Sorry about your problem but if it's the rifle and not the ammo, SW will fix it and have it back to you quickly. I'd be a little concerned with Win's failure to communicate with you. You should give them a call and see what's up. Anyway, welcome again - you'll find many good, knowledgeable folks here. Have fun.

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... ed ...

I appreciate everyones comments and good wishes. I will post follow ups on everything as soon as I get it. Soneone asked how Icouldhavegotten my thumb in that position to get burned and take a piece of brass. It's simple, I'm left handed and wrap my forward hand around the mag well. At least I used to, I'll be putting a forward vertical grip on there like I have on my 5.45X39 AR

Dan: You stated that you washed your hand before photos- is that a burn? Looks like the size of a 22lr case. Were you shooting left-handed since burn is on your right thumb? Was the mag blown out of gun?? I can not tell from the photo- is that the base of the 22 case still in the chamber? Win response seems very, very strange, they generally want to know everything. Glad you had no other injuries.

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I BACK OUR BLUE

just noticed that I was on page one ( 1 ) of ( 2 ) and that you are left handed. Brain Fugue!!!!

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I BACK OUR BLUE

I recently bought a box of that ammo from Wally World. I fired appox half the box and had 8 FTF/FTE. I dont think I will be finishing them....

How are live rounds of possibly defective ammo properly disposed of?


Amen, brother. That is another reason why I like the forum.

.22LR can be soaked in a tub of water (old coffee can). The water will kill the power and primer rendering them unusable and mostly inert.

You can also pull the bullets and burn the powder off in a controlled manner.

My bad. Whats creative spelling?

Creative spelling is like a four letter word starting with $ instead of S to get by the profanity filter.

In general, if it's not a family friendly term then it's not welcome here.

I just tried shooting left handed, without any ammo, with my hand on the magwell like you said you did. If your thumb creeped aver the ejection port, it could have prevented the bolt from fully closing. But it is far enough forward for the trigger to release the hammer. BOOM, you have an out of battery detonation. Just like Phils pic, then the next bullet crushed the rest of the cartridge into the breech face and got jammed. Just a theory. Hope your thumb is better. Powder burns are very painful.

I can't believe after all these months, this is still possible on this rifle and hasn't been fixed. The OPs experience is yet another example of why the 15-22 should be recalled.

Along with how many others? It's a rimfire after all. OOB's can happen - even with the best ammo and cleaning, which is why lefty firing these things ain't exactly a good idea either. If it's any consolation to the OP, it could have been worse. No way I'll put my face on the same side as the port - rimfire or not.

If you notice, he said it was a DTU number, so it isn't a new rifle. It just sat on a shelf somewhere.

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Copyright Patrickmn

All us left handed people are just asking for trouble then?

I guess I should adapt to your superior right handed technique that I've been shunning for decades

That's exactly what recalls are for, to notify consumers and fix ALL of them, including old stock.

The fact that it's a rimfire doesn't change anything. Any firearm which can fire OOB is unsafe. So it's ok for the OP's thumb to get scorched and cut? What's next? It's ok for a kid to lose an eye from one of these things just because they are a lefty or because it's just a rimfire?

Concerning left handed shooting. I'm left handed and have shot left handed all of my life. A couple of years ago I had an ICD implanted and the surgeon said no more left handed rifle shooting. (It's in my left upper chest. So, I figured that was that.) Then the 15-22 came out and I had to have one. I bought my 15-22 and learned to shoot it right handed. Seemed very awkward at first but soon became accustomed to it. I didn't really think .22lr recoil would be a problem but I'm inclined to listen to my cardiologist in matters of the heart

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... ed ...

Yes.

Lefty is good for playing hockey. Sticking your face in the ejection port, not so good....

I shoot left handed because I'm very left eye dominant, not because I'm left handed. I can't sight well shooting righty and it feels very awkward. I may be taking extra risk but I also think tacticool is right. And I don't hold my right hand anywhere near the port.

Another 'lefty' here, just purchased my 15-22 and waiting for the 10 day period to end. Mine is a DUU serial number, which I believe is newer and should have the upgraded springs and components, correct? With the rifle broken down, I remember seeing blue springs around the hammer area. Thanks in advance for confirmation one way or the other.

John

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S&W15-22 RIA 1911
CZ75B SR9

yes that is correct, even some of the earlier serials had the same upgrades. DU*?

Good, at least I can fell better knowing that I didn't get an older 15-22 that hasn't been reworked. Maybe I'll still have to use a face shield when I take it out

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S&W15-22 RIA 1911
CZ75B SR9

I have a DUA rifle, and it has the blue spring upgrade and the newer magazine.

Mines did a OOB several times, from me dicking with the trigger. You can tell by measuring the empty case.

A complete recall of the M&P15-22 can't and won't happen unless and until there's a solution for the problem.

OOB firing is a function of the stock AR15 trigger group which can release the hammer before the bolt is fully closed (I think research here indicates at least 1/8" open); the angle of the aft face of the 15-22 bolt which allows the hammer to strike the firing pin before the bolt is closed; and anything that retards the cartridge from entering the chamber. You can only control the last factor and that includes a dirty chamber, dirty ammo, etc.

I've had one (1) with this rifle and she made the trip to S&W. Not had an OOB in nearly 2,000 rounds since then. I agressively polished the chamber and I don't pick up ammo off the ground and reload it (external lubrication on .22LR will pick up lots of dirt).

OOB happens on literally all the self-loading .22LR firearms I've owned. Is normally quite harmless, although startling when it happens. The 15-22 usually sheds its extractor when this happens.

-- Chuck

I received it back today, and for damn sure I'm not impressed. I specifically asked for the jammed casing to be returned, and it wasn't. I also asked that they tell me the cause of the problem, and they didn't.
I got a form saying it had been examined and adjusted, then says repaired & Updated to latest spec. Also says on the bottom to call if I have any questions, they better be expecting one. They also replaced my magazine with the new model. I had really hoped for better from them. I still have no idea if it was the ammo or the rifle. It wasn't like I was out to sue anyone, I just wanted to know what happened, like I said, I'm not impressed with them...
Dan

yeah that's crazy. i don't think they want you to ship ammo new or spent in the same case as the gun. I think i remember reading that somewhere. Might be why they didnt send it back. On a side note....be happy they fixed it.

Were the springs replaced with blue colored one's?

Yes, they were

dont really think anyone has gotten any answers in the whole time these guns have been out. We had retailers here trying to get answers as to why their guns were being returned and S&W wouldnt even tell them anything.

Find someone that has a bolt action rifle and give them to him/ her. Most .22 autos are partial to one ammo over another mine does not like the Winchester ammo either but digests the federal flawlessly. But I can take those Winchester rounds and shoot them all day in my CZ bolt action with great accuracy. As a matter of fact those same Winchester rounds shoot well in my Beretta Puma.

I had it happen with Whinchester ammo myself, did no damage to me or the gun but was a wake up. Have had about 1500 rounds of federal bulk go through it with no problems since then.

Ditto for me. I had the same thing happen to me with winchester ammo. Nothing but federal for us in our 1522s.

It is generally not recommended to grip the gun by the magazine when firing. You can shift the position of the mag causing feed problems

was out firing this past weekend and had the same thing happen, nobody was injured at all, and i am new to this rifle but have fired many M16A2's and M4's while in the Army, think it was OOB firing, casing stuck in chamber, so i dropped mag and broke rifle down to pull bolt out and then get casing out, however when i pulled the bolt out i had a small spring and pin fall onto the table i was working on, called S&W Monday still awaiting shipping label to send rifle in. i have no idea where the pin or bolt came out of on the bolt or some where in the upper reciever but think it was from bolt, also no idea if something else came off that i didn't see or find if it hit the table and rolled or fell off into the grass. guess we will see what S&W tells me. Just bought the rifle in Aug 12', seriel number starts with a DTZ, if that means anything to you all. if anyone on here has any idea please let me know.

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US Army (Ret) 83'-05'

Are your take down pins still attached to the lower? Did you
take your grip off?

Get ready for a wait, I sent mine wend andand they said about 10 days plus 3 days to ship it back

yes the take down pins are still attached to lwer, i did take the pistol grip off in preperation to send it back in and put the stock pistol grip back on it, both the springs were still in there.

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US Army (Ret) 83'-05'

yeh thats what i figured,, i am just hoping they figure out what happened to it and fix it, that would be more important to me, i don't get a chance to shoot very often anyways becuase of work schedule. did you return yours for the same reason? hope you get it back soon.

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US Army (Ret) 83'-05'

Jeff64,

Do you know and can you identify for US... what brand and load of ammo you were using at the time of the OOB detonation.?????

Thanks,
Paul

i can after i go home tonight and get the box out, i will post that as well, pretty sure remmington gold, but i will post all spoecifics tonight.

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US Army (Ret) 83'-05'

[QUOTE=Garand Man;136998741]Jeff64,

Do you know and can you identify for US... what brand and load of ammo you were using at the time of the OOB detonation.?????

Thanks,
Paul[/

It was Remington 22 thunderbolt, bought as bulk but the were in smaller 50 round packs inside larger box, 40 grain lead round nose, velocity 1256 at muzzle. I had shot approx 175 rounds of this prior to it happening.

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US Army (Ret) 83'-05'